Hey guys, was wondering if there was a way to viably build a whip wielding character, was looking at the Pain Taster, but any advice is appreciated.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pain-taste r
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I think Bard or Lore Warden Fighter is your best bet. Bards are, IIRC, the only class that gets whip proficiency for free, but the BAB and feat requirements for whips are so severe that you're practically forced to go fighter if you want to use a whip AND have stuff like Power Attack or Improved Trip/Improved Disarm. Here are the whip feats you'll be wanting:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip)
Remember: half elves can get this for free.
EDIT: Also note that Inquisitors or Clerics of Calistria, CN goddess of lust and vengeance, get proficiency with the Whip.
Weapon Focus (Whip)
Whip Mastery (Combat)
Your superior expertise with this weapon does not provoke attacks of opportunity from your enemies.
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus (whip), base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when attacking with a whip. You can deal lethal damage with a whip, although you can still deal nonlethal damage when you want. Further, you can deal damage with a whip despite a creature’s armor bonus or natural armor bonus.
Improved Whip Mastery (Combat)
You are able to entangle opponents with the coils of your whip.
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus (whip), Whip Mastery, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: While wielding a whip, you threaten the area of your natural reach plus 5 feet. You can also use a whip to grasp an unattended Small or Tiny object within your whip’s reach and pull that object into your square. To do so, you must hit AC 10 with a melee touch attack. Further, you can use the whip to grasp onto an object within your whip’s reach, using 5 feet of your whip as if it were a grappling hook, allowing you to use the rest of your whip to swing on like a rope. As a free action, you can release the object your whip is grasping, but you cannot use the whip to attack while the whip is grasping an object.
Greater Whip Mastery (Combat)
You can use a whip to make combat maneuvers with ease.
Prerequisite: Improved Whip Mastery, Weapon Focus (whip), Whip Mastery, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: You are so quick with your whip that you never drop it due to a failed disarm or trip combat maneuver attempt. Further, you gain the ability to grapple using your whip. To do so, use the normal grapple rules with the following changes. [omitted]
Thanks, my only concern is the very low damage output, is there a way to mitigate that?
Personally I consider Greater Whip Mastery more than is really necessary unless you are really drivel to try and grapple with a whip.
Way I see it, whips are best off being used for trip attacks, and that means you really want improved trip and greater trip, so there's two more feats. Then there's the fact that being able to do damage with a whip might be nice, and you're into focus/specialization/power attack.
It really does come down to being a fighter favored weapon. Lore Wardens with the CMB/CMD boost makes them a good thing to build on. Then a neat trick you can pull which is good in mid level is felling smash which means you can, say, charge someone and power attack them with the whip, then you get an auto trip attempt, which if it succeeds means you get another an AOO because of greater trip. This works like a sort of poor man's pounce, but even better in a way since both attacks are at full BAB. Of course the problem is so many critters get immune to trip (from size or flying).
What's nice is the pain eater gets Cruelty (sneak attack) but is always active on lethal whip damage, which they get to inflict for free.
Thanks, my only concern is the very low damage output, is there a way to mitigate that?
Weapon specialization
greater weapon specializationweapon training
power attack
The damage die is always weak, but you can get the static damage bonus up to a respectable level.
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Thanks, my only concern is the very low damage output, is there a way to mitigate that?
Not really. Check with your DM whether you can wield it two-handed, but the fact of the matter is that a whip is never going to deal as much damage as two-handing a greatsword or falchion. Your best bet is relying on a class bonus, like Sneak Attack, Smite Evil, Favored Enemy, or Bane to grant you damage. (EDIT: Weapon Specialization definitely helps for fighters.) IMO, though, as a whip user you'll probably be focused on combat maneuvers more than anything else.
If all you want is a viable character that happens to use a whip, go Weapon Finesse halfling Bard with the Helpful trait. In combat, you'll be able to grant an ally within 15 feet +4 to attack or AC using Aid Another, as well as boosting all allies with perform and spells. Out of combat, you'll be able to do just about anything, from scout to party face to arcane caster to knowledge machine. Best part? You don't have to invest a single feat. Just make sure you get Improved Unarmed Strike or wear a cestus or something so that you threaten the squares around you and can flank, and remember that your whip attacks will provoke.
Whips tend to be all-or-nothing - as in, invest all your feats in it, or you'll be doing nothing. It can definitely be fun, though, especially if you make your other trait Prehensile Whip. Good luck!
Thanks, my only concern is the very low damage output, is there a way to mitigate that?
Weapon specialization
greater weapon specialization
weapon training
power attackThe damage die is always weak, but you can get the static damage bonus up to a respectable level.
True, so fighter would be the preferable class, half-elf preferably for free weapon prof.?
That Pain Taster is a bit too demanding in garbage feats to be an acceptable option IMO. I think that getting 2d6 damage extra really isn't that big a bonus, but as always YMMV.
Thanks, my only concern is the very low damage output, is there a way to mitigate that?Not really. Check with your DM whether you can wield it two-handed, but the fact of the matter is that a whip is never going to deal as much damage as two-handing a greatsword or falchion. Your best bet is relying on a class bonus, like Sneak Attack, Smite Evil, Favored Enemy, or Bane to grant you damage. (EDIT: Weapon Specialization definitely helps for fighters.) IMO, though, as a whip user you'll probably be focused on combat maneuvers more than anything else.
