The other side of druids. Savage

[Abugaj]

Hello,

I'm trying to make a character archetype that will be more relevant to druids in form. such as gaining armor and weapons, along with leveling. I need some balancing help. I don't want to loose the versatility of the druid, but I see many spells as being caster oriented and not needed as I'm making a druid to not be based so much around this casting. I willing to give up additional spells or move things around. Please provided advice and feel free to tell me what you think. If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them. Be aware that I am in the military and I am not always able to be online on a regular basis and might not be able to respond to you in a reasonable amount of time and I apologize for this in advance.

My work in progress as follows:

please help. I'm trying to create and archetype for a druid that specializes around shape shifting "wild shape" and will allow the druid to take on more of a melee class roll but still keep many of the versatility of casting druid. here is what I can come up with so far. Please share or make any comments or suggestions. I'd like to make this happen.

Druid: Pathfinder

Archetype: Feral/Savage

0 level spells
create water
detect magic
detect poison
guidance
know direction
mending
purify food & water
read magic
resistance
stabilize
virtue

1st level spells
calm animals
charm animal
detect animals or plants
detect snares and pits
endure elements
entangle
goodberry
hide from animals
jump
longstrider
pass w/out trace
speak with animals
cure light wounds
produce flame

2nd level spells
animal messenger
animal trance
barkskin
bear's endurance
bull's strength
cat's grace
delay poison
fog cloud
gust of wind
hold animal
owl's wisdom
resist energy
soften earth & stone
spider climb
tree shape
warp wood
wood shape
*shillelagh

3rd level spells
dominate animal
melt into stone
neutralize poison
plant growth
poison
protection from energy
quench
remove disease
sleet storm
snare
speak with plants
spike growth
stone shape
water breathing
wind wall
cure moderate wounds
call lighting

4th level spells
antiplant shell
blight
control water
dispel magic
freedom of movement
giant vermin
reincarnate
repel vermin
rusting grasp
scrying
spike stones
*restoration, lesser
flame strike

5th level spells
atonement
awaken
baleful polymorph
commune with nature
control winds
death ward
hallow
stoneskin
transmute mud to rock
transmute rock to mud
tree stride
unhallow
wall of thorns
*ice storm

6th level spells
antilife shell
bear's endurance, mass
bull's strength, mass
cats' grace, mass
dispel magic, greater
find path
word of recall
fire seeds
heal
ironwood
move earth
owl's wisdom, mass
repel wood
spellstaff
stone tell
transport via plants
wall of stone
*cure serious wounds
cure light wounds, mass

7th level spells
control weather
scrying, greater
transmute metal to wood
true seeing
*call lightning storm

8th level spells
animal shapes
earthquake
finger of death
repel metal or stone
reverse gravity

9th level spells
anipathy
foresight
regenerate
shapechange
sympathy
*cure critical wounds
*cure moderate wounds, mass
*fire storm

Level
1st *Savage Form I, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy
2nd woodland stride, wild shape (1/day)
3rd trackless step
4th resist nature's lure, *savage form II
5th
6th Wild shape (2/day)
7th
8th *savage form III
9th venom immunity
10th Wild shape (3/day)
11th
12th Wild shape (4/day)
13th *Wild Shape Master
14th *savage form IV
15th timeless body
16th Wild shape (5/day)
17th *Heart of the Wild
18th Wild shape (6/day)
19th
20th *savage form V

spells per day

0-3, 1st-1
0-4, 1st-1
0-4, 1st-2 0=4 from now on
1st-2, 2nd-1
1st-2, 2nd-1, 3rd-1
1st-3, 2nd-1, 3rd-1
1st-3, 2nd-1, 3rd-1, 4th-1 1st=3 from now on
2nd-2, 3rd-1, 4th-1
2nd-2, 3rd-1, 4th-1, 5th-1
2nd-2, 3rd-2, 4th-1, 5th-1 2nd=2 from now on
3rd-2, 4th-1, 5th-1, 6th-1
3rd-2, 4th-2, 5th-1, 6th-1 3rd=2 from now on
4th-2, 5th-1, 6th-1, 7th-1
4th-2, 5th-2, 6th-1, 7th-1 4th=2 form now on
5th-2, 6th-1, 7th-1, 8th-1
5th-2, 6th-2, 7th-1, 8th-1 5th=2 from now on
6th-2, 7th-1, 8th-1, 9th-1
6th-2, 7th-2, 8th-1, 9th-1 6th=2 form now on
7th-2, 8th-2, 9th-1
7th-2, 8th-2, 9th-2

**All other states remain the same as the base druid**

*Savage Form

*Savage Form - Works just as Wild Shape but with no time limit and is considered an at will spell. Beast must be chosen prior to accepting these spells and can not be changed after. I.E. works like Mythic Wild Shape. In addition only one magical effect can be cast onto the druid at any time while in Savage Form and only one casted magical effect will transition into and out of Savage Form.

