Does anyone have any links or resources for facing rules for pathfinder? Googling around I found:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.htm
But I was curious if anyone else had come up with some options for it.
You can benefit from Total Cover* while using a tower shield. That's the closest thing I can think of.
Just adding a mechanic where you decide which way you're facing at the end of your turn seems kind of unrealistic to me. It's so easy for an opponent to skip around you for 15~ feet of movement and say they're 'attacking you from behind'. Who would let that happen?
It seems to me like it would skew big boss battles. I imagine somebody would take an interpretation where a creature that is attacked at the side or front has difficulty defending itself; therefore, given that so many iconic boss battles are a single creature at APL+3 and the typical party includes four characters (which often enjoy flanking), this probably at least gives them an extra couple points of attack bonus.
On the other hand, it would work both ways. The party may be more threatened then normal when they're swamped by twelve low-CR enemies.
It probably makes encounters with a flying creature a little harder for terrestrials, since they would probably end their rounds facing a side, and don't usually have an ally that can prevent somebody from sitting on top of them. Even if they declared facing above, then the flying creature could attack from the side instead of on top.
You might try the Houserules forum.
What are you trying to get out of facing rules?
Thinking about it, my problem is more with perception and less with combat facing.
I don't like how perception gives everyone 360 degrees of total awareness. If someone is on a rooftop (out of combat) and no one mentions they look up, I don't want to hand out a perception check to notice them. Same thing with being followed.
My other issues are when people "search a room" and expect it covers going over everything with a fine tooth comb.
Recently the party had a fight in a church, and there was an enemy in the rafters. The enemy came down eventually, things occurred, the fight was over. Afterwards comes "we search the room" I describe the doors, windows, altars, pews, contents of the pews, whats beyond the doors. I don't feel this includes climbing up the ceiling to search the rafters. But I also don't feel I need to ask the pc's if they're searching the rafters, because the pc's always place extra emphasis on anything you mention.
PC's: we enter the corridor.
DM: any particular order?
PC: um, we enter in this order, and we have our weapons out
DM ; (sigh)
So I guess I'm more interested in house rules for perception checks.
I don't like how perception gives everyone 360 degrees of total awareness. If someone is on a rooftop (out of combat) and no one mentions they look up, I don't want to hand out a perception check to notice them. Same thing with being followed.
The rolling of a d20 often represents a combination of things. For perception it represents level of attentiveness, luck, facing, observation to detail, blind spots (i.e. overhanging branches) and the combined use of all of their senses.
If they happen to be generally facing the wrong way as they walk you can give them a circumstantial penalty, especially if their hearing or other relevant senses are impaired. If they are forced to look the wrong way you should definitely give them a penalty. i.e. being tied up, scanning ahead from the front of the formation. They can gain a circumstantial bonus or penalty if they specify that they are looking all around them as opposed to scanning a specific area. If they suspect the enemy will come from one direction, they can gain a bonus for scanning that area primarily.
My other issues are when people "search a room" and expect it covers going over everything with a fine tooth comb.
How much detail are you giving them about the room? If you didn't say the rooms rafters were extensive, among other things, you can expect their search roll to cover anything that a character could think of looking at. Having just seen an enemy drop from the rafters would essentially give them the idea to check the spot where the enemy was hiding without necessarily climbing up (i.e. a brief ground level scan). Looting after a battle doesn't just mean searching the bodies, it means searching the areas that you know they could have dropped something. The randomness factor of a d20 roll takes this into account, as well as luck. Just give them a circ. penalty or bonus based on describe an added focus to the areas in question. If one rolls high enough on their search describe the room again to them and mention that something seems out of place as they look around or that they might see a glint of metal or something. Make them do an intelligence check if you have to (i.e. they think that glint was just a nail).
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PC's: we enter the corridor.DM: any particular order?
PC: um, we enter in this order, and we have our weapons out
DM ; (sigh)
So I guess I'm more interested in house rules for perception checks.
I had that problem a few years ago which inspired me to make this Marching Order document. It represents the standard marching order of the PCs on the grid, so at any point I need to know who is affected by what prior to combat beginning, I can reference the chart.
Each player's name is set next to a letter on the legend, and in each grid section, the letter represents the player's position.
They can change the order, obviously, but unless they do, this is the default. It has worked great and was well-received by my players. If you use it, I suggest using pencil or laminating it and using dry erase markers.
Additionally, for weapons drawn or otherwise, I took a 1 inch wooden dowel and cut it into 3 inch segments. One half is painted green, one half is painted red. Each PC receives one and with green side up, their weapons are drawn, red side up they're sheathed. The player may, at any time outside of combat, before initiative is called for, change their readiness.
Hope that helps.
You can benefit from Total Cover* while using a tower shield. That's the closest thing I can think of.
And even that's not really about facing. A tower shield is basically a portable wall that you can put down wherever you want. The cover is granted because the shield is positioned between you and your attacker, not because you're facing a particular way. You can set your shield and still be completely aware of everything in a 360-degree arc.
PCs routinely walk into places inhabited by critters that want to kill them. PCs trained in Perception are trained to look all around them, and up and down, to make sure those critters aren't about to kill them. That's what having a high bonus means -- that the PC frequently looks around, and stops and listens, and looks up, and all that. That behavior is what gives them the high bonus.
If you take that away from them and demand that they explicitly tell you everywhere they're looking at all times, then finish the job: remove ALL skills from the game and replace them with roleplaying. And since skill checks won't be numeric anymore, get rid of attack rolls and so on: "You autmatically fail because you didn't specifically tell me which gap in his armor you're striking for. Next!"
