So I'm faced with kind of an interesting role-playing challenge for my group that I'm running in Carrion Crown. The PCs consist of the following currently:
Male Dhampir Magus 7 (Infected)
Male Human Fighter 7 (Infected)
Male Human Oracle(Life) 7 (Infected)
Female Human Barbarian 7 (Infected)
Female Bard (Diresinger) 7
Between four seperate werewolf encounters and the Vilkicis, almost every PC is infected. I had a lot of the wandering encounters in the Shudderwood consist of werewolves, with a couple of major exceptions. It should be noted that I roll all of my Lycanthropy checks in secret, so none of the players know whether or not they are infected. My timeline is this:
-Estovian and Belik (who in my gave is a 7th level rogue) have already done their deeds and fled to the Stairs of the Moon.
-Minor details not pertinent to situation at hand but give background:
The PCs have finished their investigations at the lodge, but in my game, I had the Princes Wolves being besieged by a CR 10 Charnel Colossus (Inner Sea Bestiary, re-statted) in an effort by the WW to wipe out their old enemies. The PCs dealt with this, and have just met up with the Princes Wolves campsite. In my game, this is a hilltop covered in a ring of whee-less carriages about a day's journey from the Stairs of the Moon.
-The Moon cycle is currently 1 day away from the 3 day Full Moon period.
-The journey to Highthrone will take the group enoughh time that they should arrive a little after the full moon rises.
With all that in mind, I foresee that everyone is going to transform as soon as combat breaks out at the Stairs. The massive clearing between the treeline and the Stairs themselves is definitely big enough to allow even a low moon to shine its light in. Tentatively, I think I will allow those overtaken by the beast to make whatever rolls are necessary for the actions they take, but having me control their characters movements and actual actions instead of them. Questions for anyone:
1)Does having me control their character's actions seem fair or unfair? I am not going to have them turn on each other but instead almost be directed toward Highthrone and Mathus, carving a bloody swath as they do.
2) Should I allow any mechanic for the PCs to maybe gain coherence (control of their character) for a turn? Say, maybe a DC 15 or 17 Will save to control the character normally?
3)Will the Vilkicis treat infected PCs as 'allies' since it would see them as Werewolves?
4) How easy is Wolfsbane to find? Has anyone come up with quests or anything related for their PCs when searching for this stuff? The PCs are all out, though there is some 'Wolfsbane potion' in the lower part of the Stairs, IIRC.
5) Has anyone else had an entire group or a majority or a group transform, and if so, how did you handle it?
I should note that I gave the Packlord's Heart mystical powers, and while Mathus doesn't have all of it, I think I'm going to give him a power akin to forcing a Lycanthrope into their human form, as well as a couple others. From the reports of how he has fared against other groups, it looks like he needs the help. Besides this, I'm on the fence on whether I want my characters in control of their PCs for this fight or not, since defeating him heralds the turning point of the module.
Thanks for any help!
It seems that you have 3 main questions to ponder:
1. How will the Werewolves (and the vilkacys)react to infected (transformed) PCs ?
Ever noticed that (almost) every single Werewolf in the volume ist a natural lycantrophe?
one might argue thats just for design reasons and to ramp up the CRs with their DR, but its also stated in the entry of the Demon Wolves (Jezeldans) that they are the only pack that accepts afflicted lycantrophes as members.
And that`s not just because affliced lycantrophes are "weak" or "pityful", they are a liability and possibly a real thread to a pack or even all the wolves of the shudderwood.
An afflicetd werewolf inside a pack would bare be able to pull his own weight, unable to hunt with the pack when doesn´t manage to change shape and subject to dangerous "mood swings" if he manages to or even changes involuntarily.
But a affliced werewolf (let alone even a whole group) is even worse.
Imagine your group was at a tavern near the fringes of the Shudderwood when they first mass-changed and not at the stairs of the moon. Would the resulting massacre be enough to rile the remaining people of Lozeri into whipping up an inquizition and trying to cleanse the Shudderwood of its curse?
The Werewolves like their relatively peaceful existence. Most of them even try to integrate into the fringes of human sciety. Both of these things are endangered when affliced wolves are around.
IMC the werewolves (with the notable exception of the demonwolves) arte very cautious about "spreafding the curse", only using their bites if they fully intend to kill the target.
I also would them have react with extreme prejudice to a group of 4 newly afflicted and uncontrolled werewolves. Maybe even setting aside inter-pack hostilities to deal with them.
