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Is it just me or is the BBEG at the end of the Dalsine Affair seriously overpowered for the lowest tier? I ran it with four players (pregen Rogue, pregen Paladin, 2nd level Magus, and 1st level Oracle) today and it was the closest I've ever come to a TPK without actually killing anyone.
Dalsine dropped the rogue in the first round, attacking while invisible with shocking grasp. Magus responded with hydraulic push, throwing Dalsine against the wall. Paladin charged, crits, and then gets dropped to -10 by shocking grasp #2.
Our oracle managed to bring the rogue back up in the meantime, to 1 hp. He then tries a touch attack and Dalsine uses shocking grasp #3 (using spell recall) to drop the oracle.
At this point I was sure that we had a TPK in the making, and I was running with a lot of new players, including one who had never played before at all, so I paused for a second, and explained, "now is a good time to run and leave your companions to die. This has TPK written all over it and at least two of you can survive."
The magus says, "Nope. We're not leaving. We're going down in a big blaze of glory."
So... my magus goes up and delivers a shocking grasp to the BBEG, and then the rogue (who is standing in a pool of her own blood, 1 hp), throws an alchemist's fire with a natural 20 and turns the boss into interior lighting, bringing him to -1.
They were so busy fighting over who got to do the coup de grace they almost forgot to start stabilizing people.
Overall, it was a rather epic encounter, and was easily the closest I've gotten to a TPK without actually killing anyone, but honestly, it seems like the burst damage this boss is capable of is just too deadly at this tier. It was a miracle that they didn't all die.
What do you guys think?
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Heh. Like Tier 6-7 isn't going to be ugly if someone is playing up:
9d6 average is 31.5, add 50% becomes 46 points or so on average. 23 pooints on a save, even at level 7 with a Barbarian, is not going to be good. Put that damage on a squishy, with d6 hit dice, and he will be lucky to be awake afterwards...
That's where Evasion and a really good Reflex save make a huge difference.
7d6 caster hit points are 6 + 6*4 + 14 (Con 14) + 7 (FCB) = 51. That is probably about the best case scenario, likely real life versions will have fewer, potentially significantly fewer hit points. I have a player who runs a Witch with an 8 COn, so 30 - 7 = 23. Staggered if he saves...
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It's definitely an encounter that kills people when run as written. Tier 3-4 is also quite capable of killing players with a single crit. You have to love rapiers.
I don't really think it is the rapier as much as the lightning channeled through it. :)
(Yes, I do understand that the critical threat range is great on a rapier.)
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It's definitely an encounter that kills people when run as written. Tier 3-4 is also quite capable of killing players with a single crit. You have to love rapiers.
I don't really think it is the rapier as much as the lightning channeled through it. :)
(Yes, I do understand that the critical threat range is great on a rapier.)
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Yeah, when we played through this, the BBEG dropped my poor level 2 Sorcerer from full hp to about -7 in one hit. I think the GM was more worried about killing me than I was -- I assured him I wasn't upset at being the one targeted and I had plenty of CON.
On the other hand, the rest of the party then took him down easily, because he'd wasted his big attack on a caster whose only offensive spell (Color Spray) wouldn't have touched him. So it was all good.
I quite enjoyed the adventure, even if the politics were a little hard to follow so far after the fact.
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I've run this once, and am doing it a second time on the boards. We're just about to face Chalfon.
In my first run at low tier I nearly dropped the level 2 Lore Warden unconscious, then the BBEG got rocket-tagged to death by the six other PCs.
Personally, I like the threat of danger. With a single BBEG, a surprise action and the ability to one-shot characters is critical to maintaining this.
The only time I've been able to make the BBEG seem somewhat threatening is in this scenario and The God's Market Gamble.
To be fair, both games had parties of six or seven characters, so one or two unconscious wouldn't spoil the day.
Even First Steps I has been called deadly becuase of the potential greataxe crit in the last fight. Sometimes the dice just screw you.
That said, Dalsine Affair definitely can be more deadly than many other low-level scenarios. I probably wouldn't run it with brand-new players, but if there are a few 2's in the mix, then it's really not that terrible IMO.
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Dalsine Affair is brutal. When I played it, my Barbarian/Monk was level 3, I think. I posted my results in the Dalsine Death Toll thread.
We had 7 players when we ran through it, and my character suffered the Shocking Grasp. Shortly afterwards I went down.
This scenario reminded me so much of what it was like to play in Living Greyhawk; Ah, the good ol' days ;)
EDIT: Here's the post I originally made.
Had the displeasure of playing this scenario last night. Played at Tier 1-2, with a 7 person party. Mostly level 1 to 2, with my Barbarian/Monk who was 3.
Even with seven people, it was a difficult fight. Got hit with Shocking Grasp by the invisible Magus when I went into the manor. Lost half my hit points in that one hit (went from 30 hit points to 13). Couple of rounds later, I was unconcious. Failed the first stabilization check, made the next two (GM wanted us to keep rolling, so others wouldn't know if I stabilized).
The druid in the party had a badger, who hadn't been hit, so didn't rage. Finally when someone threw an alchemist fire, it got hit by the splash damage and started to rage. Kind of amusing.
Gunslinger and Rogue went on the balcony and peppered with range. Gunslinger was the one who was hitting reliably, thanks to hitting touch AC. Everyone else had trouble hitting.
I would have suggested everyone aid another the Barbarian with the Bardiche, but since I was unconcious, decided not to since I was, well, unconcious. :)
Final death toll: None (although I was at -9, with a 14 CON).
Only thing surprising? Thought this was at least a season 3+ scenario, and was surprised to see it's a season 2. Go figure.
Mental note: next character to build will be a healbot cleric with healing out the wazoo :)
EDIT: Amusing idea for a Pathfinder Shirt:
"I survived the Dalsine Affair and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
