So, a while back I attempted to build a character that is as cha-based as possible. I'm re-attempting this as an oradin/cultist of archea. I'll be trying to get the most out of CHA, as well as the highest cha possible (with a human, to prevent shenanigans). Here's what I got.
Race: Human
Class: Paladin 2/Oracle (nautre) 5/Mystery cultist 10
Stats: (25 pts)
Str: 8 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 18+2 racial
Traits (magical knack (oracle), fate's favored)
Paladin:
1 Weapon FInesse, Noble scion (war)
2
Oracle:
3 Dervish Dance, Revelation (nature's whispers)
4
5 Celestial obediance (arshea), Revelation (friend to the animal)
6
7 Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Mystery Cultist:
8
9 Nemesis (story) ( +2 con)
10
11 Radiant charge
12
13 Blessed (story)
14
15 Reward of life
16
17 ?
So, some silliness: I prefer dex-builds to str ones, so that choice is arbitrary. Reflex, To hit & damage go off dex, but AC (through dex (nature's whispers) & armor (celestial boon)) saves (divine grace) and initiative (noble scion) going to cha. I wish this character could be entirely cha-based, but it cant be perfect. S, any ideas?
I prefer Dex to Str builds as well, but if you're replacing Dex with Cha then you're just paying the Dex feat taxes for no reason.
I could switch to a stength build, but I'll never have the bab & str to use power attack decently. Any other ideas? I still prefer the dex, but I dont want to dump it to 8 and lower my already low ref save.
Alternative:
Str: 14 Dex: 10 COn: 14 Int: 8 Wis: 10 Cha: 18+2
Feats:
1 Power attack
2
3 Furious focus
...
I'd probably start polymoprhing eventually with that.
Not so sure about archeologist; for one, the bonuses of master performer/ Gmaster performer apply IF you're using performance on others. I'm not fond of the archeologist, if only because they only get 4+cha rounds, and no new rounds each level.
Maybe Lunar mystery instead? Prophetic Armor revelation gives CHA to AC and Reflex (sacrificing Nature's CHA to CMD).
Glix, 2 levels of paladin gives Cha to all saves, making half of Prophetic Armor redundant.
I thought they'd stack since the revelation's bonus was in place of DEX. I can see what that might not be true, though.
I'm pretty sure they would stack, but nature's whispers goes to CMD; and considering the low strength & dex of this character, it NEEDS decent CMD. I dont want to get grappled.
I recall a developer saying that you shouldn't be able to apply the same stat modifier twice. I'm fairly sure he's also taken pains to make it clear that he's not the rules guy, but I still frown on such shenanigans because I would have anyway and bandying about developer comments makes me feel more justified in having baseless opinions.
I have also seen references to that limitation. I forgot. Or got too lazy to remember. :)
If it works at your table, however, then maybe it's still worth it if you can find a feasible means of grapple mitigation (a spell, a magic item, etc.).
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I'm not 100 & sure, because it depends on type; in the case of divine grace (an untyped bonus, just like cha to reflex becomes) would not stack. However, you get a cha bonus to AC from natures whispers (equivalent to dex) AND an ARMOR bonus to AC from "flawless form", the second celestial boon of archea.
Flawless Form (Su) Gain an armor bonus equal to your
Charisma modifier (minimum +1) whenever you wear
revealing clothing and no armor.
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Here's an alternate SUPERCHA character build. This one combines several CHA builds in ways that mesh well.
One level of Dual Cursed Heavens Oracle gives the wonderful Misfortune revelation and access to super-powered Colorspray through Awesome Display. Take Command and Murderous Command as Oracle spells, those never get old.
One level of Cleric gives Variant Channeling (Rulership). Unfortunately, you must worship the Archdevil Dispater - yuck - or accept a lesser Variant Channel. Variant Channeling (Rulership) is a large area daze-and-damage effect, comparable to a Dazing Fireball, with 8+ uses per day, usable as a Move action with Quick Channel. You must have the Animal domain, probably via the Separatist archetype.
