| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I haven't seen the 3rd ep yet. Sousa I think will end up being bad. He's too conveniently good at the right moments in the show, plus he has a deformity. Isn't that what Samuel L Jackson's character said in Unbreakable? Something about how deformity or weakness helps identify a villain in a comic book?
Also, for everyone in this thread that tells me sexism was THAT blatant in 1946: you were alive in 1946? I guess it wouldn't be so bad if the men were portrayed as anything but villains, oafs or idiots in the first 2 episodes. I suppose I'll need to reserve some judgment for #3 though.
I dont think Howard Stark, Jarvis or Dooley are villains, oafs or idiots. For that matter Dooley, Thompson and Souza arent bad men. But they ARE men of the time. And while I wasn't alive in 1946? I have family who was. It's like trying to tell me "it wasn't THAT racist back in 1946. You don't know because you weren't there." Well, it's pretty well documented that it WAS that racist back then. Just like the Women's suffrage movement has documented that it was that SEXIST back then as well. It's just jarring to some people because it seems that blunt and almost cartoonish.
Which is pretty much how a lot of black people feel when we encounter blatant racism.
See? INTERSECTIONALITY. I'm using that word in the most sarcastic way possible. (Jesus Christ, I hate that word...)
Agreed. It may have been the greatest generation, but their minds were quite closed.
|
Men were sexists but also carried a greater burden: a man who failed to bring home the bacon was seen as an abject failure by the close knit communities. So yes on sexism but also yes on self pride and sense of honor and sacrifice for wife and kids above all.
The concept of having 30+ year old men living in their mothers basement was non existent. You were pushed out of the nest very early and if you had no skill/talent/education you were expected to go to the logging camp throughout winter to earn money. Come back in the spring to a pregnant wife most likely...
re-reading this, i realize this looks awfully similar to the Erastil faith write-up... :)
|
|
follow-up / tangent:
If rigid enforcement of traditional gender roles is LG (i.e. Erastil-like, and perhaps borne of a need for efficiency due to physical differences between men and women and not really due to mental attributes or leadership of men vs. women), then is the loosening of such traditional roles indicative of a society's move to CG or towards TN?
Comparing the Carter show with Agents of SHIELD show, for example... is the old world LG and the new one CG or more TN?
If you don't believe that sexism was a rampant and reinforced part of American society in those days, just look at the advertisements from the period.
If you don't believe that sexism was a rampant and reinforced part of American society in those days, just look at the advertisements from the period.
Paradoxically, it was largely invisible because both men and women accepted it as both normal and the way things should be.
The main reason we are seeing it now that Agent Carter is pushing against those expectations.
Ok you're right: sexism was rampant in '46. I suppose I just don't need to be hammered by it. Also for the men in eps 1 and 2: Jarvis is either a knob or a spy; Stark leaves; the guy in the diner; men are the bad guys; the "g-men" can't catch a fleeing criminal while Carter walks calmly down the stairs for a gag.
Men are womanizers, hedonists, pigs, foolish, unreliable, and ultimately worthless to the advancement of the plot in the first two episodes. Only a woman is worthwhile: Carter is the protagonist; the gal in the diner has to take crap; the poor roomate is a sick victim in the wrong place at the wrong time. All they need is some domestic abuse to complete things.
I think that smoking is not allowed in sindication any more.
There's been smoking on the show, just not as prolifically as you'd expect. But yes, the anti-smoking lobby keeps it off TV most times, though they make exceptions for some shows, like Constantine. Smoking is part of his character.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
How about some more drinking too. In '46 wasn't there a lot of racism and ethnocentricity too? Maybe play up those themes as well.
Heck I don't want any of that. I just want a show about spies, pretty girls, handsome men and fighting set in the 40's. I have just about as much "real" as I can handle in my regular life, on most of the shows I watch, the books I read and what not. The whole reason I'm on these boards was to riff about fantasy games as an escape.
No more reality. Give me a fantasy of '46. Heck, if it wasn't specifically Marvel I'd ask for a cameo by Diana Prince.
Oh and one serious question: where's HYDRA in all this? Are they Leviathan?
