If by battlefield control you mean spells that enemies have a chance of saving against, then yeah an 18 is definitely worthwhile. If you are going to focus more on buffs, then an 18 may not be completely necessary though bonus spells are always nice. I'd buy a 15, pick a race that gives +2 Cha and then bump it to 18 at 4th. I wouldn't suggest paying for a 16 base.
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If your making a caster the higher the better. You will not feel the effects until much later. Starting with a 14 is good enough for low level play(Level 5 and below). Starting with a 16 is good enough for mid level play (Level 8 and below). Starting with a 18+ is what you will need when you reach level 9+. As it is hard to increase save DC of your spells. When compared to how easy it is to increase your saves.
20 PFS point Array
Angelkin Oracle (Blood of Angels FTW)
Str 17 (15+2) (7)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 7
Cha 16 (14+2)
with the scion of humanity alternate racial, you can milk the human favored class bonus by means of counting as a human.
and good mysteries include battle, metal, ancestor, wood. life, or the like for pseudocombatants
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Necessary? No, having a 20 is never necessary. However, it is highly preferable for primary casters.
I'd say 17 at least... you could still hit a 20 by level 12. Assuming you already know what to do with the rest of the points.
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Necessary? No, having a 20 is never necessary. However, it is highly preferable for primary casters.
starting with a 20 is only neccessary for a caster who depends entirely upon her save DCs, such as a witch or necromancer focused on Save or Dies.
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
unless your complete role is save or die spammer.
such as a slumber happy witch for example. where you need all the DC bonuses you can get.
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It's not about save or die. It's about save vs. every thing your casting. Where it be crowed control, damage, or enchantments to take over there minds. They all require a save to be failed for them to work. So all primary casters need high DC. If they don't it have it. It won't mater how many spells they can cast as they will never work.
Ya bro she must be at least 18 or you might go to jail
does Rina Shadowsong the 65 year old drow blooded high elf count?
she was over 18 by human standards
an especially pale elf with black hair and red eyes. only 5 feet tall and barely 40 lbs due to her hollow elven skeleton (my excuse for 6 foot tall 80 lbs elven women)
she was a witch who contributed to the shackles pushing back the chelexian navy.
she was a secondary healer, a crow's nest night spotter, and a user of save or be screwed spells.
Does Scion of Humanity really allow you to take the human favored class bonus?No
it is the same as Taking Racial Heritage (Human)
it lets you take options that require you to be human
meaning the favored class bonus is available.
A 17 is great. You can give it the level up boost at level 4 (a level after your first big save or suck spells come into the picture) and not feel a thing. Meanwhile more Strength, Con, or Social skills. Whatever floats your boat!
I love odd numbers when it comes to building characters, I find it frees up a lot of points. My players dont necessarily agree though, and arent too happy with my 15 pt buy. One of mine just rerolled a cleric of desna that I was very excited about for a paladin for full BAB 18 strength power attacks because "clerics are too MAD" and "I need an 18". I'll never understand it, and it's a bit of a letwodwn for me. I'll be laughing when he could be casting 7th level spells at the back end of runelords, though.
Diff'rent strokes, I guess.
I'm currently playing an Eldritch Knight. He's level 7 and has Int 18 (15 + human race bonus + 4th level increase). The future increses will go to Int as well. His feats are entirely combat-oriented, so no spell focus or stuff like that. With a headband of intellect +2 I can still be reasonably good at casting spells, even those with saves. You just need to pick your spells a bit more carefully. Don't use single target save-or-sucks on the BBEG. Use spells that also hit his minions who are more likely to fail the save so your spell will at least do anything.
So yeah, depending on the build's focus and spell selection, a 16 or 17 in the primary casting stat will suffice.
My 14th level Wizard has an awe-inspiring...19 INT (started with 16 INT). There are TONS of spells where the save DC is irrelevant. As other posters have mentioned, how you plan on playing it determines how important the save DCs will be.