Recently the party had a fight in a church, and there was an enemy in the rafters. The enemy came down eventually, things occurred, the fight was over. Afterwards comes "we search the room" I describe the doors, windows, altars, pews, contents of the pews, whats beyond the doors. I don't feel this includes climbing up the ceiling to search the rafters. But I also don't feel I need to ask the pc's if they're searching the rafters, because the pc's always place extra emphasis on anything you mention.
So I guess I'm more interested in house rules for perception checks.
These aren't really house rules, but when your players take 20 on checks constantly, time is passing. Any enemy aware of them will have extra time for additional preparations; while your PC was climbing up the walls - you should ask who is specifically doing this - he's put himself in a prime position to be the first fatality of the night: he's lost his dex bonus to AC (sneak attack!) and if damaged, has to make a check to avoid falling.
Additionally, your guy in the rafters can use consumables just like the PCs; just because it's loot on an NPC to the PCs doesn't mean the NPC isn't going to use it (i.e. potion of invisibility).
Remember, perception checks are modified by distance (+1/10 feet), favorable/unfavorable (lighting is good/poor -2/+2 DC or even terrible +5 DC) and a bag full of other things that many GMs don't take into account.
I, for example, also increase the chance of random encounters slightly each time they take 20 to account for patrols and the like.
Again, hope that helps.
I had that problem a few years ago which inspired me to make this Marching Order document. It represents the standard marching order of the PCs on the grid, so at any point I need to know who is affected by what prior to combat beginning, I can reference the chart.
Each player's name is set next to a letter on the legend, and in each grid section, the letter represents the player's position.
They can change the order, obviously, but unless they do, this is the default. It has worked great and was well-received by my players. If you use it, I suggest using pencil or laminating it and using dry erase markers.
Additionally, for weapons drawn or otherwise, I took a 1 inch wooden dowel and cut it into 3 inch segments. One half is painted green, one half is painted red. Each PC receives one and with green side up, their weapons are drawn, red side up they're sheathed. The player may, at any time outside of combat, before initiative is called for, change their readiness.
Hope that helps.
Brilliant.
You can benefit from Total Cover* while using a tower shield. That's the closest thing I can think of.And even that's not really about facing. A tower shield is basically a portable wall that you can put down wherever you want. The cover is granted because the shield is positioned between you and your attacker, not because you're facing a particular way. You can set your shield and still be completely aware of everything in a 360-degree arc.
4 A tower shield can instead grant you cover. See the description.
and
In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. As a standard action, however, you can use a tower shield to grant you total cover until the beginning of your next turn. When using a tower shield in this way, you must choose one edge of your space. That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only. You gain total cover for attacks that pass through this edge and no cover for attacks that do not pass through this edge (see cover). The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.
This seems to imply that when you use your tower shield for cover it either negates your shield bonus to AC or it only provides you with a shield bonus according to facing rules. I believe the latter is true as the shield adopts a facing when used this way. At all other times, your character is assumed to be moving, circling, shielding and dodging on the spot while everyone else is taking their turn.
PCs routinely walk into places inhabited by critters that want to kill them. PCs trained in Perception are trained to look all around them, and up and down, to make sure those critters aren't about to kill them. That's what having a high bonus means -- that the PC frequently looks around, and stops and listens, and looks up, and all that. That behavior is what gives them the high bonus.If you take that away from them and demand that they explicitly tell you everywhere they're looking at all times, then finish the job: remove ALL skills from the game and replace them with roleplaying. And since skill checks won't be numeric anymore, get rid of attack rolls and so on: "You autmatically fail because you didn't specifically tell me which gap in his armor you're striking for. Next!"
Facing modifies some skills and feats. There are, for example, penalties for flank and rear areas with perception spot checks. And, there are feats that reduce that penalty. This doesn't prevent the use of skills, it simply modifies them for the general facing of the character. The idea that characters spin 360 degrees every six seconds and are equally aware of everything in all directions is, to me, more absurd. In the old one minute melee rounds that would have made more sense to me. While you can argue that the d20 roll represents the variation in perception due to facing (which is not represented in the game otherwise) it is equally possible to say that modifiers due to facing do so.
Personally I use facing based on the rules in the old Unearthed Arcana book. I've had no problems or complaints from my players while doing so. But, as I've mentioned before, a lot of my players were / are wargamers and facing is a standard consideration in a lot of miniature games. They expect it to be there :)
As in all things, ymmv.
well my player's rogues were always fans of facing rules.
This seems to imply that when you use your tower shield for cover it either negates your shield bonus to AC or it only provides you with a shield bonus according to facing rules. I believe the latter is true as the shield adopts a facing when used this way. At all other times, your character is assumed to be moving, circling, shielding and dodging on the spot while everyone else is taking their turn.
Yes, it provides you cover, but it doesn't assume you are *facing* any particular direction; it just assumes that you have planted the shield in a particular location and are hiding behind it.
You can plant the shield on the west side of your square and still perceive things that are happening east of you. A rogue wouldn't get sneak attack just for striking from the opposite side of where your tower shield is.
Yes, it provides you cover, but it doesn't assume you are *facing* any particular direction; it just assumes that you have planted the shield in a particular location and are hiding behind it.
You can plant the shield on the west side of your square and still perceive things that are happening east of you. A rogue wouldn't get sneak attack just for striking from the opposite side of where your tower shield is.
What about the AC bonus for your shield?
4 A tower shield can instead grant you cover. See the description.and
In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. As a standard action, however, you can use a tower shield to grant you total cover until the beginning of your next turn. When using a tower shield in this way, you must choose one edge of your space. That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only. You gain total cover for attacks that pass through this edge and no cover for attacks that do not pass through this edge (see cover). The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.