*Savage Form I
allows the druid to pick one affinity beast to use with Savage form functioning like beast shape I

*Savage Form II
allows an additional form to Savage Form I and continues to function like beast shape II

*Savage Form III
allows an additional form to Savage Form II and now functions like beast shape III

*Savage Form IV
allows an additional form to Savage Form III

*Savage Form V
allows an additional form to Savage form IV and allows one form to be a magical beast like with beast shape IV

*Hear of The Wild

*Heart of The Wild – You add your PC ability modifiers to the Savage Form beast's ability score, You also add your armor type to your Savage Form beast's AC and receive any additional Natural armor as that beast. Only one magical effect found on the armor can be added to the Savage Form beast's AC (I.E. Barkskin). Any additional modifiers from armor is added into the Savage Form beast's AC at a ½ reduced rate (I.E. +2 armor becomes +1). This magical effect and modifier rate also applied to one weapon (I.E +1 nature damage and +2 normal damage becomes +1).

Armor Type Bonus'

None +0
Light +1
Medium +2
Heavy +1 due to restrictive movement

*Wild Shape Master

allows the druid to control his Wild Shape polymorph with incredible precision and may now take on the hybrid form of the PC and Savage Form beast. This allows the druid to play as a lycanthrope of beast from only. (aka were[animal]) This does not allow the use of hand weapons, does not grant damage reduction, nor does the druid carry the lycanthrope disease because it is not a true lycanthrope. This also allows the druid while in Savage form the ability to speak.

*Explanation – A druid that is not gifted in the art of nature magic (but still able to perform spells), and is gifted in the art of Wild Shape. When he polymorph's his items (mainly armor and weapon) now morphy's with him and is displayed on the creature in a limited form. He has an even more limited number of spell that he can cast and many spells he is now unable to cast or finds the spell too difficult to cast. I have done what I can to do what I think is balancing. what do you have to say?

[Redchigh]

I was hoping this was a build that got 'Aspect of the beast's and rage powers...

Early shapeshifting is broken. Aspect of the beast, however, could be viable as an extremely early (level 1, maybe, and multiple abilities) could work...

Instead of shifting, getting multiple natural attacks and rage could have potential as a more animal than humanoid Druid...

[moophe]

Cool looking class Abugaj!

My friend and I have struggled for the longest time in creating something similar, we went with creating a "savage" cleric domain for simplicity.

Anywho, that's neither here nor there!

Wild shape is pretty powerful at level 1! Not sure how to balance that, maybe dropping spell-casting altogether?

Redchigh has a great idea with "Aspect of the Beast," you could make it an at will or similar ability from say level 1 to 4, then graduate to wild shape.

Just some ideas! Thanks for posting your class writeup!

[Abugaj]

Thank you for the quick feedback. Please check back again and I'll keep working on this for everyone.

Once again thanks for the feedback. I'll work on correcting the "wildshape" type abilities at lower levers because the consensus seems to say it's broken. I'll look at possibly dropping spell-casting all together to see where that takes me and propose a second archetype/"savage" Cleric domain (with your permission)[@Moophe] in trade for or with this "Aspect of the Beast" to see if I can also provide a more dynamic melee Archetype for Druids and see if that could possibly be viable. As I am very new to this (so sorry for any disappointments)[@Redchigh] I'll do my research and continue to work on it. I'll see what I can do and post more as time permits. Please let me know what specific things you liked and didn't like. Things you thought were broken and others you thought were very viable. This will assist me in honing this down to something everyone could find acceptable and playable.

Example:
Personally I liked my Wild Shape Master and thought this was viable at higher lvl's. I also liked how I was able to incorporate armor and weapons into the polymophed form. This makes having armor and weapons besides for casting useful (for a druid who doesn't like to be in his natural form) with Heart of the Wild

I'm not sure how I feel about elimiating so many spells, and moving many of them to higher level spell placement along with reducing the number of spells in half. - I think some adjustment still needs to be done.

I do like how this is so hard and complicated to find a good balance with everything to provide what everyone is looking for in such a dynamic class as Druid. Trying to find the right balance of spells to "morphing" to fit a distinct play type other than one that is already present in the game.

Thanks once again!

[Sindakka]

Hello Abugaj!

Firstly, I like where you started, as I've had similar ideas in the past (borrowing from other sources, of course).

Second, I'd like to get into some issues I see:
1.) Wild Shape at level 1? Uh-oh. Seems too advantageous, especially since a lot of multiclass characters may "dip in" to get quick access. Give small buffs early, such as the ability to "shape" certain features (ie, improved natural armor, a bite attack, gills, etc), so as to give the class some theme early on, without giving away too much at level 1.