I am going to guess that Leviathan will be the portion of Hydra that infected the USSR. Given the time period, it would make sense to have SSR's major enemy tie into the cold war.
I think Leviathan is to the Communist block as Hydra is to Germany. At least that's my understanding. I too wonder if they will be related.
As for Mark Hoover's concerns I think the AV club said it well. "Marvel's Peggy Carter has to be careful not to exaggerate to the point of caricature."
But I'm far from the point were it's bothersome. I really like the show. Hayle Atwell it a great actress and the production and lighting look so much better than AoS.
I just had, HAD to share this :D it made me laugh so much
Pretty funny. Brings up the whole timeline weirdness though.
The fact that they had Stark's dad in WWII with Cap still boggles my mind. Assuming Tony Stark is around 40ish, and his dad was around 30 during WWII, in order for the numbers to be right his dad would have waited until around 60 or so to father a child. Stark's lucky to have any memories of his father at all.
|
How about some more drinking too. In '46 wasn't there a lot of racism and ethnocentricity too? Maybe play up those themes as well.
Heck I don't want any of that. I just want a show about spies, pretty girls, handsome men and fighting set in the 40's. I have just about as much "real" as I can handle in my regular life, on most of the shows I watch, the books I read and what not. The whole reason I'm on these boards was to riff about fantasy games as an escape.
No more reality. Give me a fantasy of '46. Heck, if it wasn't specifically Marvel I'd ask for a cameo by Diana Prince.
Oh and one serious question: where's HYDRA in all this? Are they Leviathan?
My point exactly. :D
I just had, HAD to share this :D it made me laugh so muchPretty funny. Brings up the whole timeline weirdness though.
The fact that they had Stark's dad in WWII with Cap still boggles my mind. Assuming Tony Stark is around 40ish, and his dad was around 30 during WWII, in order for the numbers to be right his dad would have waited until around 60 or so to father a child. Stark's lucky to have any memories of his father at all.
Not exactly true. My Father was born in 1913 and I was born in 1965. He remained healthy and active until a series of mini strokes slowly debilitated him. He died in 1995 and I still have many memories of my childhood with him.
Iron man 2....
Did they give any dates as to when the Howard Stark/Walt Disney video was made?
I remember that the Stark Expo was something 'dad loved' and they hadn't done one in years or what not... did they say anywhere how far back it was? We got to see a young tony there... may help narrow it down.
Did anyone see a date for when he was killed in that paper in Winter Soldier?
I don't have High-definition here, so the fine details can be fuzzy sometimes...
FRANKLY, they probably should have had Tony's genius GRANDfather be the one that helped Cap in WWII... that would have fixed things up a bit.
|
The fact that they had Stark's dad in WWII with Cap still boggles my mind. Assuming Tony Stark is around 40ish, and his dad was around 30 during WWII, in order for the numbers to be right his dad would have waited until around 60 or so to father a child. Stark's lucky to have any memories of his father at all.
If Howard was 27 when we see him at the World's Fair in Captain America, 29 at the film's conclusion and 30 during Agent Carter, then he would have been 49 years old in 1965, which is the year Robert Downey Jr was born. Especially if we presume (not without some justification, I should think) that Howard's wife was significantly younger than he was, I don't see much to make that timeline infeasible - and even if we don't, couples in their forties have healthy children all the time.
I think it's fine...a lot of male professionals nowadays put off starting a family until their 50's and 60's. As long as Mrs Stark is a younger woman it works (and if anyone is going to have a wife significantly younger than him, its going to be rich playboy).
Unless there's a time loop in there somewhere. What if Tony's his own father?
...
I don't much dwell on such details. You've got a kid that grew up in Brooklyn in the 40's who is not sexist or racist; he doesn't even have that much of an accent.
Then you have a guy turned into a monster by gamma rays. Really? Said monster falls from the sky PRE-alien invasion and a janitor witnessing the event just sort of shrugs.
There's a norse god.
You've got magnetics plus jet thrusters for flight on the last dude. How does THAT equal stable flight at high speeds?
At the end of the day, who really cares. Carter had some training in the war; that apparently makes her smarter, faster and more enduring than EVERY man on her team. She also makes connections better than other detectives trained specifically for federal police work.
