Superstition, Witch Hunter, and Ghost Rager. Congrats! Now you have DR for melee and you can say can't touch this to casters. Also gives spell sunder, which is beautiful. "I smash your magic!' is just fun to say. I know you hate this line, but i had to mention it at least.
Raging Vitality is big becuase later on you can easily die instantly upon hitting -1 hp without it..
There are several totems, but beast is the big one people look at. I know the first totem gives natural weapons(which you never need to use) but the free natural armor and the pounce are actually really good. When you get 3 attacks with a greatsword(4 with haste) instead of 1, you really really think its good.
Knockdown looks nice, just a free trip attempt in place of a melee if your in a situation with 4 melee surrounding someone. I've had no problem with tripping in society.
Reckless Abandon lets you throw away AC for more attack at the same rate as you gain it from power attack(you plan to get that right?)
If you happen to get a mount the mounted fury line turns your mount into a real monster.
The once per rage things are the ones you usually avoid. Or ones that eat up actions and don't give much in return. I think I got most of them.
You're not really saying what you want here. If you want more damage, there's elemental rage I guess.
Even once per rage powers are good at 17th then you just rage cycle all day to refresh them over and over.
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You need will. The only thing that sucks about having an Invunerable rager with a big honkin weapon in your party is having a dominated Invunerable rager who used to be in your party smacking the bejeezus out of you with a big honking weapon...
Even once per rage powers are good at 17th then you just rage cycle all day to refresh them over and over.
PFS doesn't go to 17th. It starts at 1 and goes to 12. It would be very hard to reach tireless rage becuase of this.
Before lvl 17 many of them tend to be almost a waste or lackluster. In PFS there is a good chance a fight will go longer than 3 rounds depending on the group(you could have 5 bards and be playing up for instance.)
Flesh Wound is great, the Guarded Life powers are okay, there's the beast totem line for pouncing, or the... chaos or spirit lines (i cant remember which) that has an autoshaken for adjacent enemies that pairs AMAZINGLY with shatter defenses. Come and Get Me works well if you like being mobile (especially with the beast totem line), strength surge is amazing with spell sunder
for feats, if youre a dwarf then steel soul is helpful, if human then the FCB is awesome. consider a 1-3 level dip in two-handed fighter (if you really wanna pile on the damage when you cant full attack, also works well with gloves of dueling iirc) or a one-level dip in unbreakable fighter (if you never, ever want to die, along with the various stalwart feats)
Fiendish causes autoshaken, but its the last power in its chain, locks you into fiend totem, and it doesn't work on evil. In PFS you almost exclusively fight evil foes. Come and Get Me, Great Beast Totem, and Flesh wounds are at the last level of PFS.
Pounce is the best power you get and it is from beast totem you get ac from it too wich is nice and if you hapend to get disarmed no worries 2d8 claws!!!!
Heh, somehow I read this as "Nerd rage powers" and thought "OMG! That's awesome! Hail the nerdbarian!"
Then I read it again. Sigh...
Annoying when people ignore the specifics of the post and respond just to the title, isn't it?
No superstition, no natural attacks... My third favorite would be the intimidate powers. If you change int and cha around and get the feat Initmidating Prowess, you can make a mean Intimidation build with Intimidating Glare, and Boasting Taunt. Demoralize with a move action action and keep them shaken till they attack you in melee, That is just mean.
Increase DR is nice for 8th level. There is nosuch thing as too much DR.
Ground Breaker is awesome and very flavorful for a barbarian with a big honking sword. Make the enemy prone and turn the area around you into difficult terrain so they can't get away.
Strenght Surge is awesome. Can be used on any maneuver and also on strenght checks. Spend a couple rounds of rage to lift things and break all records for weight lift. Remind people to call you Hulk cause you're the strongest there is.
Knockback gives you a bullrush as a melee attack instead of a standard action, without AoO, that deals damage and you don't have to moe so really you're throwing people around like ragdolls. Better than Improved Bullrush and Quick Bullrush together. Combine with Strenght Surge. Make fighters weep.
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I do NOT want the Superstitious line of Rage Powers or the Natural Attacks line of Rage Powers. What I want is a Barabain with a big, hunking, Great Sword (or any other big hunking weapon) smashing his foes in front of him.
What I need is suggestions on what type of Rage Powers go with the Big Weapon, smashing foes.
The Superstitious line of Rage Powers and the Beast Totem rage powers are the best powers for every Barbarian.
Nobody uses the claws--they're stupid and pretty much just a tax to get Pounce. The natural armor is basically a tax, too, but hey, who could complain about Natural Armor?
The Superstitious line, on the other hand, keeps the Barbarian relevant by shoring up their saves (you can rival Paladins!), giving some bonus damage (eventually every enemy has spells or SLAs), and letting you dispel with your (presumably crazy high) CMB.
Seriously, for a big smashy Barbarian (which is basically all of them anyway), you want those powers.
