I am sorry for posting this here but the Carrion Crown boards do no generate much traffic. To any mods I thank you for your indulgence and if I get moved.
First a rules question: Does death ward protect from ability damage/drain done by many different types of undead? In particular the incorporeal ones.
Carrion Crown spoilers ahead.
This for the end of book 6 and the PCs are all 15th level.
The PCs need to reach the BBEG at the end of the whole AP who is at the top of the gallowspire and the book presumes that the PCs will enter the tower and fight their way up instead of simply flying or teleporting the top and skipping over all of the encounters in the book. It has prevented teleport with a teleport trap but this still allows dim door and other short range juants. To stop flying the AP has surrounded the Gallowspire with a huge cloud of incorporeal undead. My party did not see this as an out of bounds sign but instead sees a challenge.
I am okay with them doing this but I want to make it interesting witch means not to easy or to hard.
The plan is have the druid cast animal shapes to transform all of the PCs save the cleric into diminutive animals. The cleric (travel domain) will cast death ward, hide from undead, Undeath ward and dimension door twice to get to the top spire and earthquake to break in.
Instead of dealing with way to many to count undead in the cloud I am think that something along the lines of a swarm are the way to go.
My ideas so far.
Being inside the swarm will have two effects.
On your turn X creatures will pass through you and do what ever damage a hit from that creature type would do. No cirts and not misses. If you are hurt it will require a concentration check to cast. X is determined by your size where medium equals 1. This number doubles with each size increase and halves with each decrease. A fraction is a percent chance of being hit. Hide from undead will not help with this but ward from undeath will.
On the swarms turn it attacks every PC that it can detect. Each PC suffers 3 times the number of attacks that it would on its own turn. Hide from undeath and other froms of stealth can negate these attacks entirely. Again no crits and no misses. Undeath ward will help with this but some ranged or area attack might show and be able to effect the PCs.
To make this work I will need to make a list of all the incorporeal undead and what their attacks do.
On top of all of this I have declared that there about 100 creatures in the cloud that can attempt to get past an undeath ward.
Not sure how to work them in yet.
The could will have HP and if it is reduced to 0 then it only refills the space around the PCs instead of attack on its turn.
Not sure what the clouds stats should be. Saves and HP will be most important.
Help me make this cool. I want to let my PCs have shot since they are willing to use many high level spells to pull it off.
Huh. Yeah, this should go on the CC board, since this is a GM's only topic.
CC players KEEP OUT:
The entire cloud is composed of intelligent undead, each of whom would get a will save against Hide from Undead. That isn't work out very well.
Death Ward will protect against the wraiths and spectres, but it would NOT protect the ghosts, who deal something much weirder than negative energy damage.
I think it was recommended to use the stats for the ghost necromancers from Renchurch for some of the ghosts.
IIRC, there's also Nightwings hanging out in the cloud, and they'll come to fight anyone who tries to plow through.
So if they've got death wards, the cloud is largely just screaming, confusing terrain, with random things in it that don't care about death ward.
I want to say the cloud also counts as high velocity winds, but I could be wrong about that. It's been months since I ran book 6, and my PCs didn't try to go through the cloud.
I'd give each square of the cloud 68 HP, AC 19, Ref +7, and incorporeal - on par with an advanced spectre. Raise or lower the HP depending on how hard you want it to be to shred.
Earthquaking Gallowspire shouldn't actually do anything, but having it work would be disastrous.
Adivion's actually standing on the TOP of the tower; he isn't inside of it.
Adivion should notice the cloud reacting to intruders. The nightwings on the level right below him should probably join him as support for the fight. General Sey'lok might start making his way up, too; the General has a long hike ahead of him though.
Heh. The druid could blast HUGE swaths right through the cloud if he revved up a sunbeam spell.
So does deathward help against the wriath's con drain or a shadow's str damage? I am not sure those count as negative energy effects.
cloud stuff:
I know AA is on top of the Gallowspire and that the sheaf does not go that high. I am changing this in my adventure to make going through the cloud harder. Earthquake is for getting through the sheaf not the tower itself. AA is also going to be joined by the bone dragon to make the fight not a disappointing 1 vs many fight. My party is highly optimized.
I forgot about covering the area with a Mortuary Tempest. They will take 1 acid damage every round and lightning has chance of striking every round. The bolts will not actually hurt undead since the electric is negated by the unholy.
Unfortunately my PCs will just use cloak of winds or freedom of movement to deal with the wind. Still it is more spells they need to use. They may also decide to use control weather to let the sunshine down on the cloud. This would be find because then AA would know they are coming and be able to prep easily.
I do not want to give each square stats instead I am trying to represent the cloud with environmental effects.
Basically even if you cloud is not aware of you you get hit some just by the number of undead flying through your space. If it is aware you get hit more based on you size. A table will will randomly determine what kind of undead struck you. I will also need to find out what AoE and ranged attacks show up with incorporeal undead and and add those as well.
Instead of one chance the cloud will get a chance every round to defeat whatever stealth the PCs use.
I also want the give the PCs a chance to avoid the cloud attacks for a round if they can do enough damage as if to an incorporeal swarm. Channeling will work very well and area spell will be normal but weapon attacks will be quartered. Not sure if I want the HP of the cloud to constant or very round by round to represent thick and thin spots.
Should I have PCs get take more incidental hits if they move?
Undeath ward can not be cast in the cloud unless you clear out the area and it will break if you move at all due to undead in all directions. I am think that if you use dimensional travel and have the ward up it will grant a surprise round to every one.
The nightwings will be a nice addition and unlike the other undead they will follow them into the tower.
Huh, my party never used undeath ward. Just looked it up. Hmmm. Okay, that's why they never used it...
