One of my friends is planning to gamemaster a campaign based entirely in a city where we must enact revenge on one man, the sentinel. We start the campaign at level 5, have to purchase ability scores with a 10-point system (I know that it's lame), and we start with no gear whatsoever. In addition, we would only be leveling up once, maybe twice. If our character dies, we're out of the campaign for good.
In our party, we currently are planning on a ninja, an inquisitor, a sorcerer, a ranger, and myself as a rogue. One of my other friends has no idea of what to choose, save that he'd like to be human.
My question here is that what would be the best build (race, traits, class / class archetype, feats, etc.) to play in this intense stealth-based campaign? I haven't been playing the PFRPG very long and I don't quite know everything that this game has to offer. The GM would like if we each chose a different class if possible, or differing class archetypes.
Thanks!
IJG
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Well, this screams monk, for having no equipment. I like the Qinggong monk from the Ultimate Magic book for its magic abilities, but almost every type is useful.
Druid, especially Urban Druid archetype (you swap out a pet for a domain you spontaneously cast from). They make excellent spies, being able to wildshape into common animals (who really pays attention to the stray cats, stray dogs, and horses in the stable?). Of special note, you have no divine casters in the group, so some one who can heal would be prized.
Ranger, again with the Urban archetype, is good. Sneaking two small weapons (two-weapon fighting) into a place sure beats trying to haul a 6 foot hunk of steel.
Any spell caster you can find with Stealth as a class skill is a viable option. Low-level magic with the proper imagination can out preform an assassin's dagger.
With the group composition, it appears that you have front line fighting covered (inquisitor, ranger), as well as skills (ranger, rogue, ninja) and arcane magic (sorcerer). I belive their are cleric would have access to stealth as part of their domain, and clerics have great spell casting.
"No gear whatsoever"? Seriously? Is that even playable?
Anyway, I'd go for a Druid. Reincarnated or Urban.
Wizard. Learn Invisibility and Summons.
Take a look at the dark tapestry mystery oracle. 10 point buy means you want a SAD class, such as oracle. The Cloak of Darkness revelation gives you some free armor bonus to AC as well as some stealth bonuses. You also have stealth as a class skill and 4 skill points per level. For your oracle's curse, the haunted curse doesn't hurt you if you don't have equipment and it gives you some spells that would be useful for a stealth type campaign (e.g. minor image, ghost sound).
For race, fetchling is a good choice (even if don't go oracle). It thematically fits, you get bonuses to charisma and dexterity, and yet more bonuses to stealth. You also get darkvision, lowlight vision, and Disguise Self as a spell-like ability.
For spell selection, remember you will probably be relying heavily on your spells to contribute due to the lack of equipment and physical ability scores. That said, you'll definitely want to make sure you know Ant Haul so you can dump your strength to 7.
Other good options would be summoner or druid. Eidolons and animal companions don't depend on your stats, so they wouldn't be hurt by the low point buy.
Edit: I just looked at the archetypes for oracle. If someone else in the party has access to some of the low level save-or-suck spells, dual-cursed is a strong choice. Forcing enemies to have to save twice is nice.
Edit again: With 10 point buy, I was able to get the following scores for a fetchling (after racial mods and 4th level ability score increase): STR 7 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 18. 10 point buy can be stretched quite a bit if you are willing to find ways to make dumping stats feasible.
Wizard. Learn Invisibility and Summons.
Without a spell book? And potentially without the option of getting one, or the means to scribe new spells if you do get a book?
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Qingong Zen Archer;
- Basically SAD (Wisdom)
- Wisdom in the Flesh (Trait) to key Stealth off WIS instead of DEX.
- You will far outshine any other class for Archery in this level range. No one else is really even close;
At Level 5 you will already have the following in feats or abilities;
- Unarmed Strike 1d8
- Perfect Strike w/bow
- Precise Shot
- Pointblank Shot
- Flurry w/Bow (basically Improved Rapid Shot)
- Weapon Focus.
- Point Blank Master
And that's without spending any 'regular' feats. You still have your 1st, 3rd and 5th level feat to round out your character how you wish. If you're human you have one more to boot.
So without spending a single feat you already have all of the feats the Fighter of the same level wants and more feats than the Ranger gets...