As for the vilkacys, I envision the monster as a kind of "spirit of the beast", the thing thats in control when an afflicted lycantrophe changes, now stripped of the human part of the equation. For such a creature only 2 types of beings exist: wolves and prey. this makes for an interesting roleplaying opportunity with a creature that normally is just an unusual combat critter. it might actually aproach the "newborn" Pcs, trying to tempt them to embrace their new self, becoming beasts in its own image. But alliance with a person thats not afflicted is not possible ( esp. seeing how its relations with such creatures are bound to end, given its canopic stone). for the vilkacys there are 2 possible solutions:
1. Assimilation: coerce the Pcs (afflicted and not) into willfully afflicting the last PC to have him join their pack.
2. Bloodlust: the Pc who is prey, must be treated as such, it will try to whip the oter pcs into a frenzy to make them kill their former ally. You could even give it an ability (ceg. call of the Beast) that can force afflicted lycantrophes into their hybrid forms (Will negates) to accomplish that.
if both approaches fail it might deem the PCs "unfit for the gift" and try to destroy them for not embracing their "true" selves.
2. How to handle control of Characters in the situation ?
i think this is a great roleplaying opportunity. I would let my players remain in control of their changed characters, but have them roleplay their bloodrage. In the situation you described there are plenty of enemies they can focus that rage on( and that will attack them in kind, see 1.) So it is a bit like suddenly 4 characters are good ol frenzied berserkers.
Take care to describe the scene differently for the afflicted characters. Make the players enjoy their "powerup" , Try to make them revel in ripping their enemies to shreds, play up the empowerment side of the situation and encourage them to play the reckless monsters they have just become. (this requires quite a bit of trust in your players abilities and willingness on their part to embrace the situation. If that doesn`t work out to well for you, you could always take direct control of the characters in key-moments)
and leave the dreadful, gruesome side for the normal character, who sees their friends turn into savage beasts and make him fear for what might happen if they run out of enemies to kill.
You could also give your Pcs a bit of a warning about what is going to happen. Maybe they feel when the moon rises above the horizion, even if it cant be seen in the deeps of the woods, maybe they smell the vollensang (event 7) before they see them, maybe the vollensang outright tell them, because they can smell the curse, or instead of trying to drive the PCs away like they have before (at least IMC)they fully assault them, ignoring the PC whos not afflicted. ... That way they can prepare themselves mentally for the challenge.
3. How to cure the Pcs?
The shrine where Estovion will be hiding has some options for you, but you might want to adjust them a bit.
1. there is a scroll of cure disease (Cl12). while normally this would auto-heal one PC, it only works within 2 days of contracting the curse, or until the first transformation. so it is too late for your Pcs. i would swap it with a scroll of break curse, which would maybe be the more sensible choice anyways, because the scroll was left there by a priest who wanted to heal his son, who was way beyond the threshold where cure disease would have helped.
2. Beladonna ( Wolfsbane) seems to have 2 writeups, once as belladonna in the CRB, which allwos you to reroll one save against lycantrophy contracted in the last hour and once as Wolfsbane in UE which doesnt seem to say anything about lycantrophy. [ I can´t find it in my copy of UE, but its in the SRD].
3.In the shrine are up to three bottle of a "magical wolfsbane-based tonic". As written they work as normal wolfsbane, but it wouldn`t be unreasonable to say that during his experimentations the priest created a form of concentrated wolfbane that is powerful enough to cure normal lycantrophy or allow a new save after any amount of time. it wasnt enough to help his son, but it will help the PCs.
I would connect such a wondrous cure with some hefty downsides though (like having the tonic count as 5 doses of belladonna, or a longer lasting highly allergic reaction to silver or ...) because lycantrophy is notoriously hard to cure and should still be portraied as such, so that the danger of werewolves, the main antagonist in the volume doesn`t loose its punch.
So in that particulart location are the means to heal 1 pc and give the remaining 3 another save, which might very easily be enought to cure all of them. Esp if they have hero points.
4. IMC there will also be a scroll of raise dead in there, because wih a 5 person party I ramp up the encounters and treasure a bit to keep them "on track" with their levels and WBL. the scroll will be there because the priest used so much wolfsbane and other remdeys on his son, he killed him and brought him back from the dead. Repeatedly. Until all remains of his sons soul and humanity where stripped away, creating the vilkacys. Maybe this can be used to cure one of the pc by cleansing throught death if they are really desperate (or one of the pcs dies during his first frenzy, a not too unlikely outcome).
Interesting in fact, i would really like to see how this pans out for your group and whether they are up to the (roleplaying)-challenge.
My Pcs too will likely reach the stairs n the first night of the full moon (maybe late evening), so far I have 1 infected PC, an antother who was bitten by the vilkacys but made her save.
Belladonna and Wolfsbane are two different plants.
ah, ok, don`t know where that came from, but good to know.
Weird thing is, all places I found talking about curing lycantrophy only mention wolfsbane as giving another save. yet in the poison descriptions belladonna has extra rules regarding lycantrophy, wolfsbane hasn`t.
So...
