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When PFS first started Josh right out made Philosophies not legal for PFS. Since then that has kind been de-emphasized but not really "Officially" made legal or at the least confusing if they are legal. The only philosophies I know are straight out legal with no confusion is Atheism and Pantheism (Additional Resources allow this).
Otherwise, characters who do not receive powers from a divine source may choose to be atheists or to have no deity at all.
I would like to see them added as legal for PFS play, we can start with adding it to the FAQ then a future update of the PFS Guide.
Philosophies are big part of the world of Golarion and it is sad that we can't fully embrace them in PFS play. There are ways around that (Archetypes, traits, prestige classes) or seeing the rules from another certain point of view to get you around it, but when when I want to list my faith I have to pick a deity, a Pantheon, none or atheist. I would rather get the confusion out of it and state straight out that Philosophies are legal.
The rules even allow classes that have to pick deities follow a philosophy:
Clerics who follow a philosophy must select a patron deity among the philosophy’s associated religions (they gain no additional benefits from adherence to a philosophy).
Also from Dragon Empires Gazetteer:
Nothing prevents Tians from being adherents of these philosophies and devoted worshipers of a god; nothing about such an arrangement is strange to them.
Of Course we don't have to allow every Philosophy to be legal, and any Philosophies that does not state associated religions should not be allowed by those that need to pick a Deity, but there are a bunch we should allow.
Here is a list to help Mike and John track them down.
Ones that should be Allowed to be Legal:
Atheism (Laws of Man) – Sources: Inner Sea World Guide, Faiths & Philosophies
Diabolism – Sources: Inner Sea World Guide
The Green Faith – Sources: Inner Sea World Guide, Faiths & Philosophies
Ichimeiyo – Sources: Dragon Empires Gazetteer, Faiths & Philosophies
Pao-Lung – Sources: Dragon Empires Gazetteer
The Prophecies of Kalistrade – Sources: Inner Sea World Guide, Faiths & Philosophies
Sangpotshi, the River of Life – Sources: Dragon Empires Gazetteer, Faiths & Philosophies
Tamashigo – Sources: Dragon Empires Gazetteer
Other Philosophies that are not as explicitly defined as those above but are part of Golarion:
Agnosticism
Common Rule
Shamanism (Juju, totemism, ancestor worship, etc.)
We can also open up other rules associated with Philosophies and make it more clear for those who are confused about taking a trait that says you need to be a follower of a Philosophy when then seem to be not allowed.
As an example you can allow the Customized Summon List for Green Faith followers from Wrath of the Righteous: Demon's Heresy.
One of the few Philosophies I would right out say we should not allow is The Whispering Way because it does not work well with PFS.
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As far as I know you can follow any philosophy you want in PFS Organized Play. You just can't reap any mechanical benefits from them.
The only restriction in place is the simple one that is setting specific:
Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity.
I've met alchemists who follow the Whispering Way, a monk following the prophecies of Kalistrade, and all kinds of general "my philosophy is..." characters.
edit: oh, and the prestige class "Prophet of Kalistrade" is already PFS legal.
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That would fit under "seeing the rules from another certain point of view to get you around it" and "There are ways around that (Archetypes, traits, prestige classes)".
The Guide also says..
Otherwise, characters who do not receive powers from a divine source may choose to be atheists or to have no deity at all.
So you can't put The Green Faith as your Religion because it is not atheists or to have no deity at all.
The other way is to say the a philosophy is not really a religion and it is fully separate from the Religion rules in the Guide and is just a bit a background for you character similar to picking your nation of origin. The only problem with that is the Inner Sea World guide connects the ideas of Philosophies and religions strongly with each other.
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I'm still not quite sure I know what you're driving at here Dragnmoon. Is your contention:
"I can make a character who follows the tenets of Victor Croissant, who teaches that all pastries should be buttery and flavorful. I seek to spread the way of Croissant across all Golarion."
because Croissantism is not a defined philosophy in Golarion?
But I can't make a character who follows the Green Faith because it is defined in Golarion?
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Umm no I am strictly talking golarion lore here.
Philosophies seem to fall under the rules of religion therefore are controlled by the rules in the guide on religion and additional resources, none of which allow philosophies.
If though they do not fall under they rules of religion as described in the guide then they are not controlled by that rule.
If the former then I would like them added to the additional resource because it is sad not to allow such a big part of golarion into PFS, if the later then well it does not matter really since then they are not restricted.
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Philosophies seem to fall under the rules of religion therefore are controlled by the rules in the guide on religion and additional resources, none of which allow philosophies.
Thats a couple of logical leaps which are questionable enough alone, but are completely undone by the fact that there are vanities for some of the philosophies.
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I think you can act however you want and claim to follow whatever you want as long as you aren't violating the tenants of your mechanically influenced alignment/religion. I have an inquisitor of Norgorber SHHHHH that carries around 100+ different holy symbols (wood holy symbols 1 gp no weight) and claims to follow whatever deity the person he is talking to follows. None of these other gods ever give me any benefit, so no one has ever given me a hard time about it. Most people I have run into (not that many, he is still pretty young) seem to think it is a fun and interesting concept.
