Hi all with all the advice on builds that can be found i was thinking how meny people use that information and how meny make there own characters and not just copy someone else's idears
Most of the time I use my own builds.
Sometimes those happen to be what is suggested in the guides. I build my magus before I read much about the class and ended p with a dervish dance build using shocking grasp. I only later realized that this is what all the dex magus builds do.
I always use my own original creation, Captain Superbat, the super soldier alien ninja who has a chainsaw for a hand and uses a shotgun to kill zombies with, along with his horse Silver the Rockethorse, and his boy sidekick Wort who will one day be the undisputed King after a watery tart gives him a proper sword.
Nobody better steal my idea! >:(
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It really, really, REALLY depends on you as a person.
I built an aasimar Life Oracle, not based on any threads at all, but because I thought the idea of a 'fallen angel' who appears on the Material Plane to accomplish some great deed was really cool. The GM allowed me an awesome background story, and, although aasimar are massively nerfed in our world (as my GM put it, she's "a human with wings, without the bonus feats or skills"), I love love LOVE playing her in this role, and it's been an incredibly satisfying experience.
*HOWEVER*, once I came up with the character concept, her background, her personality, and a complete idea of "who she was", I *DID* come to the forums to figure out how to make her as effective as possible, *AFTER* I'd completely built her. (Initial stats, feats, race, alignment, skills, etc.)
So I already know that at 3rd level, she's taking the "extra mystery" feat and taking Life Link and Energy Body. Not something I would have thought of offhand, but something recommended on the forums.
So my $0.02 is that I come up with a character concept and background, including race, alignment, initial attributes, feats, and skills, and THEN look at the forums to see, "Where should he/she go from here?"
It's a combo.
EDIT: And I *NEVER* take what's posted on the threads as "gospel"; just as recommendations as to how to make my PC more effective. In our CC campaign my fighter was nearly useless due to a lack of hit points, low AC, and low Will save. So I checked the forums on how to "fix" him, and he's been a cornerstone of the group since I spent a couple of levels following the board's recommendations. On the other hand, my plan for my angel deviates from the boards significantly, as I'm hoping to run her through the entire Second Darkness campaign without her ever making an attack roll! (I've been the frontline fighter for 4 campaigns now, so I'm on strike as 'the guy who stands in front and deals/takes massive damage'. A pacifist angel is the perfect solution.)
I use others ideas as inspiration, but I use my own takes on some of the concepts.
Once, long, long ago as a youngster first playing this game, I played characters that were blatant ripoffs of literary characters, most notably Strider, who was my favorite LoTR character.
(Note: I did not care that much for that imposter "Aragorn" who showed up about halfway through "RotK" and claimed to have once been "Strider" but that's another story).
But after about six months of playing I decided that I didn't really enjoy playing other people's creations and since then I've always created what I believe to be unique, interesting and fun to play characters that tend to be a bit off the beaten path from a general game play perspective.
It is worth noting that I enjoy creating custom races as well.
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When I build a character I will look at a guide to find feats that I would have missed. I never live by guides but I make a point to look through then to see tips or suggestions that I either take or ignore. I have a player who refuses to make a choice about his character unless it is in treantmonks guides and that bothers me.
I have to admit that I pretty deliberately avoid guides at all costs. :)
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In my experience, rather than planning a build in advance, a character often benefits greatly from the player simply paying close attention to how the characters and campaigns storyline develops and then choosing options which synergize with either the setting, party, or both. This approach to character building most often results in PC's which mesh with a campaign far better than a PC whose advancement was planned in advance before beginning play.
I generally take inspiration from guides or other people's ideas, but do my best to make it my own after and feel unique. Occasionally, that means sub-par choices but usually not enough to really hurt a character.
On an amusing note, my most recent character build has brought every other player and DM in our group the conclusion I am never allowed to play any monks ever again (currently a Kensai 9/MoMS 2 Samsaran). For reference, she exclusively uses a fighting fan and outside the burst from her spells occasionally, had very little on the side of damage but was extremely difficult to harm or kill (high saves, evasion, huge AC, crane wing and deflect arrows).
Character guides are good for tactics more than builds - unless you're playing PFS. It's more useful to tailor a character to the world he's in or style of campaign than it is for 'uber'ness.
