Rust Monsters were made up by Ed Greenwood, idea came from a a plastic figurine. Was in one of the Dragon magazines.
That was Gary Gygax, part of the of the group of bulette, owlbear, and rust monster. There may have been another monster in that group, but he cannot recall and no longer has the toys.
Source: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?167680-Gary-Gygax-Q-amp-A-Part- XI/page25&p=2964677#post2964677
I think Loxodons are WotC only as well (the giant elephant people with 2 snouts) Plus universe specific monsters aren't going to show up. Eberron's Quori, and Faerun's Sharns and evil monster wind socks.
As others said. I only really miss Beholders and mind flayers. Heck both had whole books devoted to them.
So the list of WotC IP monsters is pretty clear at this point. But we could address another question, what do we use in PF to replace them (assuming you don't just use the original monster in your home game)?
Beholder, including beholder-kin such as the Gauth
Something with a lot of spell-like abilities. The Evil Eye and Gibbering Orb are both close.
Carrion crawler
A subterranean scavenger. The Giant Rot Grub is a pretty good match. Possibly also the Grick
Displacer beast
A stealthy hunter, with a magic twist. The Kamadan could be a stand-in. 3PP also has the Tangtal.
Githyanki/Githzerai
Extra-planar humanoids, should be connected to the replacement for
Mind Flayers. I think that Fetchlings actually make good candidates.
Kuo-toa
Subterranean fish people. The Iku-turso seems suitable.
Mind flayer
Subterranean brain eaters and masters of mind powers. PF Neh-Thalggu are a good choice, as are the spawn of the Great Old Ones (Elder Thing, Moit of Shub-Niggurath, etc). The Possessor and Moonbeast could work too.
Slaad
Frog-like beings of pure chaos (with some evil mixed in). Proteans are probably the best substitute, being chaos embodied in a reptilian form.
Umber hulk
Large insectoid bruiser. The Tunnel Brute is almost spot-on.
Yuan-ti
Serpentine empire builders. Serpentfolk, Nagji, and Vishkanya could be correlated to Abominations, Half-bloods, and Purebreeds.
The author, incidentally, was Charles Stross, who also created the githyanki, githzerai, and death knights.
Huh. Cool.
Here's an interview with him where he discusses all of this.
Rust Monsters were made up by Ed Greenwood, idea came from a a plastic figurine. Was in one of the Dragon magazines.That was Gary Gygax, part of the of the group of bulette, owlbear, and rust monster. There may have been another monster in that group, but he cannot recall and no longer has the toys.
Source: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?167680-Gary-Gygax-Q-amp-A-Part- XI/page25&p=2964677#post2964677
It was the umber hulk... I had those toys. :)
Are you saying the piercer is still fair game?
Beholder is the biggest lossI agree wholeheartedly. Of all the monsters Paizo cannot use, beholders are the most iconic and difficult to replace.
as a person that had 4 PCs disintegrated by Beholders, i wasn't sad to see Pathfinder couldn't use them:) i hate Beholders so very very much!
Rust Monsters were made up by Ed Greenwood, idea came from a a plastic figurine. Was in one of the Dragon magazines.That was Gary Gygax, part of the of the group of bulette, owlbear, and rust monster. There may have been another monster in that group, but he cannot recall and no longer has the toys.
Source: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?167680-Gary-Gygax-Q-amp-A-Part- XI/page25&p=2964677#post2964677
Yeah Mike Mornad, one of the original players, posted his remembrence of the creation of those creatures in the game. He is also to blame for gelatinous cubes- he mused out loud wondering why the corridors in teh dungeoun didn't have lots of clutter. He posts as Old Geezer on RPG net.
Intellect devourers and neothelids are both being used by Paizo as illithid replacements.
Hmmm... Kopru?
Sahuagin or Skum? (adding a Dominate Person ability to either), or is there something that better matches? (i.e. having that eel-like lower body)
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One thing I'd like to point out. That list is good for identifying the stuff that you can't use from Monster Manual 1 only. None of the other Monster Manuals ever got added to the SRD (with the exception of a couple of monsters from Monster Manual 2). So unless they are from mythology or something similar, they are unusable (and even then you can't just copy-paste the stat block).
And, as always, this only refers to published works. In your home game, use whatever the hell you want.
How about the Modrons?
Well, to be fair, the reason they were in the MM2 was because they were already OGL. The Razor boar was created by Sword and Sorcery Studios, I am not sure if the Scorpionfolk were too or by someone else.
But they were included as examples of creative use of the OGL.
razor boar is, I believe, from a 3rd party group, originally made for the Scarred Lands. It was OGL from THEM, and WoTC used it.
Scorpion folk, not sure if that was originally FR or Scarred Lands, either.
==Aelryinth
Yeah, the couerl is shown as non-OGL on the PFSRD.
Skum existed in 3.5 as a different monster, but could certainly be used in place of kua-toa.
Yeah, Neothelids were illithid (mind flayer) tadpoles that never got implanted in a host body.
Kopru, as I can best recall, were kinda like mer-mind flayers, right?