What you absolutely should not do is take Titan Mauler, the Vital Strike line, and Furious Finish. It's a trap! Don't do it!
Just Pounce and Spell Sunder--trust me. There's a reason it seems like every barbarian does it: it's the most optimal path.
Jeez, next you're going to tell me that your 9th level isn't going to be an Oracle with the Lame Curse...
The pounce ability from th beast totem line is more than worth it of your big sword wielding barbarian for damage. Now your charge will give more than just one attack now, and let's you setup for the next go around. Spell sunder is just too amazing to pass up.
Go dragon totem. You have to take the Bite attack Rage Power, but bear with me. Once you get Dragon Resilience, you get a spike of +4 DR/- when raging. Dragon Wings gives you a further +2 DR/-, and you can fly.
Well... People like to focus on them because they are what is mostly worth while. Spirit totem doesn't give enough damage to be worthwhile, world serpent is focused on one type of creature(for almost no reason as far as I can tell), fiend totem doesn't pick between friend and foe, 1/rage powers are usually lackluster and aren't worth it becuase they're once per rage, the heal doesn't scale well, and you'll always do more damage by not wasting your move action.
I should note I've never seen a superstitious barbarian at one of my tables. Many people think its not worth it becuase of the whole not letting yourself be buffed/healed bit. I'd say its more than worth it to get access to the rest of its chain. I know I've never seen a pouncing barbarian becuase that doesn't actually come into play until later levels. My last barbarian took a dip into unarmed fighter and was an urban barbarian, to get style feats and have a different flavor.
The reason I dont want Superstitous or Pounce was becouse I wanted something a bit different then all the Barbarians you see in PFS.
I just want to play something different that's still worthwhile.
This is just my opinion, but I honestly don't think there's a worthwhile Barbarian that doesn't Pounce and Spell Sunder.
lolz my thoughts exactly :-)
you could go for an intimidate build with a half orc
there is quite a few rage powers who support that and to intimidate in combat isnt a bad idea!
if you want a bigg honking weapon go large bastard by picking up exotic weapon proficienty bastard sword and weapon focus bastard sword.
this way you can do what you want to do but your rage powers could stil include beast totem just to get to pounce!
reckless abandon is a must have by the way! and so is come and get me
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You guys are not really helping. If someone posts asking for advice and then SPECIFICALLY SAYS that he doesn't want to choose option A, try not to force it down his throat.
Here's my attempt:
Reckless Abandon: This makes up for the penalty from Power Attack, and if you're going to be swinging one big weapon, you don't want to miss.
Raging Leaper: This is a ho-hum choice on its own, although by mid-levels expect to be able to jump as far as you can run. What it's mainly for is as a prerequisite for—
Bestial Leaper: This is Spring Attack for barbarians, except you're allowed to Vital Strike with it. For the big honkin' hit build, it's what you want. The downside is you still take the attack of opportunity, but that's what your DR is for!
Another way you could go is the Overrun build. It's actually quite effective in PFS, where a large number of fights involve multiple humanoids:
Overbearing Advance: You now do damage whenever you overrun someone. You are a mini-trample monster as you move up to your enemy, and hopefully they're prone by the time you get there.
Overbearing Onslaught: You may now overrun multiple targets. Knock down all the mooks for your party members, and then finish close enough to full attack the boss next round! Combine with Greater Overrun and Combat Reflexes to take an attack of opportunity against every foe you knock down!
You guys are not really helping. If someone posts asking for advice and then SPECIFICALLY SAYS that he doesn't want to choose option A, try not to force it down his throat.
I'm sorry I don't respond positively to:
"Help me optimize by Barbarian except without making any optimal choices--go!"Bestial Leaper: This is Spring Attack for barbarians, except you're allowed to Vital Strike with it. For the big honkin' hit build, it's what you want. The downside is you still take the attack of opportunity, but that's what your DR is for!
This just perpetuates the false idea that Vital Strike is ever worth using.
"I don't want to do the optimal thing."
"Oh, ok, fall into this terrible trap instead."
Without Pounce and Spell Sunder, the next most optimal thing you can do is probably an urban Barbarian archer who mostly ignores their rage powers. And while it would be better than most barbarians without those powers, it'd still be worse than most archers.
Not getting Pounce on a Barbarian, to me, is like saying that you want to be a Summoner without an Eidolon or a Paladin that never smites.
I should note that I've never seen overrun useful. Ever. Too much needs to be just right and it turns into a situational ability. Does your GM set them up like bowling pins for you? Mine doesn't. The damage is also pretty pitiful, especially compared to the pounce that will tear them to shreds.
Vital strike is also feat heavy and for 2 rage power/1(eventually 2) feat investment, at level 6, I can move, still provoke, and then use vital strike anywhere along the way? I see alot of 2 square hallways in pfs, and running down them is not always smart. Vital strike will never be as good as full attacking.
Oddly enough there aren't many rage powers that make you hit harder. The suprise accuracy/powerful blow stuff would be nice, but once per rage makes them an iffy investment. Witch Hunter is the only bonus thats pretty much always on.
