PFS question about wizards spellbooks

[Ramlatus]

I am new to PFS, and have only gotten to play one session. What are the opportunities for wizards to expand their spellbooks? Are there ever spellbooks as treasure? Yes I know I would still have to spend money to purchase that. I really want to play a wizard, but playing a wizard is pointless if expanding the spells in their spellbook is limited.

Also I know that for most scenario can only be played once for credit, and run as a GM once for credit. Are the First Steps scenarios also held to this restriction, or is it per character instead? Are there any other scenarios that can be played multiple times?

[The Fox]

Ramlatus wrote:

I am new to PFS, and have only gotten to play one session. What are the opportunities for wizards to expand their spellbooks? Are there ever spellbooks as treasure? Yes I know I would still have to spend money to purchase that. I really want to play a wizard, but playing a wizard is pointless if expanding the spells in their spellbook is limited.

1. At every new wizard level, you get to add two spells of any spell level you can cast into your spell book. For free.

2. You may buy 1st-level scrolls at the cost listed in the Core Rulebook. As you gain fame, you may buy higher level scrolls. These may be used to add spells to your spell book. You need to make a Spellcraft check to learn the spell, and must pay the scribing cost. You can even copy scrolls that are a higher level than you can cast. Copying a scroll into your spell book consumes the scroll. You will also sometimes find scrolls on chronicle sheets.

3. You may copy spells from another wizard's spell book. This includes other player character wizards, if they let you. You will occasionally find NPC wizards' spell books in scenarios. They won't be listed on the chronicle, so be sure to jump on them in the game session, and have the GM sign off on any spells you learn. Copying spells from another spell book requires a Spellcraft check to learn the spell and the gp cost to scribe. As with scrolls, you can copy spells that are a higher level than you can cast, provided you pass the Spellcraft check

[Samish Lakefinder]

2a. You can scribe scrolls into your spellbook that you find during the adventure. While this expends the scroll it does not reduce the gold you receive at the end.

4. You can pay 1/2 the scribing cost to a generic NPC to gain access to a spell to scribe per the rules in the Players Handbook.

[Haco]

Yes Samish, you have access to the Library of the Absalom's Great Lodge and you only pay the 1/2 of the price for copy spells in your spellbook.

[Nizari]

Should be clear that the 1/2 the scribing cost is an extra on top of the scribing cost to pay for that NPC wizards time.

So to copy a 1st level spell from a NPC wizard, its 10GP for the scribing material + (0.5*10) access fee for access = 15GP per 1st lvl spell.

That access fee doesnt have to be paid when copying from players or found books in a scenario and is replaced by the cost of the scroll (If you had to buy it) when copying from that medium.

[glass]

Ramlatus wrote:

Also I know that for most scenario can only be played once for credit, and run as a GM once for credit. Are the First Steps scenarios also held to this restriction, or is it per character instead? Are there any other scenarios that can be played multiple times?

Any scenario that is specifically Tier 1 (ie not 1-5 or anything, just 1) can be replayed and re-run for credit as many times as you like (although only once per character, of course). Note that being legally re-playable does not necesarily mean the adventure is designed to be replayed (like for example Ravenloft is).

This does indeed include the the first First Steps scenario, although note that its two sequels are retired so you cannot run or play them for credit at all.

I actually asked for clarification on this a couple of days ago. When I don't need to get back to work, I'll try to find and link my thread, as it had a couple of recommendations for other re-playable scenarios in it.

glass.

[CRobledo]

Replayable Scenarios (as of 10/22/2013):
First Steps Part 1
The Confirmation (upcoming: releases end of November)

Replayable modules:
We be Goblins!
Thornkeep: The Accursed Halls
Master of the Fallen Fortress
Crypt of the Everflame
Murder's Mark
Godsmouth Heresy

Replayable APs:
Reign of Winter: Snows of Summer

[Baron Ulfhamr]

Please note that humans with high intelligence may take the Fast Learner feat:

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward.

Coupled with this alternate favored class bonus for humans:

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

Add one spell from the wizard spell list to the wizard's spellbook. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level he can cast.