For Modrons, I would probably suggest Inevitables or Formians. Aeons wouldn't make a bad choice, though focused on "balance" instead of order.
For some reason the Dao didn't make the move and got replaced by satan.
To answer SPCDRI Very simply:
Why are mind flayers iconic ?
there were editions before third.
Back then they were pretty scary.
Mind Blast doesn't attempt to possess or exert mental control of the target. It just stuns them. You would get the +2 on the save, but no other benefit from Prot v. Evil.
The tentacle attacks are pretty much only for Brain Extract, and you wouldn't be able to resist because you were stunned. PF changes stunned to only giving +4 CMB to the attacker.
Where you call them an "artillery piece" is basically right. Their job was to stay out of melee where their hp, AC, and attack bonuses wouldn't matter and just stun-lock PCs.
And don't forget the SR 25, making up for the lack of immunities and resistances since a level 8 (more likely 6) caster has almost no chance of penetrating.
"Flavor-wise and conceptually and even right down to the name mind flayer the thing is brilliant." That's what makes them iconic.
But yeah, they'd need rewriting to work as Pathfinder enemies.
For some reason the Dao didn't make the move and got replaced by satan.Djinn and Ifrit/Efreeti are real words, for folklore genies as is the much rarer used Marid. Dao, as far as I know, was totally made up by TSR (at least in the sense of 'earth genie'), so not something Paizo could use.
I've used Jann or Djann as an earth genie.
What about a good old fashion Hook Horror? I have yet to see one in a PF book. Are they also on the non-open list?
Maybe that's why Paizo invented ogre hooks
What about a good old fashion Hook Horror? I have yet to see one in a PF book. Are they also on the non-open list?
Was in Monster Manual II, so a good chance there isn't an OGL one :(
The weird thing about the razor boar and scorpionfolk is that, rather than subject themselves to the indignities of using their own OGL, WotC sought permission from the rights holders to include them in the MMII as OGC.
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Well, nothing to say we can't use beholders and mind flayers in our own games
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I did a home brew monster called a "beerholder" once. Everyone correctly agreed that was a really lame idea.
The cone of sobriety from the big central eye is a real buzzkill.
Ew. Now I've got the image of a floating sphere with a big central mouth and ten smaller mouths on tentacles. And remembering that they already had such a thing, probably, called the bleeder?
Floating critters with other facial-features-on-stalks didn't work out so well, as the Listener and Smeller never really took off.
I did a home brew monster called a "beerholder" once. Everyone correctly agreed that was a really lame idea.The cone of sobriety from the big central eye is a real buzzkill.
Ew. Now I've got the image of a floating sphere with a big central mouth and ten smaller mouths on tentacles.
The one in my mind is also wearing a giant baseball cap with a keg attached to either side, and twelve straws leading into the mouths (the central mouth has one from each keg)
Hmm. It's possibly also quite legal to publish under the parody terms of copyright law...
For some reason the Dao didn't make the move and got replaced by satan.Djinn and Ifrit/Efreeti are real words, for folklore genies as is the much rarer used Marid. Dao, as far as I know, was totally made up by TSR (at least in the sense of 'earth genie'), so not something Paizo could use.
well IIRC the "proper" term for an earth jinni is "ghoul" or more accuratly "Ghul" which is a bit problematic for some obvious reasons.
well IIRC the "proper" term for an earth jinni is "ghoul" or more accuratly "Ghul" which is a bit problematic for some obvious reasons.For some reason the Dao didn't make the move and got replaced by satan.Djinn and Ifrit/Efreeti are real words, for folklore genies as is the much rarer used Marid. Dao, as far as I know, was totally made up by TSR (at least in the sense of 'earth genie'), so not something Paizo could use.
But more problematic than Satan?
But more problematic than Satan?well IIRC the "proper" term for an earth jinni is "ghoul" or more accuratly "Ghul" which is a bit problematic for some obvious reasons.For some reason the Dao didn't make the move and got replaced by satan.Djinn and Ifrit/Efreeti are real words, for folklore genies as is the much rarer used Marid. Dao, as far as I know, was totally made up by TSR (at least in the sense of 'earth genie'), so not something Paizo could use.
well in dnd and pathfinder ghouls are already an established thing that are very much not geinies, shaitan on the other hand may be the root for the word satan but it doesnt really look it from both the spelling and the presentation of the people.
Um, it's pretty much just how Sean Connery says "Satan."
I think the skum are really what Paizo uses to fill the role.
Kuo-toa
It's a mix of boggards, skum, gillmen and Deep Ones, really.
Eh...I prefer Proteans over Slaad anyway...we just need more of them.
the Limbo is big enough for all, Proteans, Slaadi and Githzerai... yeah, I'd adapt slaadi and gith if I were to create a campaign, and the Gith have the same problem as slaadi, because the creator is also Charles Stross. Yeah, the SF writer.
Rust Monsters were made up by Ed Greenwood, idea came from a a plastic figurine. Was in one of the Dragon magazines.
Rust monsters were in the 1977 MM1... I doubt the Greenwood was invilved with T$R that early.
The only ones I miss are the Displacer Beast, Beholders(and kin), and Carrion Crawlers.