2.) Armor Proficiency seem too unnatural for a shapeshifter such as this, I'd drop it; the character'll have access to thick hide, natural scales... why would he walk around in "plate" ? Or with a shield, for that matter?

3.) what does he have access to from the core class? can he still spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally? Does he still have his companion? Same proficiency regarding weapons, shields?

[Abugaj]

Sindakka wrote:

Hello Abugaj!

Firstly, I like where you started, as I've had similar ideas in the past (borrowing from other sources, of course).

Second, I'd like to get into some issues I see:
1.) Wild Shape at level 1? Uh-oh. Seems too advantageous, especially since a lot of multiclass characters may "dip in" to get quick access. Give small buffs early, such as the ability to "shape" certain features (ie, improved natural armor, a bite attack, gills, etc), so as to give the class some theme early on, without giving away too much at level 1.

2.) Armor Proficiency seem too unnatural for a shapeshifter such as this, I'd drop it; the character'll have access to thick hide, natural scales... why would he walk around in "plate" ? Or with a shield, for that matter?

3.) what does he have access to from the core class? can he still spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally? Does he still have his companion? Same proficiency regarding weapons, shields?

*******************

Thanks for the INPUT!

1.) I do see the error in my ways for having a form early on. I will be correcting this. I've already got some great idea's that I will be posting here shortly to correct this. Thanks to the advice I've gotten so far, this should be good.

2.)I understand what you are getting at for the the armor and weapons. These both were going to be restrictive because this type of druid really has no needed for either. However, when out of form he will be needed something if not just for show but to cover him when needed, or per-say there is an aura not allowing the druid to poly-morph. On top of this I thought it would be nice that all the time in collecting armor and weapons that benefit the druid in human form have some type of appearance or reflect in each druid differently allowing differentiation and scaling as the druid levels and gets better armor and weapons. so that all of his gold spending and questing are worthwhile.

3.) In Balancing I've taken away all of the spells that grant "companions" for this type of druid will be the force to recon with instead of all the "tricks" he has up his sleeve. In retrospect I will probably be taking away even more spells to curb the spell casting and allow more gearing toward the melee aspect.

Please keep bouncing me Idea's I'll come up with more shortly hang with me. As for right now what you see is what you get for what i'm presenting. Anything currently not mentioned here as a change to the class will be held to all original content provided by the Core Rulebook. (I.E. nothing else was change from the original druid and still remains the same if not mentioned above :) )

[Abugaj]

Forgot to mention that with the build I was working for there would be no companion.

[Abugaj]

-Thoughts and Notes:

*Aspect Druid:(similar to shaman archetypes) [blanket style]
Basic Aspect- lvl 1, Gain's the Senses of the said animal (limited to beast shape I animals)[available once time per day for 1 hour per character lvl]{spell does count as an action}

Advanced Aspect- lvl 4, Gain's in addition to "Basic Aspect" the Skills of the said animal are also gained [available one additional time per day]

Master Aspect- lvl 8, Gain's in addition to "Advanced Aspect" the top stat of the said animal increases the character stat by 2 if there are two equal stats then each gain only 1 [available one additional time per day]

Second Nature- lvl 12, Gain the special attack of the said animal (I.E. Rage)[special ability is only usable once per aspect change] {available one additional time per day - spell no longer counts as an action}
#penalties include reduced magical abilities.

______________________________
*Affinity Druid: (similar to Feral Child)
Nature's Blessing- Gain's wild shape at characters lvl +2 with chosen affinity animal and characters lvl -2 if it is not.

Spirit's Blessing- lvl 12, your affinity animal for wild shape is now a chosen magical animal.
#affinity druid's companion must be the chosen affinity animal - if companion is chosen then the companion gains Nature's blessing in stead of the druid
#penalties include reduced magical abilities and weapon restrictions

______________________________
*Primal Druid (combination Feral Child, something new, and Shaman)
Basic Aspect at lvl 1
Advanced Aspect at lvl 4
Savage form I at lvl 6 - replaces Basic and Advanced Aspect (affinity animal)
Wild shape at lvl 7 - Massively restricted.
Heart of the wild at lvl 8 - or Nature's Blessing (Both)?
Savage form II at lvl 10
Savage form III at lvl 12
Savage form IV at lvl 14
Savage form V at lvl 16 - or Spirit's Blessing (Both)?
Second Nature at lvl 18
Master of Wild Shape at lvl 20
#Penalties include greatly reduced magical abilities along with many armor and weapon restrictions - no companion

Just working stuff out in my head and seeing what people think.