Questions about buying / upgrading things in pfs (not in faq)

[cruise]

I'm still pretty new to pfs in general and a lot of these threads talking about gear and scenarios being deadly have me worried (for myself and my newbie friends). Luckily there have been a lot of helpful threads (thanks guys) to aid, but here are some lingering questions still.

1. How much is it to masterwork a shield spike? and are there any more special considerations to take note of?
2. does adding a special material to a weapon fall under the fame point restrictions?
3. are special materials necessary or just aim for the +1 (etc) magic enhancements?
4. and if possible, is there a general guideline for when (what level etc) a player should get a masterwork weapon/armor, special enhancements and other equipment to help?

[Lab_Rat]

1. 300 gp. All weapons cost 300gp more for the masterwork version. Also, you can not "masterwork" a weapon/armor. You must sell the normal version for 50% of list price and repurchase a masterwork version. The exception to this is utilizing the masterwork transformation spell.

2. No. Special materials are covered in the always available category of items. Except for dragonhide.

3. Useful but not necessary. You can always have a secondary weapon that is cold iron or silver. Also, an weapon with a +3 enhancement bonus will act as both cold iron and silver.

4. Not really. I usually shoot for purchasing masterwork versions of my Armor/weapon by the time I reach lvl 2 and I shoot for a +3 enchantment weapon by about the lvl 10-12 range. As far as special enchantments go, people have different preferences. I am fond of merciful, vicious, ferocious (Barbarian), courageous, holy, and bane.

[Natertot]

cruise wrote:

I'm still pretty new to pfs in general and a lot of these threads talking about gear and scenarios being deadly have me worried (for myself and my newbie friends). Luckily there have been a lot of helpful threads (thanks guys) to aid, but here are some lingering questions still.

1. How much is it to masterwork a shield spike? and are there any more special considerations to take note of?
2. does adding a special material to a weapon fall under the fame point restrictions?
3. are special materials necessary or just aim for the +1 (etc) magic enhancements?
4. and if possible, is there a general guideline for when (what level etc) a player should get a masterwork weapon/armor, special enhancements and other equipment to help?

Hello Cruise,

Welcome to PFS!

1) 300 gp like any masterwork weapon

2) you can't add a special material to a masterwork weapon, some special materials are already considered masterwork when you purchase them, see lab_rat above he answers your question bettter I think

3) it is always good to cover your bases one way or another with special materials, especially if you are the one hitting the enimies a lot.

4) on general guidelines, try looking under Painlord for good information on your searches.

Hope that helps.

Nathan Meyers
PFS NYC GM/Player

[cruise]

Thank you guys so much, and thank you for recommending painlord's articles! they help a lot

[SCPRedMage]

Also important to note, the "shield spike" is not a separate item; it's modification to the shield, and thus cannot be added later, and cannot be made of a different material than the shield itself.

You're not attacking with a "shield spike", you're shield-bashing with a spiked shield.

[cruise]

so would i have to get a masterwork shield and a masterwork spike? so 150+shield cost+300+spike cost...for a mwk spiked light wooden shield would cost 153+380=533?

[Howie23]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Also important to note, the "shield spike" is not a separate item; it's modification to the shield, and thus cannot be added later, and cannot be made of a different material than the shield itself.

Can you provide a citation that it cannot be added later nor made of a different material than the shield?

[Robert A Matthews]

A spiked shield is a weapon, therefore costs +300GP to make a masterwork version, you don't have to pay both the weapon and armor cost as it is one item. As SCPRedmage said, you aren't using a shield spike attached to a shield, you are using a spiked shield. The shield's enhancement bonus will not apply on attacks made with the shield though, unless you enchant it with the bashing magic item quality.

[SCPRedMage]

Howie23 wrote:

Can you provide a citation that it cannot be added later nor made of a different material than the shield?

How about this?

You'll note that the price and weight for armor and shield spikes are listed as increases, not as a separate price or weight. They are NOT separate items, but are modifications and they can NOT be purchased separately from the base item being modified. The same is true for the "throwing shields" and "holy symbol compartments" from Ultimate Equipment.

Since the shield spikes aren't a separate item, and the rules do not support having one item made from multiple special materials, the shield spikes CANNOT be made from a separate special material, as far as RAW is concerned. Since this is PFS we're talking about here, that's all that matters.

And since there aren't any rules covering the modification of existing items (heck, not even the Craft skill covers that), allowing them to be added later is well into house-rule territory. If you still don't see why you couldn't do it from an in-character perspective, ask yourself how, considering the relatively primitive manufacturing methods, one could attach spikes to a shield after the fact, in such a manner that the spikes don't break off as soon as you use them as intended.

Robert A Matthews wrote:

A spiked shield is a weapon, therefore costs +300GP to make a masterwork version, you don't have to pay both the weapon and armor cost as it is one item. As SCPRedmage said, you aren't using a shield spike attached to a shield, you are using a spiked shield. The shield's enhancement bonus will not apply on attacks made with the shield though, unless you enchant it with the bashing magic item quality.

300gp will make it a masterwork weapon, but it's arguable if it'll actually count as masterwork armor, as well. You're better off playing it safe by spending 450gp to GUARANTEE it counts as both.

Either that, or pay 1,000gp to make it mithral; mithral items are ALWAYS masterwork, so you don't have to worry about paying separately, it'll count as silver for DR (without the damage penalty an alchemical silver spiked shield would have), and completely eliminates the armor check penalty on a heavy spiked shield. It's what I did for my dual-shield-wielding fighter's primary weapon.

[Robert A Matthews]

Something is just hilarious about a guy running around with 2 shields. Hmmmm, does the bashing enchant actually make a heavy spiked shield do 2d6 damage?

[Howie23]

Ok, thanks.

[SCPRedMage]

Robert A Matthews wrote:

Something is just hilarious about a guy running around with 2 shields. Hmmmm, does the bashing enchant actually make a heavy spiked shield do 2d6 damage?

Yes. For evidence, look at the damage this barbarian from the NPC Codex does with his +5 bashing spiked heavy shield.

Also, the inherent humor is why I decided to play the character in the first place. :P