| 54 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Does the Halfling alternate Racial Trait Warslinger apply to all sling weapons (slings, sling staves, double slings), or only Slings?
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Give them time. They do have other things to work on besides FAQ entries, you know. And I can imagine some of the FAQ rulings requiring getting a few people together in a room to debate the pros and cons before making a decision, which means waiting until every necessary person is available, not just waiting for one person to get to it.
But it's good that you bumped the thread. More people will see it and click the "FAQ" button. (hint, hint)
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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But it's good that you bumped the thread. More people will see it and click the "FAQ" button. (hint, hint)
I will admit to having had an ulterior motive when I made that post.
And to having one, right now...
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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So, a week later and no action? Considering the number of times I've seen this question raised, and the number of people who flagged it for FAQ, does it really deserve to be ignored?Give them some time. They're doing their due diligence and reading all the opinions on the matter in all the other threads. That should take them at least another week.
Now that it's been nearly two weeks since the last post (and almost four since the first one) can I complain? /-:
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Bah.
And GenCon comes next, with the rollout of the fall line after that. Then comes Christmas, after which is the RPG Superstar competition, when suddenly, planning for Paizocon gets rolling. THEN there's the "convention crush" where they have to start playing catch-up with all their product lines so that they get everything on the right schedule for the upcoming conventions. Whoops, Paizocon is upon us!
They're a grown-up company. They can handle a single question with a "yes" or "no" answer. If they don't want to handle this (and other questions like it) then the FAQ system can be put away and that little bit of stress removed from their business.
FAQ'd. Hopefully it shall work with all sling weapons, doing otherwise seems like a pretty silly distinction.
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Bah.
And GenCon comes next, with the rollout of the fall line after that. Then comes Christmas, after which is the RPG Superstar competition, when suddenly, planning for Paizocon gets rolling. THEN there's the "convention crush" where they have to start playing catch-up with all their product lines so that they get everything on the right schedule for the upcoming conventions. Whoops, Paizocon is upon us!
They're a grown-up company. They can handle a single question with a "yes" or "no" answer. If they don't want to handle this (and other questions like it) then the FAQ system can be put away and that little bit of stress removed from their business.
I think you need to calm down and take a big drink of politeness juice. We'll get to it when we get to it, and you being rude about it isn't going to make us want to answer your question any faster than the others in the queue ahead of it.
Not that we really need to justify the delay with a reason, but today is the first day since PaizoCon that Jason has been well enough to be in the office. We can't get a consensus of the design team unless all three members of the design team are present.
In fact, this was one of the easy questions I had lined up to post a FAQ about today.
Thanks, Sean.
Would it be helpful (for Paizo, for the community) if there were some more specific flags that could be added to questions (I think you said that was something that the current system could do)?
Something like:
- "Please rephrase question" (for questions that are too complex, or multi-part, or otherwise not well-suited to FAQ answers)
- "Under consideration" (acknowledging the question, and indicating that further posts/FAQ clicks aren't going to accelerate anything)
- "Follow rule as written" (indicating that the letter of the law holds and no interpretation is necessary, e.g., Warslinger applies to slings only)
Or is that just more work for you guys?
I think we're fine with the structure we have, even if that means some people get impatient that their specific question isn't being answered during the busiest time of the gear for a game company...
We already have a "question unclear" option for clearing a flag, no need for "please rephrase question."
All questions are technically "under consideration" until we resolve them with a FAQ or clearing them in some other way (question unclear, answered in FAQ, answered in errata, not an error, etc.).
We already have a "not an error" option, no need for a "follow rule as written" option.
Really, I file this sort of thing in the same category of people who post a question at 10pm on Saturday night, then bump it Sunday morning and are incredulous that nobody has answered their question... less than 12 hours later... on a weekend... after a game night...
Redward, thank you for your suggestions. :)
Fair enough. Thanks again!