Then Sylvan Sorcerer all the way. With Boon Companion you have a full level Animal Companion from level 3 onward. Get the Awesome Display revelation for your Sorcerer Colorsprays.
This abomination of a build eats BBEG encounters for breakfast. Here's what you do:
1. Protect your entire party from critical hits and failed saving throws with Misfortune
2. Battlefield control like a wizard tossing weak Dazing Fireballs.
3. Force the BBEG to make three tough saving throws versus your Save-or-Suck spells in one round. You cover all three save types: Will, Reflex, and Fortitude.
4. Full-level Animal Companion doing it's own thing. You even have unusual buff options for your AC, including Enlarge Person.
Of course, this build will flounder in high level play. Color Spray ceases to be viable around level 10 or 12, and it will be downhill from there.
Interesting madga. I will admit I dont like mixing spellcasting classes, but it's interesting.
Supercha is evolving in my mind. Originaly, supercha was an idea... but Supercha is not actually a bad name for a character. I'm going to refine the concept based on everybodie's ideas to create the most charismatic woman in pathfinder. Here's a basic build (with an image that works well with the haunted curse).
One level of Cleric gives Variant Channeling (Rulership).
So, Ultimate Magic definitely lists Rulership as a domain insofar as Variant Channeling goes, but I can't find the domain. Anywhere!
Some easy places I looked:
Archives of Nethys
PFSRD
PathfinderWiki
Then I checked the FAQ to see if the phantom domain's existence has been addressed.
Help?
It's under Variant Channeling, not Domains. Here.
Ah, since most of them are also domains, I (falsely) remembered that the variant channels were tied to domains rather than portfolios. I reread it. All better now.
The Swashbuckler class from the ACG is very heavily CHA based.
You could start Dervish of Dawn Bard 1 (free Dervish Dance at level 1) and then Swashbuckler. Not sure how it would interface with Oracle, but I just put up a Bard 1 / Magus 8 / Swashbuckler 11 build that works pretty well, so it's definitely possible.
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I actually played this character through 7 levels. Was fun to play, but distinctly over-powered. I held way back, in order to maximize enjoyment at the table, and still got 'Overpowered' complaints.
The thing that bugged GMs was the ability to take down most BBEGs too easily. The odds of anything making three consecutive high-DC saving throws (in one round!) are not good.
My favorite way to destroy BBEGs and other worthy foes is with a flurry of AoOs. From behind many martial allies this PC Commands the foe to 'Approach'. This gives each martial ally an AoO, it wastes the BBEG's turn, and it puts the foe in an awful position going forward. Best of all, your allies do the hard work, you just help them along. This method has proven about 90% effective in actual field tests.
My favorite way to destroy BBEGs and other worthy foes is with a flurry of AoOs.
What BBEG mean? I looked so far and I didn't even found any other acronym...
I recall a developer saying that you shouldn't be able to apply the same stat modifier twice. I'm fairly sure he's also taken pains to make it clear that he's not the rules guy, but I still frown on such shenanigans because I would have anyway and bandying about developer comments makes me feel more justified in having baseless opinions.James Jacobs posted that about Fury fall and doulbe dex. I then asked about Paldin and Oracle and he said it worked.
Really? I'd love to have that confirmed; can you link to that post?
while not so cha-centric as the above builds, i did make a rather scary bardadin:
(bard 1/paladin 2/bard 17)
*scion of humanity alt. racial trait taken
str 16, dex 32 (7+2r), con 20 (5), int 16, wis 14 (-2), cha 28 (10+2r)
+5 dex (level), +6 all (belt/headband), +4 dex/cha (book/wish)
traits: ??? / ???