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But there aren't any restrictions on backgrounds that don't have a mechanical advantage. You seem to be looking for a solution to a problem that you're making. There's no rule against having an atheist/maltheist/agnostic chracter and there are even legal feats you can take for that. They just can't be clerics, paladins, or inquisitors.
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But there aren't any restrictions on backgrounds that don't have a mechanical advantage. You seem to be looking for a solution to a problem that you're making. There's no rule against having an atheist/maltheist/agnostic chracter and there are even legal feats you can take for that. They just can't be clerics, paladins, or inquisitors.
You have part of that correct, but once again it is true if none of that fall under religion, which atheist is called out from the guide as does.
Here is the whole Rule in the guide, pay particular close attention to the last line which describes what you can do when you do not receive powers from a divine source and picking a deity.
Religion: Characters can elect to worship any deity listed in a table of gods in the Core Rulebook, The Inner Sea World Guide, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Gods and Magic, or any other source listed as an official Additional Resource. Characters may elect to worship an evil god, but must always be within one alignment step of their chosen deity. For clerics, this is an especially important choice, since the deity’s alignment determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy, a decision with significant tactical implications for the cleric and her allies. Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity. Druids, oracles, and rangers are the exception to this rule. The list is not exhaustive, and divine spellcasters of any future classes whose sources are added as additional resources will be required to choose a deity unless otherwise specified. Otherwise, characters who do not receive powers from a divine source may choose to be atheists or to have no deity at all.
Philosophies are always described in the same chapters as Religions, so it seems to me they would fall under the same restrictions as above which also happen to restrict those classes that don't gain any mechanical benefit from a deity, as stated in the last line.
And you keep bringing up Feats and vanities when I am not talking about that. I now there are legal Feats, Traits, Vanities that allow you to pick a philosophy, but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for them to be added as a legal choice in additional resources just like any deity.
That said, I could be wrong and philosophies don't fall under the restriction on what Deities that all classes have and it is just like any other background choice like picking a nation you come from. But as is because they are so strongly linked with religions in the sources they come from I don't see it that way without other guidance.
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I think you can act however you want and claim to follow whatever you want as long as you aren't violating the tenants of your mechanically influenced alignment/religion. I have an inquisitor of Norgorber SHHHHH that carries around 100+ different holy symbols (wood holy symbols 1 gp no weight) and claims to follow whatever deity the person he is talking to follows. None of these other gods ever give me any benefit, so no one has ever given me a hard time about it. Most people I have run into (not that many, he is still pretty young) seem to think it is a fun and interesting concept.
There is a difference between your character lying about your faith and actually being of a faith.
You can lie all you want assuming your class choice allows but you can't truly be an inquisitor of all those religions at once.
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There is a difference between your character lying about your faith and actually being of a faith.
-snip-
Only if your GM asks you to roll a bluff check.
However, I do understand your motivation to not risk this happening. Also, I do think that officially sanctioning philosophies would encourage more people to use them and flesh out their characters. But as it stands, if I was wanting to follow a philosophy, I would go ahead and do it without official sanction. I would think it a very rare GM that would say you are not allowed a bit of character developing fluff. I wouldn't want to sit with this type of GM for likely many other reasons.
EDIT: I am also inclined to think that many philosophers would be a little off put by being lumped in with religious leaders.
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I would think it a very rare GM that would say you are not allowed a bit of character developing fluff. I wouldn't want to sit with this type of GM for likely many other reasons.
I would not stop it either, the rules are just not clear enough on it. really all I want is a bit more clarity on the subject.
I would even allow a cleric to say they believe in the philosophy of The Green Faith as long as his actual faith was with either Erastil, Gozreh, or on of the Eldest. The inner sea world guide allows this. It is just not clear either way if the PFS guide allows this.
Edit: On your edit, well tell that to Paizo who always lumps them with religions when putting them into books. ;)
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It sounds like the line about atheists is what is really causing these ideas to bleed together. At the risk of sounding like I am trying to speak for a very large group of people, I will say that I don't really think it is very accurate to categorize atheism or agnosticism as a religion, however, I have argued under the pretense of it being one many times because here in the US religions have a privileged position in both law and reasoning for many people.
Edit on your edit on my edit: My son was trying to help me type so it took me awhile to finish. I am still upset that the drugs found under chapter Poisoner's Miscellany of some book I forget are not considered poisons for the purpose of the additional resources sheet.
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Philosophies are always described in the same chapters as Religions
That is a horribly tenuous connection.
And you keep bringing up Feats and vanities when I am not talking about that. I know there are legal Feats, Traits, Vanities that allow you to pick a philosophy
No, there aren't just traits that give you a philosophy, there are legal traits that require you to have a philosophy as pre requisites. That wouldn't be the case if your idea that you can't have a philosophy were true.
Example
Godless healing.
Green Faith Acolyte feat
Prophet of Kalistrade prestige class
I am looking for them to be added as a legal choice in additional resources just like any deity.
There's no need for this as there's already no restriction on it. There's no need to limit peoples role playing options and background to what additional resources they own, or to make people wait to have something found and added to additional resources.