I was wondering, when you calculate subtiers, do you add all of the levels and then divide by 4 for the normal basic party, or add all levels and then divide by number of players, and then look from there?
Most of the games I will DM will fall with having 5-6-7 players, so I need to be sure to give them the proper challenge and not mess things up.
So 6-7 level 1 players is APL1 ? Seems like a total walk in the park for a tier 1-2 or level 1 scenario/module.
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So 6-7 level 1 players is APL1 ? Seems like a total walk in the park for a tier 1-2 or level 1 scenario/module.
Correct, but be aware that from Season 4 onwards, scenarios are written with an assumption of a 6-person party, so they should generally provide a more appropriate challenge.
Is there a different way of ruling it for season 0-3 then? Most of the games I will be running, at least at lower levels, will come from there.
Still a cakewalk for anyone remotely building their characters right...I'l try looking more in season 4 then.
Am I sure that is still the case for season 0-3 adventures? Yes I am. Those adventures were written (and balanced) for an assumed party size of four players.
Unless I'm missing something, there is no APL adjustment for season 0-3 scenarios? That would make any group of 5 or more cakewalk the thing.
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Unless I'm missing something, there is no APL adjustment for season 0-3 scenarios? That would make any group of 5 or more cakewalk the thing.
The adjustment is that if you are between subtiers, you must play up. So two level 2's and three level 3's must play in subtier 4-5.
If you have six players, play Crypt of the Everflame at level 1. Not overly challenging, but not a cakewalk. When they finish, they will be level 2.
Besides, who cares if things are really easy for a party of level 1's?
Well it's alright, because level 1's can sometimes turn around and succeed/fail like it's nothing. But when most of the players you see are optimized, then when you have the generic monsters and baddies, they slump in 1-2 hits from a 18str greatsword wielding fighter. I will keep it in mind for subtier calculating however.
So Seasons 0-3, no APL change from 4 to 7 players, but level average forced to play to the upper subtier echelon.
Seasons 4-5 also has no APL change, and when in the middle of 2 subtiers, they can choose whichever they want to play in (at the cost of less or more loot, challenge, gold and all).
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Here is the relevant text:
In order to determine which subtier a mixed-level group
of PCs must play in, calculate the group’s average party
level (APL). Divide the total number of character levels by
the number of characters in the party. You should always
round to the nearest whole number.Starting with Season 4, scenarios are designed for six
characters and contain instructions on how to adjust the
scenario for four-character parties. When the APL of a table
is between two subtiers (like APL 3 for a Tier 1–5 scenario),
a party of four characters must play the lower tier without
any adjustments for party size. A party of five to seven
characters whose APL is between two subtiers must play
the higher tier with the four-character adjustment.For scenarios written in Seasons 0 to 3, when the APL is
in between subtiers, a party of six or seven characters must
play the higher subtier. Parties with four or five characters
must play the lower subtier. In the fringe case where there
are no players that are high enough to have reached the
subtier level (such as a party of six 3rd level characters), the
group may decide to play down to the lower subtier.
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Seasons 4-5 also has no APL change, and when in the middle of 2 subtiers, they can choose whichever they want to play in (at the cost of less or more loot, challenge, gold and all).
Not true. The only time a group can choose is if their APL falls to exactly X.5 where X is the level between sub-tiers. If their APL is equal to the out-of-tier level, then the number of PCs determines if they play the low sub-tier without the 4 player adjustment or the high sub-tier with the 4 player adjustment.
In Seasons 0-3, since there was no 4 player adjustment, teams of 5 or less play the low and teams of 6 or 7 play the high. In Seasons 4 and beyond, parties with 5 or more play the high with adjustment, parties of 4 or less play the low without adjustment.
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In a Season 4 or later, Tier 1-5:
4 Players, APL 1-2: Play subtier 1-2 with the 4 player adjustment
5-7 Players, APL 1-2: Play subtier 1-2 without the 4 player adjustment
4 players, APL 3: Play subtier 1-2 without the 4 player adjustment
4-7 players, APL exactly 2.5: Round to either APL 2 or 3 as the table prefers
5-7 players, APL 3: Play subtier 4-5 with the 4 player adjustment
**5-7 players, APL 3, but no player level 4+: May choose to play up (with adjustment) or down (without adjustment)**
4 players, APL 4-5: Play subtier 4-5 with the 4 player adjustment
6-7 players, APL 4-5: Play subtier 4-5 without the 4 player adjustment
For a Season 0-3, Tier 1-5:
4-7 players, APL 1-2: Play subtier 1-2
4-5 players, APL 3: Play subtier 1-2
6-7 players, APL exactly 2.5: Round to either APL 2 or 3 as the table prefers
6-7 players, APL 3, but no player level 4+: May choose to play up or down.
6-7 players, APL 3: Play subtier 4-5
4-7 players, APL 4-5: Play subtier 4-5
Rinse and Repeat for higher Tier scenarios.
**The formatting in the Guide places this rule in the same paragraph that talks about Season 3 and older scenarios. It is my understanding that this is meant to apply to scenarios of all seasons. My understanding could be wrong. Expect table variation.