Which classic rpg monsters can Paizo not use?
Githyanki/Githerazai
Beholders/beholderkin
Ithilids/mindflayers
Umber hulk
Displacer beast
Carrion crawlers
(updated from comments, thanks)
Any more?
Huh, the majority so far seems to be aberrations. That's interesting.
That's because aberrations are pretty much the weird made up stuff. Not too many aberrations in 'classic' literature.
If you include those tied intimately aberrations (the Gith to Mindflayers) the ratio rises even more. (And I've always thought of the displacer beast as kind of aberrant anyway.)
That's a good point, Purity. It does make me wonder, though, how WotC let something like the owlbear free. I know in part, at least, it has something to do with the Tome of Horrors, if I recall, but I don't know why or how, exactly.
PF has carrion creepers doesn't it?
That's a good point, Purity. It does make me wonder, though, how WotC let something like the owlbear free. I know in part, at least, it has something to do with the Tome of Horrors, if I recall, but I don't know why or how, exactly.
Apparently the Owlbear was inspired by a plastic toy Gary Gygax once saw. Whether that is related to there not being a claim of ownership to it, I don't know.
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Apparently the Owlbear was inspired by a plastic toy Gary Gygax once saw. Whether that is related to there not being a claim of ownership to it, I don't know.
That's a good point, Purity. It does make me wonder, though, how WotC let something like the owlbear free. I know in part, at least, it has something to do with the Tome of Horrors, if I recall, but I don't know why or how, exactly.
Huh. I thought that was Rust Monsters.
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The owlbear article indicates more than one plastic toy from that trip inspired a monster.
One of the previous threads on this subject indicated there are a few monsters Paizo could use such as the demon Fraz'lburl (pretty sure I spelled that wrong) because despite the myth origins is very strongly ties to greyhawk.
There are a few other monsters like the Slaad with legitimate questions as to WotC ownership. But its not worth paizos time on any monster with questionable ownership. From what I understand maintaining a positive social interaction with wotc's dnd staff is important.
I used to have the plastic toy rust monster and bullete
what's the issue with Slaad being questionable? Hadn't heard that before
Kuo toa as well, i believe....its why Skum got the re-write, i think
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Owlbears, umber hulks, rust monsters, and owlbears call came from a set of plastic dinosaurs and kaiju. When I was a kid, I was quite puzzled trying to figure out how a rust monster was in my toys.
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Here is d20srd's official list
http://www.d20srd.org/faq.htm
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I used to have the plastic toy rust monster and bullete
what's the issue with Slaad being questionable? Hadn't heard that before
I can't remember the specifics but I believe an author wrote a story for the slaad in white dwarf. Then through that a contract was made to allow the use of them for fiend folio, but the rights were never relinquished. When wotc acquired dnd the slaae continued to be used.
I'm fuzzy on some of the details but in one of the previous threads I think the opinion of the origonal author was given.
I just used it as an example where the ownership of the I.P. is unclear and the stuff I have read from paizo staff was that they were going out of their way to avoid areas of potential conflict.
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Eh...I prefer Proteans over Slaad anyway...we just need more of them.
There's very definitely a rust monster in at least one PFS scenario I've played. The barbarian I was playing with was... less than pleased.
I miss the kuo-toans and the slaadi. Haven't seen the kopru either, which is odd, because the aranea made it to PF and they originated in the same Basic D&D module. (No phanatons either, come to think of it.)
That's because the aranea was in the original 3rd edition Monster Manual, while the kopru was in Monster Manual II, which was never added to the SRD, and phanatons were only brought in to 3rd Edition (3.5 actually) in the pages of Dungeon Magazine, during the "Savage Tide" AP.
I can't remember the specifics but I believe an author wrote a story for the slaad in white dwarf. Then through that a contract was made to allow the use of them for fiend folio, but the rights were never relinquished. When wotc acquired dnd the slaae continued to be used.I used to have the plastic toy rust monster and bullete
what's the issue with Slaad being questionable? Hadn't heard that before
The author, incidentally, was Charles Stross, who also created the githyanki, githzerai, and death knights.
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Beholder is the biggest loss
I agree wholeheartedly. Of all the monsters Paizo cannot use, beholders are the most iconic and difficult to replace.
I use Mind Flayers as the creators of the vaults in Orv.
Beholders were a slave race that actually created the vaults and were locked away... Somewhere.
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Beholders are
CR 13. Very few games get that high it seems. They're a pretty
iconic "boss battle" so level 10 and 11 guys would see
fights against them, but even still...CR 13 with...
Sub 10 Initiative
Sub 100 HP
Sub 30 AC
9/5/11 as saves, no re-rolls or immune qualities
No damage reduction, fast healing or regeneration
Touch attacks at +9 that will legitimately miss often
DC 17 (really?) stuff that hits a guy with 100 HP
for 15 or KILLS HIM.
Charm Person AND Charm Monster. Cuz that makes sense.
Facing and Anti-Magic Cone are pains to adjudicate and deal with in combat.
Wow.
So a decently made level 10 PF Barbarian can take him down in 1 round? I never knew.
EDIT: AM BARBARIAN rage charge pounces at level 10 and can use one hit to dispel if needed. Someone else can work out damage if they want
There's very definitely a rust monster in at least one PFS scenario I've played. The barbarian I was playing with was... less than pleased.
The rust monster is in the Bestiary.
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Apparently the Owlbear was inspired by a plastic toy Gary Gygax once saw. Whether that is related to there not being a claim of ownership to it, I don't know.
That's a good point, Purity. It does make me wonder, though, how WotC let something like the owlbear free. I know in part, at least, it has something to do with the Tome of Horrors, if I recall, but I don't know why or how, exactly.
I had a pack of those as a youth - Owlbear, Rust Monster and Bullette were all in it. This was in 73 or 74 as I recall. I was only 6 or 7 when I had them
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My two coppers is that when WotC drew up the list of 'cool' monsters to keep to themselves, someone decided that owlbears just weren't that cool. I tend to agree with them. Iconic D&D? yep. Cool in an Charles Stross/kill-crazy-power aberration kind of way? Not so much.
Here is d20srd's official list
http://www.d20srd.org/faq.htm
Thanks very much for this. Exactly what I was looking for.
I think I miss Slaad the most. I used them extensively as a player. with the planar binding spells and also they were a favourite to polymorph myself into.
Apparently the Owlbear was inspired by a plastic toy Gary Gygax once saw. Whether that is related to there not being a claim of ownership to it, I don't know.
That's a good point, Purity. It does make me wonder, though, how WotC let something like the owlbear free. I know in part, at least, it has something to do with the Tome of Horrors, if I recall, but I don't know why or how, exactly.
I remember seeing a schlock horror movie, 35-40 years ago, where the humans were trapped in a cabin (I think on an island) and they were being attacked by a monster, that I am fairly sure was very owlbearish (Guy in a bearsuit with a beak). I really wish I could remember the name of the movie.
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And yet they let the intellectual property on Flumphs be used by all and sundry.
Nope. Nope, not gonna bite. Low hanging fruit, and all that.
Yuan-Ti comes to mind.
Thri-kreen aren't open content either.
Rust Monsters were made up by Ed Greenwood, idea came from a a plastic figurine. Was in one of the Dragon magazines.
Rust Monsters were made up by Ed Greenwood, idea came from a a plastic figurine. Was in one of the Dragon magazines.
Makes me wonder how many RPG developers managed to get "fact-finding trip to Japan to search for plastic toys we can turn into monsters" on their expenses back then :D