If all you want is a viable character that happens to use a whip, go Weapon Finesse halfling Bard with the Helpful trait. In combat, you'll be able to grant an ally within 15 feet +4 to attack or AC using Aid Another, as well as boosting all allies with perform and spells. Out of combat, you'll be able to do just about anything, from scout to party face to arcane caster to knowledge machine. Best part? You don't have to invest a single feat. Just make sure you get Improved Unarmed Strike or wear a cestus or something so that you threaten the squares around you and can flank, and remember that your whip attacks will provoke.
Whips tend to be all-or-nothing - as in, invest all your feats in it, or you'll be doing nothing. It can definitely be fun, though, especially if you make your other trait Prehensile Whip. Good luck!
Take a dip in monk I suppose
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Thanks, my only concern is the very low damage output, is there a way to mitigate that?
Sneak Attack, and ways to get extra attacks.
Back in the days of the 3.0 Lasher prestige class, I had an idea for a high-Dexterity fighter/rogue who dual-wielded whips - I even pictured some aristocratic Errol Flynn/Lord Byron/Belmont clan-type who'd replaced both his hands with whips, and could use them more adroitly than most people could use their natural hands - grabbing drinks from the other side of the bar, decimating thugs who mistook him for easy prey, slapping serving wenches' buttocks from the other side of the room and making it look like someone else did it, etc.
Actually once you have whip mastery, you can damage armored targets.
magus(magi?) might do okay with them (possibly the black blade AT), on account of them being one-handed, slashing, reach weapons you can spellstrike/combat through. use a scorpion whip to avoid the trap that is the "Deadly" enchant.
Actually once you have whip mastery, you can damage armored targets.But until then no damage. Why risk it when there's already an alternative
dude. scorpion whip. damages armored targets from level 1. whip mastery only removes the AoOs you provoke at that point.
Actually once you have whip mastery, you can damage armored targets.But until then no damage. Why risk it when there's already an alternative
I tend to start characters at level 3 if I can find a way, so I don't really run into the problem. As mentioned, the scorpion whip is a way around this, though one nice thing about standard whips is you have the option of doing non lethal damage if necessary without any penalty.
I tend to start characters at level 3 if I can find a way, so I don't really run into the problem. As mentioned, the scorpion whip is a way around this, though one nice thing about standard whips is you have the option of doing non lethal damage if necessary without any penalty.Actually once you have whip mastery, you can damage armored targets.But until then no damage. Why risk it when there's already an alternative
dont want the nonlethal penalty? Bam. You even get a bonus to damage.
sample build:
"SIMON BELMONT"
stats:
any, int and dex at least 13
traits:
-blade of mercy
-???
feats:
1 - Weapon Focus (Whip), Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
2 - Combat Expertise, Whip Mastery
3 - Improved Trip
5 - Furious Focus, ???*
7 - Imp. Whip Mastery
8 - ???*
9 - Greater Trip
11 - Gtr. Whip Mastery, ???*
13 - Lunge
14 - ???*
15 - ???
17 - ???, ???*
19 - ???
20 - ???*
* - bonus teamwork feat
swap greater trip and lunge if you feel necessary.
wield a scorpion whip, enjoy reach. no clue what teamwork feats to grab, there's lots of fun ones.
If you make the whip a Ki Focus or Ki intensifying weapon and play a monk you can use your special abilities through it (such as stunning fist etc...).
And I think there was also a feat or ability that allows you to use your unarmed strike damage instead of weapon damage, but I am not sure that option exists for a whip.
The most important one you missed; taking EWP(Whip). Also, Beastmaster doesn't give you proficiency, it just makes it count as a martial weapon so you still need blanket martial proficiency (ie. Fighter) to count as being proficient with the whip.Ways to get proficiency:
Magus Kensai or Spire Defender Alternate classes
Bard
Half-elf ancestral weapon
Clerics and Inquisitors whose god has it as a favored weapon
Half-orcs with the beastmaster or city raised alternate racial traitDid I miss anything?
Surely one would be taking fighter anyway given the feat intensity?
To actually crack at a build:
As to the prestige class mentioned itself, I point to the Shaman's Apprentice (replaces Intimidating) alternate race feature. Free endurance feat. Still, although both Beastmaster and City Raised offer a free whip proficiency (if going fighter), I'd personally. advise city raised. The normal weapon familiarity is no use to you in this venture and ferocity is rather nice (or can be swapped for some nice features).
Since the earliest one can enter the prestige class is level 7. We have 3 feat slots gained via character progression and 4 bonus combat feats;
1: Diehard
1*: Power Attack
2*: Whip Mastery
3: Great Fortitude
4*: Weapon Specialization
5: Improved Whip Mastery
6*: Weapon Focus, perhaps?
And of course, in lieu of the above (probably terrible) feat line: Focus on Strength. A whip isn't a light weapon, it can be two-handed, furthering output (though don't ask me how one uses a whip effectively in two hands).
Ways to get proficiency:
Magus Kensai or Spire Defender Alternate classes
Bard
Half-elf ancestral weapon
Clerics and Inquisitors whose god has it as a favored weapon
Half-orcs with the beastmaster or city raised alternate racial traitDid I miss anything?
A half-orc with the Skulking Slayer Rogue class also gets proficiency.
