Mounted combat section of the rules, for reference.
In particular, it states:
These rules cover being mounted on a horse in combat but can also be applied to more unusual steeds, such as a griffon or dragon.
Then it states:
Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat.
Well, griffons, dragons, giant spiders mounted by mites, giant geckos mounted by kobolds & goblins -- none of those mounts are ever listed as having combat training. Basically every enemy that is on an unusual mount needs to make DC 20 ride checks in combat, or the mount will gain the frightened condition. Weirdly, a monster which wound normally fight in combat just fine (if unmounted) will suddenly gain the frightened condition IF mounted.
In a home game, the GM can just handwave that issue. However, I didn't post this in the Rules forum on purpose. I posted it here in the PFS forum because we are mandated to follow the rules to the letter, even if it adds a stupid ride check that we don't want. Can anyone give me a way that this does NOT suck? Can anyone give me rules text or FAQs or errata or even a developer post that makes the frightened condition only apply to certain skittish creatures or something? What I really want & need is to have a printout of a rule (not opinions) that essentially says only actual horses are frightened, but a gecko or dire wolf or dragon will be fine. Does that exist? If not, what do?
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Hmm. I was looking at the rules for mounts and found that even for the sections for dinosaurs and other big/mean monsters, it talks about them having combat training, and how that might raise the price for the mount.
That seems to suggest that Paizo, at least, intended for all monstrous mounts to need combat training and thus, the ride check that goes with it. It's not definitive, but it at least shows some assumptions by the publisher & game developers. This seems to indicate to me that I will not find any errata or FAQ that states that a griffon is exempt from being frightened.
I think if they're talking about these creatures needing combat training in the listings for dinosaur mounts and dire mounts and so on, then when I see a monstrous mount in a module that does not have combat training, I ought to treat it as if it does not have combat training, since they otherwise specifically call it out.
I'm prepping a game with goblins on monster mounts. I think I'm going to have to make those ride checks (since the mounts don't have combat training) and watch as the goblins scatter when they fail to control the skittish monsters they are riding. Probably not what the module author intended, but increasingly it seems like what the rules intended.
Edit: could you use this in combat against your enemies? A dinosaur enemy usually has no fear in combat and will attack normally, but if you mount it and fail your ride check, it imposes the frightened condition. Could you run around the battlefield, mounting & swift dismounting all sorts of beasts, in order to have a spell-like fear effect?
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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We're supposed to play by the rules in PFS; as GMs we can't just make up our own version because we think it would be better, more fun, more challenging or more balanced. That's all needed so that we can play at everyone's table and expect our characters to function more or less the same everywhere.
So we can't contradict rules, but there are plenty of places where the rules are fuzzy or vague, and then it's entirely the GM's right, nay, duty even, to make a reasonable decision.
When it comes down to this particular situation, we all know that the mounted combat rules aren't that good. They imply a lot of things that aren't clearly spelled out. And the rules for animals, likewise.
Pathfinder has an idea about normal animal behavior: normal animals shy away from unnatural monsters such as Aberrations and Undead; that's why it takes two Attack tricks to use Handle Animal to direct them to attack such critters.
So what about the issue you bring up? It helps to look at the structure of the text.
These rules cover being mounted on a horse in combat but can also be applied to more unusual steeds, such as a griffon or dragon.
Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don't dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can't do anything else until your next turn.
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat.
The first sentence mentions exotic mounts, but the next paragraph knuckles down and just talks about animals. Animals exhibit some "realistic" behavior that doesn't necessarily carry over to creatures to which Handle Animal style training doesn't apply.
In fact, it talks about the most traditional mounted animals, not velociraptors or giant wasps or anything. And if we look at horses, we see this:
Docile (Ex)[b] Unless specifically trained for combat (see the Handle Animal skill, a horse's hooves are treated as secondary attacks.
Horses stand 5 to 6 feet tall at the shoulder and weigh between 1,000 and 1,500 pounds.
The statistics above are for a typical riding horse, called by some a "light horse." Some horses are larger and heartier, bred for labor such as pulling plows or carriages. These horses are called "heavy horses" and gain the following adjustments to the base statistics detailed above.
[b]Heavy Horse: A heavy horse gains the advanced simple template. In addition, it also gains a bite attack that inflicts 1d4 damage, and its hoof damage increases to 1d6. As with a light horse, a heavy horse can be specifically trained for combat with the Handle Animal skill.
So horses really need combat training to be ready for it, which is about what you'd expect. Let's look at Handle Animal a bit:
Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also "upgrade" an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way.
All of this just applies to animals; not to dragons. Dragons can't be combat trained; dragons don't need to be combat trained, they're intelligent enough that they don't use the "trick" interface.
So what about other special mounts? We can infer something from Handle Animal:
Special: You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do.
Creatures of animal-level instinct have Intelligence scores of 1 or 2.
So special mounts with animal-level intelligence can be subject to Handle Animal and its accompanying rules; everything else isn't.
Well, a griffon has Int 5, but a hippogriff has Int 2. So it could be ruled that a tame hippogriff might be scared in combat unless trained for it, but a griffon is no mere beast to be handled like an animal and isn't scared.
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TL;DR - if it has Int 1-2 you need and can get Combat Training, otherwise you don't (Int 0 implies mindless immunity to fear, Int 3+ means it's not animal-like).
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Edit: could you use this in combat against your enemies? A dinosaur enemy usually has no fear in combat and will attack normally, but if you mount it and fail your ride check, it imposes the frightened condition. Could you run around the battlefield, mounting & swift dismounting all sorts of beasts, in order to have a spell-like fear effect?
That's hilarious, but I would only apply the rules for mounting/fast-mounting to a creature trained enough to be willing to accept a mount. Otherwise you're just trying to grapple a T-Rex.
Also, the rules for Handle Animal appear not to ever consider that you might use them to tell wild or enemy animals to perform tricks just because you have a high skill bonus; but although it doesn't stone-hard say you can't do that, it would be very silly.
I would take a page from the Diplomacy rules an apply the following limits:
Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future.
(...)
If a creature's attitude toward you is at least indifferent, you can make requests of the creature.
If your neighbour's dog hates you, it's not going to give you a paw even if you yell at it really loudly. If it's indifferent and you're good with animals, it might.
This also means that Animal Empathy is actually useful, to calm down wild animals enough to get them to do stuff.
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I posted it here in the PFS forum because we are mandated to follow the rules..
Yes...
to the letter
No.
RAW in pfs is run as written. The scenario. Don't add monsters, don't move the encounter, kinda sorta stay on the tactics if the party hasn't futzed with the evil plans too badly.
Following the rules in PFS means the rules as you understand them, not the unthinking raw. The devs have stated on multiple occasions that the rules are written in natural language and are intended to be understood as such. To that end, the best rules interpretation is not to slavishly follow the raw but to examine the rules for raw, meaning, balance, sanity, playability, and intent and use the rules MEANING. The game simply isn't playable any other way.