In AoS you have cloaking on planes; the Night-Night gun; extreme fighting readiness drills with Agents Ward and then May turning Skye into a BA in like, one season.
COULD all of this happen? I suppose, but it still pushes the boundaries a lot and in some places breaks them. Are we then really all that concerned if Howard Stark had his only son when he was young enough too?
Unless there's a time loop in there somewhere. What if Tony's his own father?Possibly even his own mother, via opposite-sex cloning shenanigans. The only person he's ever really loved (or respected, or considered an equal) is himself, after all. :)
Ew. Now you've gone and reminded me of a terrible episode of the Outer Limits. Guy has sex change and goes back in time to seduce himself. Add Tony and all his freaky gadgets to the story...
Not exactly true. My Father was born in 1913 and I was born in 1965. He remained healthy and active until a series of mini strokes slowly debilitated him. He died in 1995 and I still have many memories of my childhood with him.I just had, HAD to share this :D it made me laugh so muchPretty funny. Brings up the whole timeline weirdness though.
The fact that they had Stark's dad in WWII with Cap still boggles my mind. Assuming Tony Stark is around 40ish, and his dad was around 30 during WWII, in order for the numbers to be right his dad would have waited until around 60 or so to father a child. Stark's lucky to have any memories of his father at all.
Which is great, but if he partied like Stark does, then probably an exception to the rule.
that doesn't really jive with things. I thought I recall from Iron Man that Tony was too young to run the company, which is why Stane was put in charge of the company until he came to age.
My guess is that they probably retconned Howard Stark death as back in the 70's. Note that the whole MCU thing wasn't really thought out for the First Iron Man movie, so I don't think there was concern for dates or how Howard fit into Captain America.
|
Ok you're right: sexism was rampant in '46. I suppose I just don't need to be hammered by it. Also for the men in eps 1 and 2: Jarvis is either a knob or a spy; Stark leaves; the guy in the diner; men are the bad guys; the "g-men" can't catch a fleeing criminal while Carter walks calmly down the stairs for a gag.
Men are womanizers, hedonists, pigs, foolish, unreliable, and ultimately worthless to the advancement of the plot in the first two episodes. Only a woman is worthwhile: Carter is the protagonist; the gal in the diner has to take crap; the poor roomate is a sick victim in the wrong place at the wrong time. All they need is some domestic abuse to complete things.
While your viewpoint is certainly understandable, I think that having Carter deal with some sexism is good in two ways - first, it helps set the show in it's appropriate time period to differentiate it from Agent of Shield. Second, it gives her a mundane daily struggle to go along with her action-hero troubles. The ways she deals with it and reacts to it help define her character. And, as I have said before, I expect that her earning the respect of the men in her environment is going to be a part of her arc from "captain america's girlfriend" to "founding member of SHIELD". It's a really good way to show that she has gone far.
Finally, while certainly some of the sexism is not exactly subtle, I think it's going a bit too far to say that all men in the first two episodes are useless pigheaded dolts. You can certainly see that some of the spies are pretty competent (sure, Carter constantly one-ups them, but... the show IS called Agent Carter). Jarvis is weird but reacts well under pressure. The male assassins are presented as dangerous and scary adversaries, and there's the suspiciously helpful good guy with the crutches, who seems patient, wise and understanding.
|
The series, Agent Carter, as I understand it, is supposed to lead into the Marvel One-Shot of the same name. If this is true, then the series cannot end well for her and keep the One-Shot valid. She may well solve the case, but it will cause problems within the Strategic Scientific Reserve (SSR) and she'll end up being transferred from the New York City office to the Brooklyn office where the One-Shot takes place.
If you haven't seen it, the Agent Carter One-Shot was released on the Iron Man 3 blu-ray.
That's one of the main reasons I'm looking forward to seeing how the series plays out.
well that was pretty cool, though a lot of folks making bad choices.
Simmons is pretty clearly freaked about the whole idea, and if something doesn't change her outlook soon she is on the path to being a that scientist out to "cure" the Inhumans in order to help them stop being monsters.