When you level up to 6 you pick-up Improved Precise Shot (so should the Ranger, but the Fighter is waiting another 5 levels for that feat). You also get Weapon Specialization (which the Ranger can't get).
A mid-level, low wealth, low stat buy game just screams Zen Archer... Mix it with Qinggong and you can buff up your AC with Barkskin if you're feeling squishy.
I'd probably go half-orc with Acute Darkvision 90' or Human with the +2 to any two ability scores. As you can see from the above you don't need feats as much as the other martial classes to excel at Archery.
If our character dies, we're out of the campaign for good.There's hard and there's unavoidably generating bad feelings and resentment.
Not even the cruelest of ham fisted Gygax imitators tell people they claim are their friends that if their dice are unlucky they aren't welcome at game night anymore.
Just walk out of the campaign and tell him why. Either he'll reconsider or you'll at least avoid poisoning your friendships with the other players if you have different luck at dice.
This, unless the game is only going to run for 2-3 game nights.
As to my opinions on it.
Race, something with darkvision - absolute requirement IMO if you are going to spend most of your time hiding.
Class, something that has no/low gear dependency. Monk or spontaneous caster.
easy- synthesist summoner! 10 point buy is brutal, and no equipment is even worse... but synthesist solves both problems.
human, synthesist
str 8; dex 10; con 12; int 12; wis 14 (13+1 at 4th); cha 16 (14+2 racial)
use a trait to make stealth a class skill (and possibly another for bluff or disguise?)
make a quadruped. spend your 8 evolution points on:
ability increase [dexterity] (2)
skilled [stealth] (1)
claws (1)
flight (2)
wing buffet (1)
improved natural armor (2)
(or something similar to this)
melded, you'll be at 22 AC. spend a feat on weapon finesse and your 3 primary attacks will be at +8 (with a wing buffet at +3). you can pick up skill focus [stealth] if you want, but you'll already be at +21. put the eidolon's leveling point in con and take your favored class bonus in hp- average hp would be 41 plus 32 temporary hp (that's right, 73hp at 5th level with a 10 point buy). that should handle whatever you need, and you still have 2-3 feats and a couple skills to do whatever else you want.
i just noticed that i labeled improved natural armor as a 2 point evolution (which makes the math wrong)- its not, its a 1 point evolution. though, you could also take the extra evolution feat (up to twice) if you want more/different evolutions.
I am playing a wayang witch, he is super stealthy from his ractial features, particularly with the disolutions child alternate racial trait. +2 racial bonus, +4 from small, bonus to dex, and the ability to turn invisible as a racial spell like ability? Yes please. Add to that the witch starts with everything they need, namely their familiar which is also their spellbook, and themselves. They would also provide what I assume is some much neaded healing to the group (healing hex is great for a large group), and soem great debuffing abilities to help some of your partial combatants (inquisitor, rogue, ninja) be able to hit better.
There are also a couple traits in the APG that can let you have stealth as a class skill if the dm is using traits.
Sage/umbral bloodline seeker sorcerer and take eschew materials. Human would be a good choice for the extra spells known, you'll need them.
Stats I would go with:
Str 7 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 16(+2) Wis 10 Cha 9
Human
Eschew materials
Iron Will
Silent Spell
Toughness
If you get traits take ones that makes perception and disable device class skills.
Skills:
Perception
Stealth
Disable Device
Sense Motive
Climb
Swim
Acrobatics
Sage/umbral bloodline seeker sorcerer and take eschew materials...
Technically, you can't mix wild blooded and cross blooded. But ask your GM's, most allow it. If permitted, it is a nice combination.
And sorcerers already get eschew materials.
Seeker archetype doesn't get eschew materials Kydeem otherwise I wouldn't add it back in.
Personally I don't get the idiocy of not mixing wild and cross blooded, but that could just be me (by the same idea at least to how I understand it cross blooded shouldn't work at all since you are trading something that you can't trade).
"No gear whatsoever"? Seriously? Is that even playable?
Anyway, I'd go for a Druid. Reincarnated or Urban.
Reincarnated druid FTW. Just keep dying and showing up in a new body. Its a dandy way to disguise yourself.