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I think you need to calm down and take a big drink of politeness juice. We'll get to it when we get to it, and you being rude about it isn't going to make us want to answer your question any faster than the others in the queue ahead of it.
Hm. I have often been known to let my sarcasm get the better of me. I also have a bad habit of assuming everyone who reads what I say on the internet knows to use the tone of voice I have in my head when I write those words.
I apologize for being rude and pushy.
I promise that was not my intent.
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APOLOGY ACCEPTED!
NOW... WE MUST BATTLE!
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With slings?
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Slings and stones may break SKR's bones, but sling staves will never full attack him.
With slings?
NO! We must kung fu fight! Let me wrap this sling around my fist...
Official Rules Response
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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gh#v5748eaic9qus
Halfling, Warslinger: What kind of slings does the this reload ability work with?
The warslinger ability says, "Halflings with this racial trait can reload a sling as a free action." It doesn't say "any type of sling" or "all slings," just "a sling." The ability only affects standard slings, not halfling sling staffs or any other kind of sling.
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"Begone! Logic has no place here!"
Yes, holding to "a sling" meaning "a sling" rather than "any kind of sling" is "illogical."
Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it's illogical.
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I agree, it would have been cool.
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Not what most people were hoping for, but thanks regardless for the answer.
Closing the loop on these things makes life a lot easier for those of us in PFS.
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I agree, it would have been cool.wow
I don't think he meant that as a shot or a sarcastic thing. It would have been cool, but it also would have made a very powerful sub-option item that could be enhanced for melee and ranged while loaded as a free action.
Which the team decided was too much of a boon for a racial ability.
That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been cool, and it doesn't mean it might not be something the consider allowing with additional investment.
I am always glad to get answers to questions, even when I wish it went the other way. How cool is it that you can interact with developers in that way on here?
I didn't mean that sarcastically. I really do think the racial trait would have been cool if it worked on all slings. But (1) the wordage doesn't indicate that, and (2) if it allowed such a thing, I'm sure there's some weird combo it would allow where people were dual-wielding some weird power-sling that normally is a full-round action to reload.
There's always one...
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I didn't mean that sarcastically. I really do think the racial trait would have been cool if it worked on all slings. But (1) the wordage doesn't indicate that, and (2) if it allowed such a thing, I'm sure there's some weird combo it would allow where people were dual-wielding some weird power-sling that normally is a full-round action to reload.
People would read unintended uses into things?!?!?!
:)
Thanks for the flurry of FAQ's by the way.
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I didn't mean that sarcastically. I really do think the racial trait would have been cool if it worked on all slings. But (1) the wordage doesn't indicate that, and (2) if it allowed such a thing, I'm sure there's some weird combo it would allow where people were dual-wielding some weird power-sling that normally is a full-round action to reload.
Part 2: Why I get so upset about the people looking for loopholes.
They are why, quite often, we can't have nice things.
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I didn't mean that sarcastically. I really do think the racial trait would have been cool if it worked on all slings. But (1) the wordage doesn't indicate that, and (2) if it allowed such a thing, I'm sure there's some weird combo it would allow where people were dual-wielding some weird power-sling that normally is a full-round action to reload.
I did not read that statement as sarcastic. I know tone can be difficult to deduce on the internet but I have read your quotes with multiple tones some are (I believe), informative, petty, frustrated (often justified), sarcastic, apologetic, dismissive and funny. I read that statement of “Yeah it would have been “ as actual regret.
Since tone and intent can be difficult to deduce in the written word allow me to elaborate on my “WOW” I was expressing genuine amazement with the ruling even with at least one developer thinking that it would have been a “cool” option.
I would have totally understood the current ruling if the PDT had been very conservative and traditional with interpretations in the past. On the heels of the SLA/prestige requirements discussions I was amazed. Others in this same thread have expressed that same surprise.
The theoretical two weapon monstrosity is still allowed using slings and a third arm or a double sling. In fact under this ruling the double sling, slingstaff and sling create are even more illogical than
“holding to "a sling" meaning "a sling" rather than "any kind of sling" is "illogical."”