feats
1 - weapon finesse, dervish dance*
3 - arcane strike
5 - skill focus (perform [oratory])
7 - eldritch heritage (imperious 1)
9 - lunge
11 - improved eldritch heritage (imperious 3)
13 - dimensional agility
15 - dimensional assault
17 - dimensional dervish
19 - greater eldritch heritage (imperious 15)
bardic music (DC 28): countersong, distraction, fascinate (8 creatures), suggestion, soothing performance, frightening tune, mass suggestion, deadly performance, inspire competence (+5 [competence]);
inspire courage* (+8 saves vs charm/fear, +8 attack/damage [morale])
inspire greatness* (+4 HD (d10), +4 attack, +2 fort [competence])
inspire heroics* (+8 saves [morale], +8 AC [dodge])
versatile performance
2 - dance (acrobatics, fly)
6 - oratory (diplomacy, sense motive)
10 - percussion (handle animal, intimidate)
14 - act (bluff, disguise)
18 - [any, all bases covered]
spells
bard
0 (infinite)- detect magic, read magic, light, ghost sound, prestidigitation, message
1 (8/day)- unseen servant, cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, feather fall, vanish, moment of greatness
2 (7/day)- bladed dash, blindness/deafness, blur, allegro, heroism, invisibility
3 (7/day)- dispel magic, good hope, haste, see invisibility, tiny hut
4 (6/day)- dimension door, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, shadow conjuration, hold monster
5 (6/day)- shadowbard, greater bladed dash, greater dispel magic, shadow evocation
6 (2/day)- eyebite, waves of extacy
and bard:
(oracle 1/bard 19)
str 16, dex 28 (10+2r), con 20 (5), int 16, wis 16 (-2r), cha 26 (5+2r)
dex/dex/dex/dex/wis (level), +6 all (belt/headband), +4 dex/cha, +1 wis (book/wish)
traits: fortune's favored / nimble fingers
revelations: sidestep secret, lore master
rogue talents:
5 - trap spotter
9 - fast stealth
13* - skill mastery (acrobatics, disable device, [face skill], perception, sense motive, stealth)
17* - improved evasion
feats
1 - weapon finesse
3 - dervish dance
5 - lingering performance
7 - extra revelation (lore master)
9 - arcane strike
11 - dimensional agility
13 - dimensional assault
15 - dimensional dervish
17 - dimensional savant
19 - improved critical
spells
bard
0 (infinite)- detect magic, read magic, light, ghost sound, prestidigitation, message
1 (7/day)- unseen servant, cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, feather fall, vanish, silent image
2 (7/day)- blindness/deafness, heroism, invisibility, ???, ???, ???
3 (7/day)- dispel magic, good hope, haste, ???, ???, ???
4 (7/day)- dimension door, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, shadow conjuration, hold monster
5 (6/day)- greater heroism, greater bladed dash, greater dispel magic, shadow evocation, shadowbard
6 (4/day)- eyebite, waves of extacy, ???, ???
oracle
0 (infinite)- create water, purify food/drink, detect poison, guidance
1 (5/day)- protection from evil, tap inner beauty
One level of Dual Cursed Heavens Oracle gives the wonderful Misfortune revelation and access to super-powered Colorspray through Awesome Display. Take Command and Murderous Command as Oracle spells, those never get old.
How did you get both Revelations if the Archetype give you the option to take another one? Maybe the Extra Revelation Feat?
One level of Cleric gives Variant Channeling (Rulership). Unfortunately, you must worship the Archdevil Dispater - yuck - or accept a lesser Variant Channel. Variant Channeling (Rulership) is a large area daze-and-damage effect, comparable to a Dazing Fireball, with 8+ uses per day, usable as a Move action with Quick Channel. You must have the Animal domain, probably via the Separatist archetype.
I guess that would be 1d6 dazzling damage 8+ times daily. Why Animal Domain? I mean that Speak with Animals and Calm Animals a few times/day, are the only things that you get from that level, aside of the Separatist 2nd domain.
Then Sylvan Sorcerer all the way. With Boon Companion you have a full level Animal Companion from level 3 onward.
It has a little mistake: 1 Oracle - 1 Cleric - 3 Druid = -5 on your level, and Boon Companion has 4 level higher, so you could get at lvl 20 a lvl 19 companion. The Cleric could help at lvl 4, but this won't happen, or it does?
