If you could choose between inflicting the prone and the stunned conditions to a opponent with a monk's stunning fist, which one would you chose?
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Stunned is far better. They drop everything held and can take no actions.
Prone, they just swing at you with -4.
Corner case: a highly armored warrior with weapons in locked gauntlets would be more vulnerable to being dropped prone than stunned (assuming his damage output is manageable).
Corner case: a highly armored warrior with weapons in locked gauntlets would be more vulnerable to being dropped prone than stunned (assuming his damage output is manageable).
If you aren't the only one present, stun is still better.
You drop the warrior prone, he can swing at you with a full attack at -4 on everything, or stand up and take the 1 hit you make, and hit you back.
Stunned, he can't attack anybody, the rogue can do sneak attack, and he can't even move away.
Or are you saying fighters have big fort saves, and are likely to resist the stun? If the trip comes from stunning fist, it would have the same save.
In general I would go with stun as a better effect than tripping. Not that both don't have their uses. Have improved trip and greater trip is nice. As a monk you could trip your enemy and then he provokes an AoO from you and all your friends (within range) with Greater Trip, you then proceed to use Stunning Fist on him while he is prone as your iterative attack (I think that's legal, right?). That enemy is probably out of the fight.
How is this a question? Stun is 5981461986985 times better than prone.
Stunned drops their Dex to AC and prevents actions. It also opens up Sneak Attacks assuming flanking isn't already in effect.
Prone drops their AC and attack rolls by a flat 4 points. It also opens up Attacks of Opportunity if the foe uses his action to stand.
If the -4 to hit makes the creature unable consistently to land blows, and its Dexterity bonus is less than +5, rendering the creature prone is at least as good as stunning it for non-rogue characters, assuming it doesn't resort to non-standard attack forms such as supernatural breath weapons.
In general, stunning is best - but not always.
In general I would go with stun as a better effect than tripping. Not that both don't have their uses. Have improved trip and greater trip is nice. As a monk you could trip your enemy and then he provokes an AoO from you and all your friends (within range) with Greater Trip, you then proceed to use Stunning Fist on him while he is prone as your iterative attack (I think that's legal, right?). That enemy is probably out of the fight.
The AoO from Greater Improve Trip is only for the tripper, but yeah, if you have other attacks after the initial tripping attack, you still have them.
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If the -4 to hit makes the creature unable consistently to land blows, and its Dexterity bonus is less than +5, rendering the creature prone is at least as good as stunning it for non-rogue characters
Absolutely no chance. I don't care how big the penalties are. Your enemy taking 0 actions is always better than your enemy taking any action they like.
There are no circumstances in which prone is better unless you have Greater Trip and you can guarantee that the AoOs provoked would kill the target. There's just no other way.
The AoO from Greater Improve Trip is only for the tripper, but yeah, if you have other attacks after the initial tripping attack, you still have them.
You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to trip a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Trip. Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.
Unless I have misinterpreted this for many a year, this implication is that the person provokes an AoO, which means from everyone. So anyone within range of the person can make an AoO.
Moving out of a threatened square provokes an AoO, if multiple people threaten that square they each get an AoO against the opponent moving out of it. With Greater Trip a tripped opponent provokes an AoO, so same case.
Greater trip makes the tripped character provoke from everyone currently threatening.
Vicious stomp allows an unarmed strike against an opponent who goes prone in a threatened space, and only works for the character with the feat.
The AoO from Greater Improve Trip is only for the tripper, but yeah, if you have other attacks after the initial tripping attack, you still have them.
You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to trip a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Trip. Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.Unless I have misinterpreted this for many a year, this implication is that the person provokes an AoO, which means from everyone. So anyone within range of the person can make an AoO.
Moving out of a threatened square provokes an AoO, if multiple people threaten that square they each get an AoO against the opponent moving out of it. With Greater Trip a tripped opponent provokes an AoO, so same case.
Oh snap, you're right!
Stunned. Duh. Is this not a joke topic?
The only possible way I'd ever choose prone instead is if the enemy is immune to stun, but not prone. Then it becomes a choice of "prone, or nothing."
Stunned is better.
Although, many things are immune to stun, but I can't think of anything that is immune to being prone.
Stunned is better.
Although, many things are immune to stun, but I can't think of anything that is immune to being prone.
"Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped."
"Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped."Stunned is better.
Although, many things are immune to stun, but I can't think of anything that is immune to being prone.
Which is TECHNICALLY not the same thing as saying they can't be prone. They just can't be rendered prone by the trip maneuver ... any other way of rendering them prone would theoretically work.
(I'm not sure if there are any, but ...)
"Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped."Stunned is better.
Although, many things are immune to stun, but I can't think of anything that is immune to being prone.
Which is TECHNICALLY not the same thing as saying they can't be prone. They just can't be rendered prone by the trip maneuver ... any other way of rendering them prone would theoretically work.
(I'm not sure if there are any, but ...)
I can think of a couple.... Bull-rush into solid object. Expeditious excavation. Geyser (though, its from a fall, so logically flying creatures wouldn't fall). Hideous laughter...
In fact, pretty much all of them are spells except the bull-rush thing.
"Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped."Stunned is better.
Although, many things are immune to stun, but I can't think of anything that is immune to being prone.
Which is TECHNICALLY not the same thing as saying they can't be prone. They just can't be rendered prone by the trip maneuver ... any other way of rendering them prone would theoretically work.
(I'm not sure if there are any, but ...)
Punishing Kick knocks a target prone without tripping them. Some Monk archetypes swap it out for Stunning Fist, so that may be what the OP is referring to.
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Hmm, you're right. By the wording on punishing kick it does not use a trip attack, so you could punishing kick that naga right into the floor.
I really think the use of tripped is an error and they intended it to be prone in general. But yeah, I guess by RAW nothing is immune to "prone."
How is this a question? Stun is 5981461986985 times better than prone.
Approximately. I read that it's 5981461986997 times better! Oh noes!
What do you mean or?
Flurry, first trip. Vicious stomp triggers. Then stun. Either off of free aoo or from your next punch. Dont forget ki throw to trip that sucker into flanking.
#edit:
Depending on how nasty you want to be. Stun him first. Then ki throw him away from his items :P