Our campaign world has extended rules for alchemy (messing with the Hardness and Hit Points of substances, so steel-hard glass is possible, turning iron into adamantine or silver into mithral, etc) and a host of forgotten magical techniques waiting to be rediscovered. My Wizard is built to make cool stuff and run a merchant empire - because making cool stuff isn't cheap!
In my experience, rather than planning a build in advance, a character often benefits greatly from the player simply paying close attention to how the characters and campaigns storyline develops and then choosing options which synergize with either the setting, party, or both. This approach to character building most often results in PC's which mesh with a campaign far better than a PC whose advancement was planned in advance before beginning play.
Favoriting this one isn't enough. This is HOW TO PLAY (in my opinion).
The guides tell me what I 'should' take. Actually playing with the other players and the campaign tells me what I WILL take. And yes, the two frequently differ.
In my experience, rather than planning a build in advance, a character often benefits greatly from the player simply paying close attention to how the characters and campaigns storyline develops and then choosing options which synergize with either the setting, party, or both. This approach to character building most often results in PC's which mesh with a campaign far better than a PC whose advancement was planned in advance before beginning play.
Favoriting this one isn't enough. This is HOW TO PLAY (in my opinion).
The guides tell me what I 'should' take. Actually playing with the other players and the campaign tells me what I WILL take. And yes, the two frequently differ.
Thanks, NobodysHome. Kind words indeed. Best of luck to you.
Since I rarely know what class I will take next, I try my best to be original with all my characters.
In my experience, rather than planning a build in advance, a character often benefits greatly from the player simply paying close attention to how the characters and campaigns storyline develops and then choosing options which synergize with either the setting, party, or both. This approach to character building most often results in PC's which mesh with a campaign far better than a PC whose advancement was planned in advance before beginning play.
Favoriting this one isn't enough. This is HOW TO PLAY (in my opinion).
The guides tell me what I 'should' take. Actually playing with the other players and the campaign tells me what I WILL take. And yes, the two frequently differ.
This is A way to play, and it is the course my own characters take more often than not. But it is perfectly reasonable for a player to play his character as if that character has a destiny in sight and to pursue that destiny regardless of the circumstances around them. That might not be the best tactical approach for the overall party, but it's perfectly acceptable role playing.
I love you, Adamantine Dragon, because you are quite the literalist. Of course you are correct. You may replace my "THE" with "MY FAVORITE".
I come up with my own ideas on what type of character I'd like to play, generally what sort of personality I think they should have (though that often changes to some degree as I play them more), and the types of things I'd like them to be able to do.
However, I do often check out Guides just to have a better idea of the options available to me. I never really follow builds, necessarily (unless I see something that looks particularly fun), but I do like to check out suggestions for feats or spells, etc. That just helps give me an idea how to tweak what my character does or be more efficient at the things I'd already decided I want my character to be good at.
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Really, there's two different "builds" to a character: The RP side and the mechanical side, and these often intertwine quite deeply.
For the RP side, the parts of the character that for the most part lack a mechanical role, I totally suggest stealing from things that you like. I see a character I like (Akihiko from Persona 3/A), the design jumps out at me, and I want to play someone who looks like that. And then I'll see a personality archetype that I like (Natsu from Fairy Tail), and I'll want to incorporate the parts of that of which appeal to me into my character until I have a large and probably deeply asian influenced soup of a character who really shows off the kind of character I want to play. Sometimes I think people are really too afraid of being called unoriginal to the point where it stifles them.
For the mechanical side, I really like guides. I like the concept, and I enjoy guides that don't advocate a single style of play. That's why I've never liked people rating the different styles of builds (Saying "don't play a TWF Ranger, an archery Ranger is okay, but a switch hitter is THE BEST), because I think it pigeonholes the class a bit too much (certain exceptions apply, like the Hexcrafter Magus, which is almost a different class.)
Mechanics are hard, and not everyone can be adept as finding what makes their characters work in their mind. Take for example someone who wants to play a gambler character, and loves cards. Most of them aren't going to know about this feat which basically allows them to play Gambit, even though it might be flavorful and perfect for them. That to me is the point of a guide, to give you ideas that you didn't have before. I know with my guide, I've turned people onto options that have showed them that the Alchemist is more versatile than they once thought.
Using guides and taking advice from the forums isn't inherently a bad thing, as long as it doesn't stifle your character development and lead you into playing in a style that doesn't work for your table any longer. But as always, the most important thing is to make sure you and the people you're playing with are having fun.