Get the Awesome Display revelation for your Sorcerer Colorsprays.
Where I can find the way to make this trick?
This abomination of a build eats BBEG encounters for breakfast. Here's what you do:
1. Protect your entire party from critical hits and failed saving throws with Misfortune
2. Battlefield control like a wizard tossing weak Dazing Fireballs.
Misfortune is an inmediate action, so I guess that you can only affect 1 people/round. Or I'm wrong?
3. Force the BBEG to make three tough saving throws versus your Save-or-Suck spells in one round. You cover all three save types: Will, Reflex, and Fortitude.
4. Full-level Animal Companion doing it's own thing. You even have unusual buff options for your AC, including Enlarge Person.Of course, this build will flounder in high level play. Color Spray ceases to be viable around level 10 or 12, and it will be downhill from there.
How 3 ST so quickly?
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How did you get both Revelations if the Archetype give you the option to take another one? Maybe the Extra Revelation Feat?
Bought a Ring of Revelation. The extra revelation feats works, too, if you're not already feat-starved.
I guess that would be 1d6 dazzling damage 8+ times daily.
Actually, it's only 1D6/2, or about 1D3, but close enough. The damage doesn't matter, the daze effect is huge. Also, one can now get the same effect from the deities Horus and Ra, both of whom are Lawful Neutral.
Why Animal Domain? I mean that Speak with Animals and Calm Animals a few times/day, are the only things that you get from that level, aside of the Separatist 2nd domain.
A level of Cleric with Animal domain counts as a level of Druid for purposes of having an Animal Companion.
Then Sylvan Sorcerer all the way. With Boon Companion you have a full level Animal Companion from level 3 onward.
It has a little mistake: 1 Oracle - 1 Cleric - 3 Druid = -5 on your level, and Boon Companion has 4 level higher, so you could get at lvl 20 a lvl 19 companion. The Cleric could help at lvl 4, but this won't happen, or it does?
That's why choose the animal domain. The Cleric level stacks with Sorcerer levels. This happens even at level 1, no need to wait until level 4. The DEVS ruled clearly on this, and it's also RAW. E.g. A PC takes 2 levels of Druid and one level of Ranger. The Animal Companion will perform at Level 3.
Get the Awesome Display revelation for your Sorcerer Colorsprays.
Where I can find the way to make this trick?
It's the Awesome Display revelation. XigXag did the weird thing of getting this Revelation as an Oracle, but actually casting Color Spray as a Sorcerer.
Misfortune is an immediate action, so I guess that you can only affect 1 people/round. Or I'm wrong?
Correct!
Really Thanks!!!
I was figuring out about an Oracle, Sorcerer + Dragon Disciple, to get 42 on STR and +54 AC and still casting 7th level spells.
It's better to do Awesome Display or better go with Nature or Lore and get CHA to AC instead of DEX?
I will try to post it here.
The Iroran Paladin archetype gets to add his Charisma to his Dex bonus to AC when wearing light or no armor, sort of like the monk bonus (though capped at one point per class level, which makes it a bit less dip friendly). But even a one level dip in Oracle could let you add 2x Cha to AC and Cha to all your saves. The Irrepresible trait also lets you use Cha for Will saves vs charm/compulsion (so most of the worst saves) instead of Wis, letting you double dip there.
You could run, say, an Iroran Paladin/Oracle/Swashbuckler build, pick up something like Osyluth's Guile (which fits for a swashbuckler build) and potentially add up to 4x your Cha to your AC. Could be a fun build for a defensively-oriented halfling, who'd have absurdly high saves and AC.
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With the release of the ACG the super charisma character doesn't need any Paladin levels. There is a feat which gives you Charisma bonus to all saves available at level 5. The straight Lunar/Lore Oracle with Noble Scion of War and that feat runs spell casting, AC, all saves and Initiative off Charisma. The Lore Oracle can also run all Knowledge skills off Charisma as well.
Please, give more details.
Kobolds get to use CHA for CON with the Kobold Confidence feat. Might wanna look into that.