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Snake style lets you use an Immediate Action to replace your AC with a Sense Motive check's results.
Snake Fang lets you make an AoO against a missed attack and then, if you hit with that AoO, use an Immediate Action to make an additional attack.
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Except you only get one Immediate Action, so you can't use the benefit of both feats at the same time.
That seems dumb. Was this intentional?
^That.
You can boost your AC if you need to, and smack the guy who missed you once.
Or you can trust your regular AC, and hit the poor shmuck that hits you TWICE.
I think yes. You have to chose if you want to be defensive or aggrasive. I find it one of the more powerfull styles.
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The way I always envisioned it working is you get attacked, either way you have options:
1. They hit you, you use your immediate to activate snake style
2. They miss you, you use your immediate to activate snake fang
One of the problems I had with Crane Wing/Riposte was nothing ever hit me so I rarely used my Riposte ability. Now with the change I am probably going to look more closely at Snake Style, I like it for a number of reasons and would have switched it out if I had been keeping sense motive up.
Or you could allow the Synad race from Complete Psionic: they get 2 Swift actions a rd, thus two immediate actions available (the extra one has have to be mental one but choosing to switch AC with Sense Motive sense mental action to me).
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I believe you are looking at it in the wrong perspective.
Yes you CAN use a swift action to either increase(hopefully) your AC vs one attack, or you can use a swift action to just strike back after you land an attack. Either way, you get an extra attack for that swift action. Whenever you score a critical hit with your unarmed strike you can spend an immediate action to take a 5-foot step even if you have otherwise moved this round.
What's far more important, is that ANY melee that misses, you get to return as an AoO. You can treat your US as Piercing. You gain +4 bonus to CMD against trip combat maneuvers and on Acrobatics checks and saving throws to avoid being knocked prone. You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks. While using the Snake Style feat, whenever you score a critical threat with your unarmed strike, you can make a Sense Motive check in place of the attack roll to confirm the critical hit.
I'd say, you're focusing on the wrong part of the Style Suite. The basis, is all of those things I've put in bold. The extra options, like using your sense motive as AC vs one attack, taking an extra attack after landing an AoO, and the 5foot step after you land a crit. These are just nice variable options, that are great under certain circumstances on top of the already amazing perks of this style.
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I'll thank you to keep your remarks to yourself, we wouldn't want the design team to remember this particular feat chain, would we? ;)I believe you are looking at it in the wrong perspective.
Yes you CAN use a swift action to either increase(hopefully) your AC vs one attack, or you can use a swift action to just strike back after you land an attack. Either way, you get an extra attack for that swift action. Whenever you score a critical hit with your unarmed strike you can spend an immediate action to take a 5-foot step even if you have otherwise moved this round.
What's far more important, is that ANY melee that misses, you get to return as an AoO. You can treat your US as Piercing. You gain +4 bonus to CMD against trip combat maneuvers and on Acrobatics checks and saving throws to avoid being knocked prone. You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks. While using the Snake Style feat, whenever you score a critical threat with your unarmed strike, you can make a Sense Motive check in place of the attack roll to confirm the critical hit.
I'd say, you're focusing on the wrong part of the Style Suite. The basis, is all of those things I've put in bold. The extra options, like using your sense motive as AC vs one attack, taking an extra attack after landing an AoO, and the 5foot step after you land a crit. These are just nice variable options, that are great under certain circumstances on top of the already amazing perks of this style.
Hahahaha. Oh my. I hope they don't see this then.. I'd hate for the one of 3 remaining Great style's to be nerfed as well.
Maybe it's just me then.
I tend to place a premium on feats though, so the idea that after taking a 3-feat-long chain but only getting to see 2 of them function correctly at a time seems... meh. Especially when they're "designed to work together." (ie: They're related - It's not like taking two totally unrelated feats from two different books that don't work together.)
Maybe it's just me then.
I tend to place a premium on feats though, so the idea that after taking a 3-feat-long chain but only getting to see 2 of them function correctly at a time seems... meh. Especially when they're "designed to work together." (ie: They're related - It's not like taking two totally unrelated feats from two different books that don't work together.)
That's why you take Master of Many Styles to pick up IUS and skip the filler feat in the style, and use your Swift Actions on other things. Snake Fang is worth taking just for the Attack of Opportunity every time they miss you. Get Greater Magic Fang if you need an enhancement bonus. Get a +0 Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists if you're Dex based. You could conceivably use this as any melee fighter, even a plate-wearing falchionier, provided you had enough Dex to make it worth the trouble.
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i've always liked snake style more then crane style. now that crane is nerfed i'm scared they will f*@& with snake next.
I doubt it. One thing about Crane Wing was it was 100%. Snake Style is a roll off, and the higher their attack the harder it is.
the best thing about snake style is that it changes your touch ac. this is huge for fighting spell casters and other nasty things that would bypass crane wing or normal AC.
Maybe it's just me then.
I tend to place a premium on feats though, so the idea that after taking a 3-feat-long chain but only getting to see 2 of them function correctly at a time seems... meh. Especially when they're "designed to work together." (ie: They're related - It's not like taking two totally unrelated feats from two different books that don't work together.)
even just the first feat is a fighters wet dream. a swift action to activate then ghosts, casters, vampires, ect... all miss that fighters touch ac with just a small focus cost. a trait, 1 skill per level, and a skill focus and you could easily have a touch ac equal to 22+ 1d20
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even just the first feat is a fighters wet dream. a swift action to activate then ghosts, casters, vampires, ect... all miss that fighters touch ac with just a small focus cost. a trait, 1 skill per level, and a skill focus and you could easily have a touch ac equal to 22+ 1d20
To be fair, a trait, half your class skill points and 2 feats isn't exactly a 'small' investment, and they wouldn't be hitting 22 until 12th level plus usually (+1 trait, +3 favoured, +6 Skill Focus +12 skill points) as a fighter is unlikely to have much in the way of a Wisdom modifier.
That said, it's still an absolutely great one for a number of builds, but they do need to put some effort into it.
You can use Snake Style and Snake Fang in the same round. You can't use their optional abilities at the same time.
Exactly. Snake Style is wholly compatable with HALF the function of Snake Fang.
If you want to use the other half of Snake Fang, then you choose to give up Snake Style's ability for that round.People like to have their cake and eat it too, not having to make trade-offs, but the Feats DO work together.
Even if they didn't, and the entire function of both Feats were mutually exclusive, having the choice of both is still valid design.
So you rule out Tiger because high Str, but picked Dragon even though its entire purpose is to increase how much Str damage you do?
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You might consider not picking Feats just because their name is "[X] Animal Style" and instead look for WHATEVER Feat(s) that are mechanically most in line with your understanding of real world Kung Fu styles. Whether or not those are "Style Feats" doesn't matter, that doesn't stop you describing your character as exemplifying Dragon Style Kung Fu or whatever.
Also, the closest analogue to Leopard you're likely to find is Panther.
If you want a Dex based martial artist MoMS, Panther/Snake is good both thematically and mechanically.
*Shrugs*
Your character. Just giving you alternatives that aren't akin to taking your Feat and setting it on fire, for all the good it'll do you.
Warpriest of Irori with Snake Style would be cool.