I am the most special flower
I always use my own builds. I do read suggestions of feats, spells, bloodlines, etc.
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Most of my characters in the last ten years are based on a figurine I paint.
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I never use other peoples builds. However I have over 20 years of RPG experance, and starting playing pathfinder back during the open play test. I do look and take advice because you can allows miss something that would fit your character well. What I bring to any table is a unique character that can do there job and do it well. They are by far not min/maxed as they could be. However there not a waste of space in a adventuring party. If I find something that's truly broken I might make a character around it. I don't often play them as they are boring to me. They have little life out side a bunch of numbers. My best example is Calagnar Cleric(Divine Strategist)/Monk(Sensei) is not supper optimized. However he has proven to be effective. But knowing what the build is made to do. Allows me to play him better. Then if some one handed me a cleric/monk, and told me here play this.
Building a character that will stay effective past level 8. Requires a level of experience most new players just don't have. I recommend new players stick to the guide as it will keep them from falling in to pit falls. Due to the change is game play as you level up. As more things start becoming the real threat and other things become less valuable.
hey, i played a sickly bard with the following stats after race on a 25 point buy
STR 5
CON 7
DEX 14
INT 20
WIS 14
CHA 18
she was a sickly half nymph who started with fast learner and was a variant of the fetchling original. she had 7 Hit Points at level 1 and 13 skill points per level, she took toughness at level 3 to overcome her HP penalty, and by level 11, became a Lich ASAP. the preserved and cute yet creepy kind, not the rotting kind, more like a Porcelain doll than a Zombie. she manipulated others through Kindness, Generosity, and Friendlyness turning them into slaves without them knowing.
to most, she was a nice young lady, and to her slaves, she was especially sweet, other than retaining her cute appearance out of a small sense of vanity, she passed herself off as a half-elf of an exceptional bloodline.
not many people cared. she had a feat that allowed her to be healed by both positive and negative energy. allowing her to maintain her illusion.
I've built character modeled on some character in fiction I'd like to try, but they are never the same character - just inspired by.
As for specific builds, I'm too much of a tinker to use a specific build, but if I see an idea or combo that works within my character concept, I'll use it sometimes.
Most of my characters in the last ten years are based on a figurine I paint.
As a GM I used to base entire campaigns around finding a figure and thinking, "Wow, this would be a cool BBEG. Now where would he be, and what would he be doing...?"
The only build I've seen someone else post that I've been tempted to try is a cleric with a reach weapon, but that's literally the only part of the build I even remember.
I rarely get to be a player though and I love my witch too much to give her a rest when I actually get the chance.
I think the value of build threads is using the collective to help sift through the ever increasing options for whatever I might be working on building. That and in the options that folks offer that lie outside the normal optimized build for a class or concept. the build guides folks have put together are great for getting one perspective on some common options for a class from someone who took the time to sift through a huge net of stuff.
I rarely want to play someone's optimized version of a concept, but I greatly value the creative input of others who consider requests for build help and offer their ideas.
Comment award. This thread has been won.It should always be how fun the character is to play, and to play with, that is the most important.
Trying to put all your focus on how original your PC is, just makes you a hipster gamer.
Hmm... I'm pretty sure "original build" and "how fun the character is to play" are not mutually exclusive goals. I like to think you can do both. I know I have. Do we need a corollary to the Stormwind Fallacy?
I highly advocate ripping off character ideas.
This is place to do it.
You are with friends, having fun, and we love the idea of playing our favorite characters.
You can add personal touches, and make them your own.
Pretty much this exactly. Being obsessed with being "original" is overrated for the vast majority of us, and it could be a symptom of a narcissistic personality that wouldn't be much fun to be around at a gaming table anyways. Basically, if you enjoy the character concept of someone else, it should in no way be a deterrent to you playing that concept. Even straight out of the box, if you like it that much. I love reading over Ravingdork's thread for character inspiration, or other people's build threads that get my own wheels spinning. Brewer's Undeath guide and Walter's Magus guide have both spawned characters I'm either playing or about to play, with my own backstory, and quirks. On the other hand, if you have an original build, congratulations! If you've shared it on these forums, thank you! If you get upset that other people like it and want to play it.. all I can say is "What in the name of Aroden are you thinking??" It's not like anyone has any kind of proprietary rights to any Pathfinder material besides Paizo anyways!!
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Heh, now it is a sign of narcissistic personality if you like being original. Wow. That escalated quickly.