Mac and Bobbie....damn it..... and here I was believing the support group thing
and poor Rhaina. Careful what you wish for I guess. Hopefully the new guy can help her through it
I can't wait for next weeks episode.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
and poor Rhaina. Careful what you wish for I guess. Hopefully the new guy can help her through it
I have trouble feeling sympathy for Raina.
|
Some initial thoughts.
And was the baroness from the episode supposed to be "The Baroness" and wife of Baron Zemo?
Although in the end credit scene of Captain America Winter Soldier, Baron von Strucker does say, "We will feed them (SHIELD) the other HYDRA cells to keep them off our scent."
For those of you who watch the series but don't really read the comics, the eyeless guy would appear to be a powered down version of the Inhuman known as the Reader, I guess they may simplify his powers for the series.
Next week, Lady Sif rejoins the series.
Here's my question, in the Mockingbird side plot where they are looking for Nick Fury's toolbox, who do you think they are working for or planning for what contingency?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Given that Kree ruins are in Puerto Rico, did anyone find themselves amused that Raina sort of ended up looking like a Chupacabra?
Chupacabra, yeah that is funny that you say that MMCJawa. I wonder if she will be poisonous or have some kind of plant based abilities.
as far as Bobbie and Mac go I figure it's one of 4 options
1) HYDRA: don't like this option because A) it's been done already and B) It doesn't make sense, Coulson and company would be long dead if they had been
2) Alternate SHIELD; This is the one I favor. There is probably some survivng SHIELD upper ranks who are none to happy Fury handed things over to Coulson to rebuild. These are probably people who never liked Fury to begin with. They feel they should be the ones to rebuild the organization their way and they want the toybox to do that. Even before last night Mac has been feeling out the people around him to see just how loyal they are to Coulson and more than once he's tried to get them to doubt him. Could be he was sent in to break Coulson's team from inside and bring them to the new fold.
3) Tony Stark: Tony looks like he plans to take over the job of protecting the world and he already has some ex-SHIELD working for him. He would know about the Toybox and he would know about Coulson
4)Nick Fury: Nick is out there somewhere playing his own game. Maybe he needs his Toybox back or maybe it's not so much steal it as to make certain that certain files float to the top to guide Couson and crew in specific directions
7. They are worried that Colson is going to melt down (again) and want S.H.I.E.L.D. to continue.
as far as Bobbie and Mac go I figure it's one of 4 options
Spoiler:1) HYDRA: don't like this option because A) it's been done already and B) It doesn't make sense, Coulson and company would be long dead if they had been
2) Alternate SHIELD; This is the one I favor. There is probably some survivng SHIELD upper ranks who are none to happy Fury handed things over to Coulson to rebuild. These are probably people who never liked Fury to begin with. They feel they should be the ones to rebuild the organization their way and they want the toybox to do that. Even before last night Mac has been feeling out the people around him to see just how loyal they are to Coulson and more than once he's tried to get them to doubt him. Could be he was sent in to break Coulson's team from inside and bring them to the new fold.
3) Tony Stark: Tony looks like he plans to take over the job of protecting the world and he already has some ex-SHIELD working for him. He would know about the Toybox and he would know about Coulson
4)Nick Fury: Nick is out there somewhere playing his own game. Maybe he needs his Toybox back or maybe it's not so much steal it as to make certain that certain files float to the top to guide Couson and crew in specific directions
I'm currently guessing it's some combination of 2) - 4)...
Nick Fury: Last year, Earth had a visit from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that not only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned.
Thor: My people want nothing but peace with your planet!
Nick Fury: But you're not the only ones out there, are you? And you're not the only threat. The world is filling up with people that can't be matched, that can't be controlled!...
Thor: Your work with the Tesseract is what drew Loki to it... and his allies. It is a signal to the Realm that Earth is ready for a higher form of war!
That could also segue into indirect links/parallels with GotG2 and the eventual discovery of the Psyche-Magnitron by Captain Carol Danvers.
you forgot
Spoiler:Gen. Talbot.
Another Bobbi & Mac possibility:
So I am the only one thinking of S.W.O.R.D.?