Your spell books will fill a bit faster

[Silbeg]

Baron Ulfhamr, I believe that if you are using the alternate favored class bonus, you are forgoing the skills or hp... so I am pretty sure that Fast Learner won't help there.
"instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward"

That means you have a few choices with this feat:

• +1 skill rank
  
• +1 hp
  
• alternate class reward
  
• +1 hp and +1 skill rank
  

I don't know why anyone would take either of the first two options, but they are technically there. These options are mutually exclusive.

[Mystic Lemur]

That is incorrect, at least as far as the English language is concerned. You can trade either the+1 hp or the +1 skill point for the alternate favoredd class bonus. You still get the benefit of the other option. A human wizard can take that feat and get both the +1 hp and the +1 spell per level.

[Grammar Nazi]

Mystic Lemur wrote:

That is incorrect, at least as far as the English language is concerned. You can trade either the+1 hp or the +1 skill point for the alternate favoredd class bonus. You still get the benefit of the other option. A human wizard can take that feat and get both the +1 hp and the +1 spell per level.

Not so.

Look again:

Fast Learner wrote:

When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward.

The structure of that sentence is as follows:

"When you gain a level in a favored class"
^ This is the condition under which the rest of the sentence applies.
"you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either on or the other benefit"
^ This is your first option.
"or"
^ This shows us that there is about to be a second option besides what we've just read.
"you can choose an alternate class reward."
^ This is the second option.

How exactly are you parsing that sentence?

[BigNorseWolf]

This one has been disected in the rules forums down to the molecule.

The author didn't consider the favored class options when he wrote it, that was added on in the editing department, somewhere.

English is a damned imprecise language.

So its one of those "damned if i know" things.

If the feat doesn't do alternate class features I can see no reason not to simply take toughness and use the other point as you see fit.

[JohnF]

Silbeg has the correct interpretation (both grammatically and by intention, IMO).

PRD: Fast Learner wrote:

When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward.

(emphasis mine).

If you take the option before the 'or', you get both the hit point and the skill rank; if you choose the other option you get just the alternate class reward, and no hit point or skill rank.

Edit: Grammar Ninja'd!

[CRobledo]

You know, I've always wondered is he a grammar nazi, or the grammar nazi?

[Hayato Ken]

It´s "a" because that is a global movement actually.
And i highly appreciate it. In every language i encountered so far.

To say it with Ludwig Widgenstein: "The limitations of your language are the limitations of your world".*

*limitation could also be frontier, border, threshould, boundary, limit, edge or periphery, but to me it made the most sense :D

[Baron Ulfhamr]

Glad I posted that, because I was counting on the spell and skill point, possibly taking Toughness as well. I will buy my spells as per normal, then.

[Matthew Pittard]

Also keep in mind that should you decide to take a prestige class for your Wizard (as I have taken Bloatmage for my Fire Elementalist) you do NOT get the 2 spells to be put into your spellbook. Thats part of the Wizard class. This basically means for at least your first adventure you wont have spells of that new level until you buy some and spellcraft them in. (taking time etc).

Also keep in mind generally we Wizard players get gypped on finding new spellbooks in treasure. Either they are putting sorcs up against us (although Blood transcription is useful spell here) or spell like abilities or wizards who dont carry around their spellbooks!

So Aram Zey is a good source for new spells.

[Jeff Merola]

Matt, Blood Transcription was banned in the most recent update to Additional Resources.

[Matthew Pittard]

!!!! Egads... noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

erm My Apologies. Blood transcription is bad.

[Pogrist the Great]

Blood Transcription is AWESOME, and I can only guess banned by the deciemverate for the public relations issues that have arisen when used in front of the "uninitiated" masses. I have, regrettably, had to leave it as well as two of my favored spellbooks* behind at the behest of my employers upon my hire.
*Namely The Book of the Grave and Grandfather's Legacy
Fortunately, there is a vast magical library in Absalom in which a Pathfinder can find nearly any (sanctioned) spell for a modest access fee- well worth the inconveniences of forbidden lore for the time being.

[Mystic Lemur]

Edit: I get it now. There's an extra "or" I've just not been seeing. Probably because it doesn't belong there. :P

[Matthew Morris]

Wait, blood transcription was banned? I missed that. any idea why?
*makes mental note to remove hold person from Ksenia's spell book.*

[Paz]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Wait, blood transcription was banned? I missed that. any idea why?

Because it's a form of cannibalism, and cannibalism (in PFS) is an evil act.