-Belladonna allows a new save if ingested within 1 hour of being bitten.
-Wolfsbane allows a new save no matter how much time has passed an whether the creature ever transformed.
?
Belladonna and Wolfsbane are two different plants.ah, ok, don`t know where that came from, but good to know.
Weird thing is, all places I found talking about curing lycantrophy only mention wolfsbane as giving another save. yet in the poison descriptions belladonna has extra rules regarding lycantrophy, wolfsbane hasn`t.
So...
-Belladonna allows a new save if ingested within 1 hour of being bitten.-Wolfsbane allows a new save no matter how much time has passed an whether the creature ever transformed.
?
I use the information out of the bestiary and consider the info out of the CRB to be a misprint. Because one of the two of them needs, ah, revision.
Alternatively, consuming a dose of wolfsbane (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 560) gives an afflicted lycanthrope a new Fortitude save to recover from lycanthropy.
In my games I rule that it works within the same three day window as remove disease.
I do use the 'effects of' description from belladonna though. Because sometimes a PC just fails that 'not get stoned' save and wants me to describe the effects. Wolfsbane has some table-unfriendly effects.
Azmahel: These are all good suggestions, and I will probably incorporate some of them tonight. My party uses Harrow Points instead if Hero points, and will most likely acquire the 'Eclipse' Harrow card, which I believe also cures a PC of Lycanthropy permanently. The combination of all of those things should be enough to restore the PCs before their tip to Feldgrau, though I can see them becoming infected again with the Demon Wolf encounters there. At that point, it won't be as big of a deal since it will be a while before the next full moon.
Pan My players all know that I have been rolling in secret and are good with it. They're of the same opinion as me in that a loss of personal control is a great central theme in horror, most of all in monstrous transformation stories such as Jekyl and Hyde, or in this case, Werewolves. I probabaly will probably allow them to role-play their actions for the most part unless in contradicts what a bestial version of them would do. Should be interesting, I'll let everyone know the results.
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If it is on the level then that's cool. I was not sure from your initial post if that was the case.
Its not RAW but I got a suggestion. Think up some type of mechanic like confusion. Once the PCs turn, have them roll percentile dice at the start of their turn. On a certain percent they get to act normally. On the other hand, if they roll a different percent they attack the nearest thing. Sounds like fun to me!
I ended up infecting my entire party with lycanthropy at various stages at the Stairs of the Moon. We had some wolfsbane on hand that was used to cure two of the three party members. I then used the Harrow Card - Eclipse to make one character permanently cured (in that they couldn't be affected again). Funny thing is that character didn't get bit at Feldgrau anyway. The only one that did get bit again ended up dying in the fight with Auren Vrood and they took care of the lycanthropy when they raised her later on.
So this is how last night went for me:
The PCs arrived at the Stairs just after sunset, accompanied by Rhakis and a group of Princes Wolves. I used them mainly to scout ahead during the journey there and they dealt either socially or harshly with the numerous werewolf packs that appeared with increasing frequency toward the stairs. Rhakis attempted to broker peace from the clearing's edge, speaking of unity against a common foe, but Mathus would only accept submittance and yelled down his ultimatum. As a couple of arrows struck Rhakis, the PCs quickly moved to support him and then moved beyond the edge of the clearing and into the full moon's light towards the Stairs.
Before this encounter began, I knew I was going to need some sort of way for the PCs to still control their actions periodically and even to get the occasional word in to their foes. Otherwise, I felt that a lot of the coming encounters would lose their background and some of their impact. Not only that, but 4/5 of my players might as well go watch a movie or something since the presence of the fifth dictate that I run the combat in its fullness.
I'm a big fan of the Bardic Masterpieces from Ultimate Magic, and so decided that Prince Rhakis knew one of his own. It worked like this-
Prerequisite: Perform (Sing) 5 ranks or Perform (String) 5 Ranks
Cost: Feat or 2nd Level Bard Spell Known
Effect: Upon beginning this Performance, all afflicted Lycanthropes that can hear this song may attempt to gain control of their mental facilities. A character who has lost control of their character to Lycnathropy may attempt a Will saving Throw (DC 15)at the beginning of their turn to act normally. They may take any actions that their current form allows, including changing forms, casting spells, and using magic items. Using this Masterpiece replaces any current Bardic performance the bard may have active and requires the normal action to maintain every round as a standard bardic performance. As long as this performance is maintained, afflicted Lycantrhopes may continue to gain control of their actions every round with successful saving throws. Additional performers of this Masterpiece do not grant multiple saving throws, but they do lower the DC required to gain control by 2 for each accompanying bard.
Use: 1 baric performance per minute
Action: Standard to begin, then as Bardic Performace to maintain.