For example with the right trait or set of feats a character can reload a sling as a free action. Full attack yippie only slightly less effective than archery.
Now attach that sling to a stick, a staff you might say. Now (unless I am mistaken) not including magic there is no way in the game system to reload this “slingstaff” as a free action. So no full attacks now, and another non bow weapon bites the dust.
If however you were to attach another sling to the other end of your slingstaff you have created a “double sling” and can now use the same feats as before to reload both ends as a free action. Full attacks return due to the extra balance. All without requiring a third arm.
Now if melee and ranged in the same weapon is a must and you want full attacks (who doesn’t) you could always stich one end of you double sling shut and make a “stiched sling” on one end and would still be able to full attack with the same feats.
In fact you may be able to reload the double sling with the Warslinger trait since this weapon says that it reloads “just like a sling” and “ an ability that allows you to quickly reload a sling”.
Honestly I hope similar language is added to the slingstaff in a future printing.
This should be my last comment on the subject as I no longer have a dog in this fight. I took him out back, spent a move action to load my slingstaff and…. Well you all know the sad conclusion to the story.
As for tone: I am not angry. I am still shocked and disappointed.
I think the fact that halflings can't use the type of sling that the race itself created and is inherently good with kinda silly...they can use a basic one just fine though...
Not true: they can use a halfling sling staff just fine (racial ability to treat it as a martial weapon). They just can't apply an alternate racial trait's benefit for quickly reloading standard slings to anything other than standard slings.
You're presuming that only one result is logical, which isn't fair.
Saying the specific words "a sling" should be restricted to mean literally just that, "a sling", is logical and perfectly acceptable.
Similarly, saying the specific words "a sling" should be interpreted to mean the broader category of "sling-like" weapons is also logical and perfectly acceptable.
There was a reason for both sides to reach the conclusion they did. Only one could be correct. Pathfinder intended for the more restrictive reading to be correct, a perfectly logical choice. Making that choice does not, in any way, imply that the other side was being illogical. You're projecting.
Yes, holding to "a sling" meaning "a sling" rather than "any kind of sling" is "illogical."
Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it's illogical.
I believe you're dead wrong with regards to the "logic" behind your decision.
"A specially designed sling attached to a short club" is quite clearly "a sling," if you want to use logic in making your decision.
The point at which it is attached to the short club is the point at which it ceases to be a sling and becomes a sling staff. Kind of like how you have to take Rapid Reload separately for a Musket and an Axe Musket, even though one is just the other with an axe on it.
He didn't make any implication that the other side was being illogical, though, that's my point. You're projecting that.
He responded to somebody else whom he thought made a sarcastic remark about this conclusion being illogical and simply said, "Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's illogical."
He never said, "Any conclusion other than limiting 'a sling' to 'a sling' is illogical."
And yes, there is logic behind determining that "a sling" should be limited to only slings.
Not true: they can use a halfling sling staff just fine (racial ability to treat it as a martial weapon). They just can't apply an alternate racial trait's benefit for quickly reloading standard slings to anything other than standard slings.
True enough. I guess I forgot that part.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I didn't mean that sarcastically. I really do think the racial trait would have been cool if it worked on all slings. But (1) the wordage doesn't indicate that, and (2) if it allowed such a thing, I'm sure there's some weird combo it would allow where people were dual-wielding some weird power-sling that normally is a full-round action to reload.
I can see the LOGIC behind the decision (and could easily see it going the other way, frankly).
I guess I just don't understand the REASON behind it.
No one needs to do anything special like choose an alternate racial trait to put out ridiculous amounts of damage as, say, the easily-picked-on zen archer. From what I saw Rapid Reload was reworded to allow guns specifically because otherwise the gunslinger class would be "useless." But a halfling sling-staff user has the ability to break the game? Seems like an odd reason to make a stand on something.
C'est la vie, je suppose...