[Jiggy]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Wait, blood transcription was banned? I missed that. any idea why?

*makes mental note to remove hold person from Ksenia's spell book.*

People were like, "Is cannibalism evil?" and Mike was like, "Of course!", but then people were like, "Then how come blood transcription's legal?" so Mike was like, "Good point!" and now it's banned.

I may have paraphrased a bit.

[Matthew Morris]

Jiggy wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Wait, blood transcription was banned? I missed that. any idea why?

*makes mental note to remove hold person from Ksenia's spell book.*

People were like, "Is cannibalism evil?" and Mike was like, "Of course!", but then people were like, "Then how come blood transcription's legal?" so Mike was like, "Good point!" and now it's banned.

I may have paraphrased a bit.

*sigh* So should we see all the bite traits banned? :-(

Not so bad for Ksenia, since season 2 stuff has a lot of witchy casters, but sucks more for the wizard.

[Jiggy]

Matthew Morris wrote:

*sigh* So should we see all the bite traits banned? :-(

Only if the usual reaction you see to people being bitten by a dog is "It's eating me!"

[Matthew Morris]

Sorry, I should have used the sarcasm tag.

[Wraith235]

you can also scribe spells from Wizards you Group with (magus's too)

and another bit of good news is that you can Take 10 to do it ... so as long as you have a +14 to Spellcraft you will never fail to Scribe a spell (15+ spell level)

also just as a Side note there is a Feat in Inner Sea World Guide Called Cypher Script ... take a look at that ... its a Huge Money Saver

[Matthew Morris]

Wraith235 wrote:

you can also scribe spells from Wizards you Group with (magus's too)

and another bit of good news is that you can Take 10 to do it ... so as long as you have a +14 to Spellcraft you will never fail to Scribe a spell (15+ spell level)

also just as a Side note there is a Feat in Inner Sea World Guide Called Cypher Script ... take a look at that ... its a Huge Money Saver

At least in our local experience, it's hard to get wizards (and witches) at the same table. Saturday we had a magus, an oracle, a bard and a witch. 7 charcters, 4 casters and not a spell to share. YMMV of course.

[Wraith235]

I never said it was easy to get lol

tho I think Magus / Wizard is easier than most

just gave a general response :-)

[Pogrist the Great]

Paz wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Wait, blood transcription was banned? I missed that. any idea why?

Because it's a form of cannibalism, and cannibalism (in PFS) is an evil act.

Again, blood magic and necromancy are repressed as evil while diabolism and devil-worship are sanctioned- I suppose because the Chelaxians obviously have seats in (or power over) the deciemverate.

[Sarta]

The cost to scribe spells is the level of the spell squared x 10. The cost to copy a spell from an NPC is the level of the spell squared x 5.

If you find a scroll in a scenario (and you have time) you can attempt to spellcraft the spell, pay the cost to scribe it, and add it to your spellbook.

If you group with a wizard or magus who is willing to share their spellbook, you can also attempt to spellcraft the spell, pay the costs to scribe, and add it to your spellbook.

The DC to learn a new spell from a scroll or someone else is 15 + spell level. You can take 10 on this roll.

By around 8th or 9th level you should consider a Blessed Book, which removes the costs of scribing spells.

[Wraith235]

Will Johnson wrote:

The cost to scribe spells is the level of the spell squared x 10. The cost to copy a spell from an NPC is the level of the spell squared x 5.

NPC's Charge 1/2 the Ink Cost ... then you must pay the ink Cost in addition

Totals of
0 - 7.5
1 - 15
2 - 60
3 - 135
4 - 240
5 - 375
6 - 540
7 - 995
8 - 1145
9 - 1315

also if you have feats available .. I know I mentioned this before .. but look into Cypher Script .. its amazing especially if your entering into a PRC with Wizard where you dont get new spells automatically anymore

then just retrain it when you get the Blessed Book

edited for Formatting

[Matthew Trent]

Any time two wizard PCs meet they spend the first 10 minutes ignoring whatever a venture captain is gabbing about and ogling each others spell books. That's my experience anyway.

