Before I start with the main topic I ask you to not turn this into another martial/caster thread.
I want to play no pure martial but I do not want to discuss in this thread why this is the case.
Thanks in advance.
I am looking forward to joining two different APs in the future. And I want to plan my PCs beforehand.
For both I want to play melee capable guys who have full or at least strong casting as backup alternatives. So I want to mainly go hack and slay but have all the options of a strong caster if things turn bad.
What I am more or less set about is playing a wildshape druid duerga in one of the APs. He will use his SLAs as prerequesite for arcane strike to make up for his not maxed out strength score.
For the second PC I'm not sure yet. I've had the following ideas but non of them screems "play me" loud enough yet.
- Oracle: Aasimar wood oracle using his favored class bonus to increase his wood bond revelation for good to hit and his shillelagh spell for ok damage with his club. I wanted to dip into sword saint samurai and use a bokken first but that would not work with shillelagh. Cons: Without the spell the club is bad and there are no good wood weapons. At least none that the oracle can use.
- Cleric: I can't seem to find a good that seems fun with domains that I'd like to have.
- Magus: I've already had one and while it was nice I don't want a second one so soon.
- Inquisitor: Similar to the cleric. I would have liked a trapmaster/skillmonkey inquisitor but I didn't manage to get trapfinding for him (I could dip but then it would not scale).
- Alchemist: If I get around to playing an alchemist I want one with bombs. But bomb focused alchemists seem like a bad (and MAD) idea for a melee guy.
- Summoner: I don't like the class and want to avoid it. Especially the synth.
Anything I'm not thinking about? Another class? Or an idea to make the listed concepts be cool and work?
I do not need a super optimised PC. Most of us play on a rather low optimization level.
Are you permitted 3rd party materials? There are several interesting options there if you are able to branch out.
Just to be clear, you want to focus on combat, but have spellcasting as a backup option correct?
Just for reference, if you are allowed 3rd party material here are some of my thoughts:
1. Super genius games Archon
This is a class at first I thought was not so hot, but after a player in my group played one over a whole campaign (2nd through 13th level) I realized it actually is pretty solid. It has full bab d10 hit die and light armor, so it can hold its own in combat, and has a slightly redicued 6 level casting (progression slightly slower then a bard), with arcane spells.
Its abilities dont mesh quite as well as the magus and spell combat/spell strike, but they do work. Mostly the archon just always has something to do. It can have a good spell selection, (prepared spellbook caster) but has full bab and d10 hit die so it can mix it up in combat rather well.
2. Kobold Press Battle Scion This is an arcane paladin. It is mostly a combat focused character(full bab, d10 hit die, heavy armor) with 4 levels of spellcasting, and a 'blast' ability that scales as you level. This class has quite a bit of firepower (especially the force blaster archetype), but it has alot less casting abilities then the archon. Depending on how much casting and how much melee you want it could be a good choice.
3. Super Genius Games Godling. The godling is an insanely flexible class, it comes in 4 varieties, mighty (all combat), clever (skills/combat), adept (6 level casting 3/4 bab) and eldritch (1/2 bab 9 levels of casting). With them you can customize just about anything, for instance you could pull specific oracle revalations form different mysteries, different domains, different wizard school powers, or sorceror bloodline powers. It really gives you a whole mess of options besides the ones specifically designed for the godling. So if you are struggling to make what you want out of the standard classes, this might be the way to go.
I'll second the recommendation for inquisitor. Judgement and bane give you some great (swift action) buffs for combat which helps free up your spell slots for other purposes. For domains/inquisitions, inquisitor is easier to do than cleric. For a cleric you need to gind a god with two domains that you want together whereas with an inquisitor you only need to find a god with a single domain you want. An inquisitor probably won't be able to easily fill the skillmonkey role completely, but the bonuses you get help a lot with the skills you will have. And archetypes give you more options on what skills you get bonuses to. If someone else in the party can cover the skills you don't pick up, you're perfectly fine.
Edit: some domains/inquisitions can help with the skillmonkey role too. For example, the Trade subdomain from Travel gives you bonuses to bluff, diplomacy, or sense motive 3+Wis times per day, on top of faster movement and move action teleport.
About 3rd person stuff:
I'm not sure which pc I'm going to play in which AP. One gm allows some 3pp stuff after checking it but is rather careful witzh what to allow. An opinion whichI share.
The other one is a first time PF GM ans as such I don't want to bother her with 3pp stuff.
So I'd rather stay away from it.
Looks like I have to take another look at the inquisitor. I already wondered what an inquisitor of Lymnieris would be like. What's sure is that I would have to take celestial obedience at 3rd level.
Or one of gorum. A no-nonsense, less talk more fight guy who slaps people who fight unfair with heavy things (like his greatsword). But not every adventuring party would like to have such a guy around.
I have a new idea for a pc that could do what I want and wanted some advice on it.
Basicly it is a shoanti crusader cleric who learns to fight in the thunder and fang style, using earthbreaker and klar.
There's more info in the "People of the Storval Plateau" article in the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP (Chapter 4 - A History of Ashes). The basics...
Tribes have one Shaman (an Adept, Cleric, or Druid) with up to four apprentices. Clerical shamans worship their clan’s totems and gain domains accordingly. The favored weapon of Shoanti totems is either the klar or the longbow.
According to this I could use the klar as my favored weapon.