Continuing on:
Undeath ward would keep out anything in that cloud short of a nightwing, but it's going to collapse the moment the person with it tries to move forward - undeath ward pops like a bubble if you try to bulldoze with it. Dim dooring into the cloud with it up probably counts as attempted bulldozing.
Hide from undead should also immediately fail, though for different reasons - the entire cloud is composed of intelligent undead, and they ALL get a save against hide from undead - even if some fail, others will be able to point out the intruders. Considering that wraiths get lifesense (60 ft blindsight vs. the living), trying to go as small animals isn't going to help in the slightest once the party is close.
Re: death ward - a shadow's touch is called out as a negative energy effect, so the spell would grant immunity. The wraith is weirder - it deals negative energy damage with the con drain as an untyped rider. I ran it as death ward stopping the con drain because it stopped the initial negative energy damage.
I don't think I'd allow control weather to work - the ramped up weather is a supernatural effect that reflects the land reacting to the Carrion Crown elixir. I could see making it an opposed check against a L20 caster, though...
Most incorporeal undead don't have AoE, but the ghosts...
Huh. Here's a fairly horrible thing I did to my own players in CC (we took the campaign to L20). You might find this useful, if your players are hard enough =D
GHOST TROOP:
Ghost Troop
CR 17, XP 102,400
CE Medium undead (augmented humanoid, incorporeal, troop)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +37
Defense
AC 26, touch 26, flat-footed 20 (+5 Dex, +1 dodge, +10 deflection)
hp 310 (20d8+220)
Fort +16, Ref +13, Will +14
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +4, incorporeal, rejuvenation, troop; Immune undead traits
Offense
Speed fly 30 ft. (perfect)
Melee troop attack (20d6, Fort. DC 32 half)
20 ft face, 5 ft reach
Special Attacks frightful moan, horrifying visage, malevolence
Statistics
Str —, Dex 20, Con —, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 30
Base Atk +15; CMB +20; CMD 40
Feats Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Toughness, Mobility, Improved Iron Reflexes, Skill Focus (Perception), Ability Focus (attack, moan, visage, malevolence, etc.), Fly-by Attack
Skills Fly +28, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Perception +37, Sense Motive +10, Stealth +9; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception, +8 Stealth
Languages Common
Corrupting Gaze – Move Action – Gaze – 6d10 damage + 1d4 Charisma (DC 32 negate charisma damage), all within 30 feet.
Telekinesis – swift Action – Caster Level 20, DC 32
Frightful Moan – Swift Action – All living creatures within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a DC 32 Will save or become panicked for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic mind-affecting fear effect. A creature that successfully saves against the moan cannot be affected by the same ghost's moan for 24 hours.
Malevolence (Su): - swift action - Once per round, the ghost troop can try to merge into any creatures it is contact with, similar to magic jar at 20th level. A possessed creature is taken over by a standard ghost (see Bestiary). The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save DC 32. A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same ghost's malevolence for 24 hours.
Draining Touch – Standard Action – 1d4 damage to all ability scores to all creatures in melee with the troop; heal 5 HP for every point inflicted.
Formatting errors probably occurred; I apologize in advance for that.
My ghost troops usually used telekinesis to yank someone into it, and then followed up with draining touch or the troop attack.
Can you explain what the ghost troop is its claims medium but yet has 20ft face i was thinking it was like a platoon of ghost troops but im not sure now
Part of the reason I like this plan is that we are all ready for the campaign to be over and skipping all the stuff in the gallowspire hurries this up. Also the plan uses many high level spell so resources will still be used.
Well the plan that they have formulated goes something like this.
Cast deathward, hide from undead and undeath ward. Then Dim door part of the way to top of the Gallowspire. He can bring 5 of the other 7 beings with him two will have to be in an the bag of holding. For diminutive creatures this is not a problem.
Dim door does count as bull dozing but my players are think this warrants a surprise round in the cloud. With this the cleric will cast Dim door again and get close to the to the top of the Gallowspire. Once there he will channel with a move action and hope this enough to clear space for undeath ward. Once that is done he will cast earthquake and the rest of the party will resume their natural forms. On round 4 they will enter the the Gallowspire and try and engage AA.
If I treat the cloud as many individuals then it actually becomes easier for them. The vast majority of will shadows or wraiths and their variants. Their saves are low enough that only a very high roll will allow them to detect the cleric and his AC is high enough (ghost armor) that only a nat 20 will hit.
By treating it as a swarm or an environmental effect then some it might get through and I do not have to say have more powerful undead just happen to be in the area. I can require concentration checks to cast and let the sorc and druid help clear the way with the AoO Spells if they want to risk not being diminutive and hiding on the clerics person. Heck they could all just hide in a bag of holding and get out as a move action once undeath ward is up near the top.
Can you explain what the ghost troop is its claims medium but yet has 20ft face i was thinking it was like a platoon of ghost troops but im not sure now
It's medium because the ghosts inside of it are medium. It then hgas 20 ft face because it's a squad of the buggers, and because it's a troop it doesn't have to be in a 4x4sqare - it can spread out into, say, a 16x1 line, or a thicker 8x2 row, etc.
Swarms work similarly with the size - you note the size of the component critter, since whether it's fine or diminutive or tiny changes how it interacts with weapons. The face section is where you find out how much ground the swarm actually covers.
Swarms are one of those things that scare the heck out of PCs but I am not sure how this one will work out.
Looks like there are 5 critters out there that can breach a undeath ward. The Banshee and the Dread wraith will be easy to deal with due to sun issues but the nemhain and dybbuk. The wall of force that a nemhain can use would force the party to stay out longer in the swarm.
The grim reaper will not engage but he will scare the crap out of them with his mere presence.
I know that I could advance some other type or use templates but I do not want to do that much work.