[Wraith235]

Matthew Trent wrote:

Any time two wizard PCs meet they spend the first 10 minutes ignoring whatever a venture captain is gabbing about and ogling each others spell books. That's my experience anyway.

you make it sound so Pornographic ;-p

VC So and So : So Pathfinders .. I have gathered you here today
PC 1: Psst Wizard
PC 2: what
PC 1: I'll show you mine if you show me yours
PC 2: ok just dont let the VC know

[Matthew Pittard]

Yeah, locally I think I have the only Wizard. I generally call Sorcs the diet coke of arcane casters. Its kinda sad as a promote Wizards where possible but generally yeah, sorcs rule the day here (and i can see why, more burn more often). We also have a somewhat limited list of legal archetypes (I get a little depressed where new Schools of magic are given in lieu of new wizard archetypes)

[Matthew Morris]

Matthew Pittard wrote:

Yeah, locally I think I have the only Wizard. I generally call Sorcs the diet coke of arcane casters. Its kinda sad as a promote Wizards where possible but generally yeah, sorcs rule the day here (and i can see why, more burn more often). We also have a somewhat limited list of legal archetypes (I get a little depressed where new Schools of magic are given in lieu of new wizard archetypes)

It's also preference. I like the 'smaller toolbox' of Sorcerers. I actually picked a Wtich to 'ease' me into playing a prepared caster after years of abstention (I played psions in 3.x home games, or bards) so I have the prepared spells and the 'always there' hexes to ease the transition.

[kinevon]

Myself, I have my second Wizard I have ever built, my first one for PFS, and that is because I got access to Thassilonian Specialist from a boon.

For casters, I prefer Sorcerer/Bard types because all the angst (for me) of choosing spells is done well before play-time, and all you have to do, once play starts, is keep your eye on your tool box.

Wizards, especially, give me issues in the "I cannot make a choice" school for what spells to prepare. And it gets worse as you scribe more spells into your spellbook.

I had started a Magus, with the Kensai archetype, as an "ease my way" into arcane spell choice, because they have both a limited list, and a strong preference built-in for certain spells. He is actually up around 7th level right now, and fun to RP, but that is because he is also a Blade Bound, and his Black Blade, as I envision it, is mildly insane, and so is he. "Meet my good friend, Hobbs! Bwhahaha!" "Don't make me introduce you to Hobbs, he doesn't like people, other than as sources of blood. He likes to watch the blood pool."

[Kurthnaga]

Matthew Pittard wrote:

Yeah, locally I think I have the only Wizard. I generally call Sorcs the diet coke of arcane casters. Its kinda sad as a promote Wizards where possible but generally yeah, sorcs rule the day here (and i can see why, more burn more often). We also have a somewhat limited list of legal archetypes (I get a little depressed where new Schools of magic are given in lieu of new wizard archetypes)

As far as I know I am the only Wizard at our store to ever make it past 3 from the regulars. He is the first character and even with just what I can put my hands on as a relatively new player, he is very complex. Of course now he's 9th level, and can cast ~24 spells a day I believe from over 35 options, but even curving into level 5 and up I've found that he's got a lot of play to him. Wizards are very interesting to play, but I don't think I'd recommend them to newbies. Sorcs are pretty simple in general,("Blasty blast fireball boom".) But even the basic core wizard or apg+core tends to have a lot of decisions to make at any one time.

On topic, don't expect to get to pick and choose out of people's spellbooks often. I have had quite a few alchemists pick up a few from me though.

[Matthew Pittard]

Kurthnaga:

I wonder who I need to thank the removal of Blood Transcription for. If it wasnt for those damn forum posters...... (insert Scooby reference)

I much prefer prepared ahead of time casters. I like Variety, and while Sorcs obviously are really good I can honestly say Ive never built one. My Wizard in PFS is now also 9th level so has a lot of options and yeah sometimes I wish I had memorised a different spell but remember!

You can leave slots open and then quickly memorise into that slot if needed. Most Wizard players never actually remember it this.. Ive used it only once or twice myself.

[Leannen Elvanna]

If anyone is looking for me I'll be in the arcanium feeding their books to my familiar.

[Kurthnaga]

I use this tactic with typically 1-2 slots at my spell slots at least 1 slot below my highest. I memorize all my high level spell slots. Considering taking the Fast Study arcane discovery at 10.

[Hayato Ken]

Yes some people seem to have too much time that they are discussing spells like that and then make schemes to get them removed.