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Sometimes, I have more questions than I have the capacity to be nice...
hey, i played a sickly bard with the following stats after race on a 25 point buySTR 5
CON 7
DEX 14
INT 20
WIS 14
CHA 18she was a sickly half nymph who started with fast learner and was a variant of the fetchling original. she had 7 Hit Points at level 1 and 13 skill points per level
...
not many people cared. she had a feat that allowed her to be healed by both positive and negative energy. allowing her to maintain her illusion.
...PROCESSING...
25 pts: Fetchling original(+2Dex, -2Wis, +2Cha) Half-Nymph? Unknown...
Str 7 = +4 pts (-2 Variant racial?)
Con 7 = +4 pts
Dex 14 = -5 pts
Int 18 = -17 pts (+2 Racial variant?)
Wis 14 = -5 pts
Cha 16 = -10 pts (+2 Racial variant?)
Total points = -37/+8 or 29.... ??
Bard HD = d6(-2Con) 4HP at level 1 or 5 if favored class bonus?
Bard skills = 6+Int(5) = 11 per level, 12 if favored class bonus?
Feat for positive and negative energy healing....
...searching...
...searching...
...located!
Life-Dominant Soul
...ERROR! - Feat is race exclusive...
Please re-access memory archives and then resubmit information.
Alternatively, specify custom game rules and information for more accurate processing.
Heh, now it is a sign of narcissistic personality if you like being original. Wow. That escalated quickly.
Actually, what I said was being OBSESSED with being original COULD be a sign of a narcissistic personality. Seen that more than once play out into a truism. Everyone likes being original, though. And it is an accomplishment when you create something unique, it's just when you start feeling jealous over your creation when someone else takes it and uses it, that is a problem. Or when you look down your nose at a player who copied someone's build feat for feat off of these boards. Bottom line, if that happened, and the player is playing something they enjoy and you're playing something "unique", let them have their fun and you have yours.
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Heh, now it is a sign of narcissistic personality if you like being original. Wow. That escalated quickly.
The title of the thread is a question "How Original Are You?" This automatically makes it a competition. Setting up parameters as to "using forum builds" vs "coming up with your own" neatly establishes conflict between people.
I don't think it was an escalation to narcissism, I think narcissism was inherent in the topic. Defending your lack or capacity for uniqueness at all under such a banner is an indictment of "I need to make a point about being original". Regardless of what that point is. This is why blackbloodtroll won the thread with his comment about it's not the originality that matters, but are you and your friends having fun? Because we are playing pretend together! It's a game, and a game of imagination and storytelling, at that. As long as what you are doing captures your imagination then originality is a pointless pursuit.
Does this make looking for a feeling of uniqueness then become a martyred pursuit? Of course not. You should feel special playing your game of pretend with your friends. If you don't, then you should look into why you do not feel like you are important, and address that instead of this unicorn hunt for "original". I'd rather hunt down a really good time, then hunt down a perfectly unique idea. Further disparagement comes from the realization that what you think is new and exciting some other gaming table has stopped bothering with all together because it was done to death. In their game of pretend that idea was beaten like a masochist and sent to bed already.
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Heh, now it is a sign of narcissistic personality if you like being original. Wow. That escalated quickly.
I say: "I like chocolate".
You response is: "You hate vanilla, and the people who love vanilla, and you think chocolate lovers are better at being human?"
Yep, you did escalate it.
Also, I still like chocolate.
Nuclear,
Heh, now it is a sign of narcissistic personality if you like being original. Wow. That escalated quickly.I say: "I like chocolate".
You response is: "You hate vanilla, and the people who love vanilla, and you think chocolate lovers are better at being human?"
Yep, you did escalate it.
Also, I still like chocolate.
Wait, where did I do that?
I'm the only communist goblin paladin I know of.
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"You see, the point is that the strongest goblin in the world is he who stands most alone.”
Never really believed that, but it's a nice quote.
Everything's been done by now. I've had players who tell me 'Oh, you got that idea from (source)' when I've never even HEARD of that source. At this point, it's next to impossible to be original.
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"You see, the point is that the strongest goblin in the world is he who stands most alone.”
I recall more than one printing of the Charm spell mentioning how to talk a creature into delaying a dragon "just for a moment or two". This looks exactly the same.
"You got it Boss! You're the strongest! That's why we sent you out alone, because you are the best and can definitely handle it!"