Here's my interpretation of this...
The Warrens location effect kicks in "When you encounter a monster". So I think it would take effect when you encounter a summoned monster. Paizo might yet clarify or FAQ this, but until then I would play it like this.
When you evade a monster it gets a bit trickier... AFAIK, evading a card still means that you encountered it BUT it is neither defeated nor undefeated and none of the "Before the encounter" or "After the encounter" effects take place.
I'm a little shaky on this but it's based on user feedback rather than any official word from Paizo.
The reason I say this is because the Skeleton Horde says "Summon and encounter an Ancient Skeleton". If evading a card meant that it was not encountered at all then you would not be satisfying the requirements of the Skeleton Horde if you evaded the summoned skeleton.
This same wording is what makes me say that the Warrens triggers off the summoned monsters. You summoned and encountered a monster. The Warrens does something when you encounter a monster. So it triggers in this case.
I don't think there's any difference between using the Potion of Hiding and the Invisibility spell - is the wording different on them? (I don't have the cards with me atm)
Finally, based on the logic outlined above, if you naturally encounter a monster in the Warrens (e.g. through exploration) and evade that monster I would say that the Warrens' location effect still kicks in.
Does that make sense? If anything I've said seems to be contrary to any rules or rulings let me know and I'll rethink it!
There has already been a FAQ response to state that a summoned creature cannot trigger another summoned creature. Which in effect is what your situation is with the warrens even though its the location card doing the summoning.
FAQ answer:-
"What happens if a summoned creature would cause more
creatures to be summoned? Can there be an infinite number of
Ancient Skeleton henchmen in Black Fang's Dungeon?
Summoned cards cannot cause other cards to be summoned.
Resolution: On page 12 of the rulebook, under "Summoning and Adding Cards,"
add the following sentence to the end of the first paragraph: "Summoned cards
cannot cause other cards to be summoned.""
I don't think this is the same as summoning. The Warrens location effect does NOT summon cards, it adds them to location decks (which is a completely different mechanic).
Chief Technical Officer
|
When you evade a monster it gets a bit trickier... AFAIK, evading a card still means that you encountered it BUT it is neither defeated nor undefeated and none of the "Before the encounter" or "After the encounter" effects take place...
Correct. Evading is a step in Encountering a Card, so you have to encounter it to evade it.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
A character is chilling in the Warrens after having acquired a boon there. The next player is at another location (doesn't matter where) and encounters the skeleton horde, which makes everyone at an open location encounter a skeleton henchman.
Now, literally, the player at the Warrens has encountered a monster (the summoned henchman), and now must place yet another random monster on top of a random open location.
Correct.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
A related question is what if the player used a card (say potion of hiding) to evade? Would he still have had to place a random monster on a random open location? Would it matter if he had used an Invisibility spell instead of the potion of hiding?
Potion of Hiding lets you succeed at a Stealth check—it has nothing to do with evading anything, and can't be used in this situation.
The Invisibility spell does let you evade the Ancient Skeleton, but since you have still encountered it, the Warrens do still spawn a monster.
Thanks, Vic!
Okay, I'm confused...
Encountering a card has certain aspects that work with it.
This includes any "Before the encounter" and "After the encounter" effects.
From what I understood before, when you evade an encounter, you treat the card as if you never encountered it in the first place, and it's shuffled back in. You ignore the "Before..." and "After..." the encounter effects.
So if you evade a card and treat it as if you never encountered it, then how can encountering it affect locations that rely on that encounter?
Or am I just getting lost because "Encounter" has now taken on two different terminology meanings in the game, with one as "You deal with a card" and the other being "You find a card".
It seems like the cards that say "Before the encounter" and "After the encounter" sound technically right with the wording, but perhaps the name for 'finding a card' should be called something different instead of "Encountering."
I've noticed this has caused a few issues over on the BGG forums, and one of them linked to this threat, which seems to both say 'encountering' is this and 'encountering' is that, but having it be this and that, and card effects that just base on the word 'encounter' that kick in during this time but not that time is a bit confusing.
ENCOUNTERING A CARD
When you explore a location, flip over the top card of the location deck and put that card on top of that deck. If you have a power or card that lets you evade that card, you may immediately shuffle it back into the deck; it is neither defeated nor undefeated. If you do not evade it, first apply any effects that happen before the encounter. Then, if it’s a boon, you may try to acquire it for your deck; if it’s a bane, you must try to defeat it.
(emphasis mine)
Where are you getting "treat it as if you never encountered it"? Essentially, that's what you're doing (in terms of powers on the card) but it still counts as an encounter, as Vic said...
Evading is a step in Encountering a Card, so you have to encounter it to evade it.
However, I do see where you're coming from. How can a "before the encounter" power be avoided by evading, if evade is a step within that encounter (ie, the encounter has already started)? In this sense, "before the encounter" actually behaves more like "before the check" and similarly for "after" powers, but the card may not have a check, so it's tricky. Maybe you encounter the card before you encounter the boon/bane?
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
..."before the encounter" actually behaves more like "before the check" and similarly for "after" powers, but the card may not have a check, so it's tricky.
Correct. Sometimes you just need to do the thing that's clearest most of the time, and have rules that cover the exceptions. In this case, the distinction is irrelevant in every situation *other* than evading, and the rules make it clear that evading is part of an encounter that happens before "before the encounter". (And the revised encounter rules in the FAQ make it even *more* clear.)
The unofficial turn sequence docs make it clear too ;)