For the wizard:
There always was fast study as arcane discovery at level 5.
Now there is the quick preparation feat in Society Primer, which let´s you half your preparation time.
Preparing one spell in 5 rounds is pretty awesome i think.

Played the last wizard in a D&D game 20 years ago, so i forgot everything and at that time i had no clue. Now i´m really beginning to like the teleport subschool and divination school^^

[Paz]

Matthew Pittard wrote:

I wonder who I need to thank the removal of Blood Transcription for. If it wasnt for those damn forum posters...... (insert Scooby reference)

*Whistles innocently*

[Baron Ulfhamr]

Paz wrote:

Matthew Pittard wrote:

I wonder who I need to thank the removal of Blood Transcription for. If it wasn't for those damn forum posters...... (insert Scooby reference)

*Whistles innocently*

...so they REALLY banned Blood Transcription solely because blood drinking is evil? ..and by the same measure all dhampir blood feats? So again, WHY the devil-worshipping Chelaxians? EVIL!

If a neutral (or good?) character can be a Hellknight and serve Asmodeus, a neutral necromancer or dhampir can drink a little blood- blood of defeated evil spellcasters at that. Please measure all with the same morality stick!

[Jiggy]

Baron Ulfhamr wrote:

If a nuetral (or good?) character can be a Hellknight and serve Asmodeus, a nuetral necromancer or dhampir can drink a little blood- blood of defeated evil spellcasters at that. Please measure all with the same morality stick!

Being a Hellknight is not evil. It's a LN organization whose members range from LE all the way to LG. An individual Hellknight might commit evil actions, and if so, it's not like he gets a free pass or anything. A Hellknight is still accountable for his actions, whether good or evil. So comparing it to cannibalism (defined as inherently evil) isn't really a valid comparison. Being a Hellknight isn't doing anything, so is amoral (not even neutral).

As for being a necromancer... Frankly, I wish raising the dead was considered an inherently evil action and treated as such in PFS. Matches all the world lore, so I wish it was handled accordingly. But I don't make the rules.

[Baron Ulfhamr]

...and of worshipping Asmodeus? Oh, you can be Lawful Neutral and serve a Lawful Evil god, right? Well, THAT is the validity of my argument.
Also, drinking blood, as a dhampir, is part of their makeup-it's how their sires eat.

Why split hairs to curtail the abilities of OTHERS to play the game as THEY wish?
?

[Jiggy]

Baron Ulfhamr wrote:

...and of worshipping Asmodeus? Oh, you can be Lawful Neutral and serve a Lawful Evil god, right? Well, THAT is the validity of my argument.

Just like with being a Hellknight, worshipping Asmodeus doesn't have to involve doing anything evil. For instance, he's all about contracts, so people who feel strongly about the importance of agreements being in writing and being honored to the letter might worship him for that reason alone, but never partake in anything evil.

Quote:

Also, drinking blood, as a dhampir, is part of their makeup-it's how their sires eat.

Just because it comes naturally to their sires doesn't make it not evil. Corrupting mortal souls comes naturally to tieflings' sires, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be evil for tiefling PCs to try and send people to hell.

Quote:

Why split hairs to curtail the abilities of OTHERS to play the game as THEY wish?

?

If defining the drinking of people's blood as evil seems like "splitting hairs" to you, then PFS might not be the right campaign for you.

[Matthew Morris]

Jiggy,

In his defense, you can play a character from Nidal, Cheliax or even Andoran, all evil nations. :P

I think his point is that it seems strange that characters can do all sorts of evil things, except this one thing. You can worship Asmodaeus, Norgberger, Zon Kuthon... all evil deities and yet be neutral. Yet you can't drink a little blood? It seems capricious to me too.

Don't forget you can consume a living creature for power (spider climb) as an example. And necromancy like you said above.

"Hey, I'm going to take that bard I just killed with death knell and animate him into a walking meat shield."
"Cool, mind if I get some blood first? I want to add hold person to my spell list."
"Whoa, dude! That's evil!"

From a 'realism' PoV, we're told time and again that Pathfinders aren't a good organization, and they're dedicated to collecting knowlege. Well... win win.

From a 'me' point of view, it wasn't learning spells as much as it was upping Ksenia's creepyness factor by having her familiar drinking the blood to get spells. I like my witch creepy. (And not getting why people think she's creepy)