Grab the Beast of the Society trait that lets you skulk around in wildshapes for 2x the normal duration, too. Great for sneakery.
really? nobody else is gonna suggest a rogue focused on stealth?
Why set yourself back even more?
Invulnerable Half-orc beast totem with the toothy trait and sacred tattoos alternate racial trait could also be a choice, as could doing similar with ratfolk and a tail blade for four attacks instead of just three.
Seeker archetype doesn't get eschew materials Kydeem otherwise I wouldn't add it back in.
Personally I don't get the idiocy of not mixing wild and cross blooded, but that could just be me (by the same idea at least to how I understand it cross blooded shouldn't work at all since you are trading something that you can't trade).
Huh, I was thinking of something comletely different. That seeker archtype is pretty nice.
I agree on the cross/wild mixing thing. That's why I said to check. Most GM's that I've talked to allow it.
I love sage and emyreal just to get a different casting stat. I prefer spontaneous casters. But I get tired of always being the party face.
i can't believe there's nobody else mentioning the synthesist... frankly, i don't think its as powerful as a normal summoner in a typical campaign but its amazing for a low point buy (and even more so if you're starting with no gear). with the build i suggested you're stats when melded would be: str 14; dex 18; con 14; int 12; wis 14; cha 16; 40' move, fly 40'(good); plus the stuff i previously mentioned- 22 AC, 4 natural attacks/round, +21 stealth (without any feats), and functionally 73 hp... that's crazy good for a campaign with these kinds of restrictions (plus you're starting at high enough level that you can walk around looking like a normal dude and use the summon eidolon spell to quickly meld when necessary).
really? nobody else is gonna suggest a rogue focused on stealth?
There is already a rogue and a ninja in the party...you think this person should be another one?
i can't believe there's nobody else mentioning the synthesist... frankly, i don't think its as powerful as a normal summoner in a typical campaign but its amazing for a low point buy (and even more so if you're starting with no gear). with the build i suggested you're stats when melded would be: str 14; dex 18; con 14; int 12; wis 14; cha 16; 40' move, fly 40'(good); plus the stuff i previously mentioned- 22 AC, 4 natural attacks/round, +21 stealth (without any feats), and functionally 73 hp... that's crazy good for a campaign with these kinds of restrictions (plus you're starting at high enough level that you can walk around looking like a normal dude and use the summon eidolon spell to quickly meld when necessary).
When a dm says 10 pt buy, and no gear to start the game at 5th level. He has a certain thing in mind. The synthesist really flys in the face of that expectation.
If this were a video game, absolutely, the synthesist is a great choice. But in terms of not pissing the dm off, it probably isnt a good idea. I would talk to the dm before turning up in magical power armor (the eidolon suit), even if it does serve the campaign.
But that's the fun part about synthesist summoners...really? nobody else is gonna suggest a rogue focused on stealth?There is already a rogue and a ninja in the party...you think this person should be another one?
i can't believe there's nobody else mentioning the synthesist... frankly, i don't think its as powerful as a normal summoner in a typical campaign but its amazing for a low point buy (and even more so if you're starting with no gear). with the build i suggested you're stats when melded would be: str 14; dex 18; con 14; int 12; wis 14; cha 16; 40' move, fly 40'(good); plus the stuff i previously mentioned- 22 AC, 4 natural attacks/round, +21 stealth (without any feats), and functionally 73 hp... that's crazy good for a campaign with these kinds of restrictions (plus you're starting at high enough level that you can walk around looking like a normal dude and use the summon eidolon spell to quickly meld when necessary).When a dm says 10 pt buy, and no gear to start the game at 5th level. He has a certain thing in mind. The synthesist really flys in the face of that expectation.
If this were a video game, absolutely, the synthesist is a great choice. But in terms of not pissing the dm off, it probably isnt a good idea. I would talk to the dm before turning up in magical power armor (the eidolon suit), even if it does serve the campaign.
It certainly is. But when your fun circumvents the desires of your gm, nothing good comes of it. One way or another it wont work. Either the gm will rocks fall you, or it will anger him and disrupt the game itself.
Heh. In our games if you don't piss of the DM he feels like you aren't interested.