This made it so the players could periodically influence their words and actions, yet it made it so sometimes they would just lose control and fly at the closest enemy. They basically charged straight at the Stairs and all immediately transformed and suffered a round of being peppered with arrows as they spent full-rounds changing into Wolf-form. This gave them a moment of horrible vulnerability, as without any cover, the Silverhide Rangers easily bloodied a couple of them before they even closed. Once control was established, almost everyone spent their actions shifting into the more advantageous Half-Man (Crinos for any Werewold players??) and the Oracle was able to heal most of their wounds. From there, it was on.
I won't give a round by round, but for the most part, the players had control of their PCs about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time, offsetting the advantages of their new forms by the occasional tactically horrible move. The worst situation was the Oracle falling to the Beast and rushing forward at a crucial moment when the Fighter was getting ready to drop from hp loss, putting both of them in peril (Oracle has lowest HP and AC of the group). Still the players LOVED being werewolves for the session and carving a bloody path to the top of the stairs. I also bent the rules a little and allowed the Bard to emulate the song the Prince was singing at any point to lower the DC for the will saves.
The session ended with the were-PCs at the top of the stairs, with the PC Barbarian having challenged Mathus to single combat... More to come.
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Another idea, if you like the concept of them losing control of their characters during this time why not run the whole encounter yourself sometime before your game day? Then when you get to the titular stairs you tell them they black out and wake up where you left off having to figure out what the hell just happened with you slowly dribbling information to them as they figure it all out. This can really play up that terror of waking up and not knowing what just happens and gives you the opportunity to really get some milage out of the Will save rolls they get to make to figure out remember what happened during the night maybe even giving them multiple rolls as they stumble onto the various after effects of the night before.
Now since you have one guy who is not infected you could pull have some really interesting things go on. You could see if you can meet up with him before all of this happens and get him involved in the encounter at the stairs or talk to him about sitting sideline with you while the PC's have to figure out what happens. I mean could you imagine the look on their faces as they all wake up in a pool of blood, strangers dead all around them, and after a head count all they can find of said companion is some torn cloth and a broken weapon? Imagine the look on their face as all of them have to try and figure out what happened to him and if they actually killed their friend.
Some stuff that happened last night that might be interesting to others:
Usually, a one on one fight between a single PC and an equal CR monster is dicey at best, if not suicidal for the PC. Depending on the creature's build and abilities, its possible for said beasty to one-off the character, which sucks since one-on-one duels are at the core of countless fantasy genres. I knew the barbarian was going to need help, yet if the other PCs jumped in, it would suddenly be a free-for all with Mathus, his remaining tribe (about 15 strong), and the Dorzenhacs all throwing in. I struck upon an idea as I thought about the character's new were-forms and how that might affect an encounter with the Vilkicis. I decided the following:
A Sympathetic Spirit-
-While evil, the Vilkicis wants nothing more than to be free from its centuries of imprisonment within the stone. While it is occasionally free to exert its own power over its wanderings, it is always under the control of the stone's owner. It utterly resents Estovian and rankles at the control that a non-Lycanthrope is exerting over it.
-Since the majority of the PCs are werewolves, the Vilkicis sees in them possible allies, and even with its lower intelligence, it understands that if Mathus is packlord, the Vilkicis will continue to be the slave his ally Estovian.
-During the fight with Mathus, the barbarian heard whispering pleas in her head, whispers of the Vilkicis telling her that it was a prisoner. It told her that it could never be free if Mathus was packlord and it would help her.
-Even with the party buffing her, the barbarian had a hard time fighting Mathus, especially with the 'Human Hate' conferred by his Ranger levels. Within about three rounds, it was obvious that without some intervention, Mathus would prevail, and within a round or two.
That's when she reached out to the "whispers" and allowed the Vilkicis to take control.
-The Vilkicis "partially" possessed her and gave her all of its gifts, such as Greater Rage and the extra natural weapons that come with that. Since only getting an additonal +2 str and con wasn't really enough, I upped it to +4/+4 (she's already a barbarian and rage doesn't stack) When this happened, not only did it allow the barbarian to defeat Mathus (barely), but also provided some emotional resonance with the werewolves; seeing their ancestor spirit channeled into the barbarian made making peace after the duel much easier.
-They took Estovian alive. Despite putting up a hell of a fight, they cornered and knocked him out. The Oracle accomplished this by spamming Sound Bursts, making it so he couldn't use his Dimensional Steps to flee. They are giving him over to the Werewolves for judgement. They set the Vilkicis free as part of the mental bargain made with it, destroying its stone over the remains.
I found it really fun to get to role-play the Vilkcis instead of having it just be another "wants-to-rip-your-face off monster". I also liked the moral dilemma that the barbarian's player faced, of whether or not to allow this violent outside influence to take control of her (beyond what the lycanthropy was already doing).