Going single class would take forever to reach TF because I can only take one of the needed weapon focus feats at first level (because of the BAB requirement), so the second at 3rd and TF at fifth.So my idea is to dip a level of fighter at 2nd. This pc will be rather MAD but it should work out to be a flavorfull melee combatant who can carry his own weight and has his spells as backup.
For Domain I'm thinking Weather or Liberation, which are both availiable as domains to totems according to the poster quoted above.
He needs Str 15, Dex 15, some wis for casting and can't dump cha because of channel.
Sadly the crusader doesn't stack with any archetype that exchanges channeling.
Crusader 1: Weapon focus klar (bonus), Two weapon fighting (level 1), Not sure (human)
Fighter 1: Weapon focus earthbreaker (Bonus)
Crusader 2: Thunder and fang (level 3)
As I already got the TWF penalty and the cleric BAB I'm not sure if power attack would be good (used with T&F the earthbreaker is only a onehanded weapon). So what could be a good human bonus feat for this guy? Thoughness perhaps? He'll be rather squishy with all the stats he needs.
I think a Magus is still your best bet!
but i know you noticed you played one not so long ago.
well try a few archetupes or switch from STr to DEX or vica versa.
chose a difrent alignment and it wil be a totaly difrent experiance.
but you would stil be an uber melee/caster :-)
or one thing i have been thinking about is cleric/paladin :-)
I think a Magus is still your best bet!
Yes, I know and I'm going to play another magus some time in the future, I guess. But the magus combines magic and fighting to do both at the same time. And the goal right now is to have competent melee PCs who don't have the problem that they lack options when "hit it hard" seems the wrong approach.
The crusader cleric described in my last post will not have a lot of skills to use, but he has (nearly) full casting availiable. So he can still use his at will orizons and most of his other spells out of combat or in special combat situations becaue I plan to use my weapons when the fighting starts.
The paladin is something I want to avoid this time because of the alignment restrictions and the cleric is what I'm just trying to build(crusader archetype).
I can't recommend and oracle of battle enough for this type of build.
I keep reading this but somehow I don't see the reason when I look at the relevations.
Is it surprising charge because you can full-attack more often?Or weapon mastery?
I guess I'm either missing or underrating something. But what is it?
Did you consider Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple?
As for the Wood Oracle, the Longspear is a good wooden weapon.
An Inquisitor makes a very good skill monkey. You are already getting a scaling bonus on three skills, intimidate, sense motive and tracking. Play a human and buy up your INT to at least 12 and you will have plenty of skills. If you take the conversion inquisition you can dump CHA and still have decent social skills.
Take the feat improve monster lore and a single point into the appropriate knowledge and assuming a 12 INT, and a 16 WIS you will have +11 to identify monsters at 6th level. As for trap finding you are a WIS based class with perception as a class skill so that should not be a problem. Anyone can take disable device to deal with mundane traps, and a trait can make it a class skill. Use dispel magic to deal with magical traps and you should be fine.
Use the human favored class bonus for extra spells. Take Guidance as one of your 0 level spells to give you a unlimited +1 skill bonus on any skill.
I can't recommend and oracle of battle enough for this type of build.I keep reading this but somehow I don't see the reason when I look at the relevations.
Is it surprising charge because you can full-attack more often?
Or weapon mastery?
I guess I'm either missing or underrating something. But what is it?
It depends on what you want to do. But, you can get proficiency with all martial weapons and heavy armor (so it deals with your frustration with there being no good weapons for you Wood Oracle). You can eventually pick up 1-2 free uses of Stoneskin, which is rather solid (though not until 11th level). The surprise charge is decent. The ability to roll initiative twice (or three times at higher level) can be helpful, particularly with the ability to always be able to act in a surprise round.
And, it's a good way to make a maneuver-centered build, since that revelation uses your class level in place of your BAB for CMB/CMD for that type of maneuver, and you get the Improved and Greater versions of that maneuver as a part of the revelation. Weapon Mastery is a nice perk if you know what weapon you want to go with (it's three feats in one revelation for whatever weapon you choose), and it's doubly helpful if you decide to go for a maneuver build that uses a weapon (like Guisarme for Trip or Ranseur for Disarm, etc.) because you'll eventually get an extra +2 to your CMB for that maneuver.
I just started running one for PFS. I'm actually pretty excited to keep playing with him.
@BigAl:
I consideres them but didn't think they are what I'm looking for. But I'll take another look.
@fretgod99:
I was frustrated because the wood bond only works with very few weapons, not because I don't get better proficiencies. But other than that this ability is nice, you're right. Maneuvers are not my thing. So all in all the battle oracle doesn't convince me.
@Master Elodin:
I'm starting at 1st level. Until I'm high enough level to become eldritch knight I'll be a mage with a fighter dip, not a melee with spellcasting.
Does anyone have some advice for the shoani cleric build? Anything wrong with him that I didn't think about?
Synthesist Summoner is cheeseland for melee tank types. It can out AC any other class in the game easily. A 1L dip is also nice for most roguey type characters (scent ability). You wanting to avoid cheeseland is totally understandable - its pure cheese.
None of the cleric archetypes come close to being as good as a straight cleric. Since you don't like the straight cleric, this is not your path.
Vivisectionist is an Alchemist Archetype - it is the rogue/melee with mutagens/potions.
The mount spell is better than trapfinding. You have your mount lead and set off traps for you.
OH! There was a spiked pit trap before that doorway. Poor horsey :(
I'd go with the eldritch knight, though I suppose it depends on what level you're starting and how soon you want to be a viable caster...
+1