I may go with a variant of this thanks. I try to avoid dump stats when possible, a flavor choice. Yah, I know flavor does not always work in Society play... :)20 PFS point Array
Angelkin Oracle (Blood of Angels FTW)
Str 17 (15+2) (7)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 7
Cha 16 (14+2)with the scion of humanity alternate racial, you can milk the human favored class bonus by means of counting as a human.
and good mysteries include battle, metal, ancestor, wood. life, or the like for pseudocombatants
low Wis isn't an issue as an oracle. you can roleplay her as a complete Ditz ala Colette Brunel or Flonne. you could make up plenty of Ditsy things, or you can invest highly in one particular knowledge skill and roleplay her as an airheaded otaku of that subject. knowledge arcana for a wizard or dragon otaku or even knowledge history for a history or warfare otaku as examples.
such a Ditzy Angelkin with maxed out knowledge (Dungeoneering) could be a hentai otaku and identify the various types of tentacle monsters and slimes used in the thousands of doujins she has read.
I came in here expecting a discussion of mature content.
Then I realized we were discussing ability scores.
...thank god i wasn't the only one
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A lot of intense violence happens quite often in Pathfinder. My party claims to be full of "good guys" but we have someone who is literally an axe murderer, a guy who whips people to death, and someone who feeds people to wild animals and watches as they get torn apart. It's pretty gruesome really.
...and I'm the bad guy because I suggest we give the sleeping enemy a quick, clean, painless death.
A lot of intense violence happens quite often in Pathfinder. My party claims to be full of "good guys" but we have someone who is literally an axe murderer, a guy who whips people to death, and someone who feeds people to wild animals and watches as they get torn apart. It's pretty gruesome really.
...and I'm the bad guy because I suggest we give the sleeping enemy a quick, clean, painless death.
so true.
my small framed Angelkin runt of Ulfen, Taldan, Varisian, and Chelexian heritage, born as the daughter of a half nymph human and a half celestial shadow elemental with her fetchling twin sister, were an amazing pair of loli twins.
the fetchling was a highly sickly countess who used, skills, spells, and performance to support, being a puppeteer (fetchling bard with versatile performance, using puppetry in place of sleight of hand and disable device. had a strength and constitution of 7)
and the angelkin sister was a holy knight with ADHD that killed stuff with a hand and a half sabre held in both hands (Battle Oracle with a houseruled sidestep secret taken via extra revelation and the human favored class bonus)
the 2 traveled in a group of 12 other PCs.
both twins were 5 feet tall, the fetchling leader weighed 80 lbs and her angelkin cohort and sister weighed 125 lbs.
The fact that adventurers are glorified murderers always seems to fly over peoples heads.
Think of Marv, from Sin City.
That is an adventurer.
adventurers were always glorified bandits
Well, Countess Umbriere Moonwhisper was a sickly and errant countess in need of protecting, who never lifted a weapon in her life, but she has ordered her entourage of "knights" to kill for her. and while she didn't swing a blade, she did, through buffs and battlefield control, contribute to quite a few deaths.
her twin, Lumiere Dawnbringer, Knight of the Sunrise, would kill anyone her sister told her to, anyone who threatened, bullied, or insulted her sister, or anybody who did the same of herself, their parents, or their uncle, usually in the slowest and most painful possible way.
so yes, the twins contributed to many murders, and Umbri was the little ringleader of the ragtag band of "knights" of which there were 13 plus her sister. the 13th knight was a tagalong NPC whom was fanatically loyal and was afraid of the little rich fetchling girl. mostly because he was recruited after her group easily slaughtered a war band of 60 ogres in a single night at 5th level. the ogres neither had a chance to awaken from their slumber nor scream.
Ogres.
Ogres rape, mutilate, murder, then rape what they mutilate and murder.
For an Ogre, a cat is fine too, but a dead cat is fine as well.
and trolls, 3.5 half-troll template could be applied to just about anything (I think even animals) the fluff describes ALL half-trolls as products of rape.