Some might argue that anything but human or half orc is not optimal. Well my Dwarf invulnerable 8 with reckless abandon, superstition,strength surge,lesser beast totem, power attacking with lunge is super fun and slaughters stuff quickly in RotRL.
If you've never played a barbarian with the Beast Totem and Superstition line of rage powers, then what does it matter what other people are playing? It will be the first time for you, won't it?
If you insist on making an invulnerable rager without these rage powers, consider a very hard to kill half orc with flesh wound, guarded life, greater guarded life, ferocious tenacity, stalwart/improved stalwart. I think this would be fun invulnerable rager barbarian to play, but probably not as fun as a beast totem, superstitious, come and get me barbarian.
Stalwart isn't a rage power. Its a feat with 2 prereqs that don't usually come into play(best gotten from a dip into the fighter archetype that gets them both imo). Just a reminder.
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I should note that I've never seen overrun useful. Ever. Too much needs to be just right and it turns into a situational ability. Does your GM set them up like bowling pins for you? Mine doesn't. The damage is also pretty pitiful, especially compared to the pounce that will tear them to shreds.
Vital strike is also feat heavy and for 2 rage power/1(eventually 2) feat investment, at level 6, I can move, still provoke, and then use vital strike anywhere along the way? I see alot of 2 square hallways in pfs, and running down them is not always smart. Vital strike will never be as good as full attacking.
Oddly enough there aren't many rage powers that make you hit harder. The suprise accuracy/powerful blow stuff would be nice, but once per rage makes them an iffy investment. Witch Hunter is the only bonus thats pretty much always on.
I've seen both work out well. PFS fights tend to have mooks that are easy to knock down, and powers that boost overrun make it easy for the 3/4 BAB characters to mop them up. Vital Strike isn't meant to be a main focus, but a backup plan. It's the single highest damage option when a full attack isn't possible. While pounce improves the chances that a full attack may be possible, it doesn't help you in areas where it isn't.
Hence feather step footwear to further increase your chances.
Erm... A pounce makes a full attack almost always possible. Except difficult terrain, but by lvl 10 you probably a a few ways around that.
I'll trust you about overrun. I rarely see it used, so I probably don't know its merits.
Stalwart isn't a rage power. Its a feat with 2 prereqs that don't usually come into play(best gotten from a dip into the fighter archetype that gets them both imo). Just a reminder.
Half of what I suggested were feats and not rage powers, but its a viable option for an invulnerable rager to make him even more "invulnerable". You can dip into unbreakable fighter for the two prerequisites for stalwart or you can start as a half orc and get endurance for free, then pick up diehard when you can without ever leaving barbarian.
I've seen some posts for this type of build - do a search, it looks pretty good. Having played a superstitious, beast totem, come and get me barbarian, I would consider this type of build if I were to play another barbarian.
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He wants a PFS character. By level 10 his career is nearly over. Most Society characters don't reach Seeker levels.
Pounce makes full attacks almost always possible, except when the charge lane is blocked, which happens all too often. I'm not saying that Beast Totem is a bad line, because it's an amazing line. However, it's ridiculous to say that a barbarian that doesn't take a rage power cannot still function well.
Anyway, advice thread! Give the OP some advice to help his character, and try to actually keep to the restrictions he set. Otherwise you're giving useless advice, because he isn't going to take it.
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for an invulnerable rager i would go with smasher line. they are a blast to play, you break the ground and knock all enemies in the aoe prone. then hulk smash with cleave and lunge.
i played it and it was very very fun. they have slippers that are really cheap that let you bypass hindering terrain. using those you can lock enemies into a really really bad position.
Hence feather step footwear to further increase your chances.
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I'm sorry I don't respond positively to:
"Help me optimize by Barbarian except without making any optimal choices--go!"
i laughed when i read this. you have your opinion and it makes you mad when people disagree with "the optimal path" that you feel any barbarian who doesn't do that is wrongbadfun.
next time you dont respond well to something... dont respond at all?
anyway furious finish and vital strike is NOT a trap, if you enjoy playing that way.
They are traps because they pretend to be good feats and look attractive but they are not actually that good. You can like anything, but the fact is Furious Focus helps you hit with an attack that has a really good chance of hitting(it also doesn't scale amazingly) and Vital Strike is only useful if you can't full attack. Vital Strike is also demanding becuase the situations you can and can't use it that can be confusing and it wants you to take 3 more feats over your career to get more effect out of it.
I do not advocate going against what you want or what is flavorful. Just putting that out there.
anyway furious finish and vital strike is NOT a trap, if you enjoy playing that way.
It is absolutely a trap. That does not mean you can't enjoy traps.
If you can find a way around fatigue you may as well just spam all your abilities that are once per rage and nuke everything. I'm not sure if thats a good thing though...
Huh, didn't know I misread that. I could've sworn I read furious focus... In any case, Furious Finish is great so long as you don't have any more fighting to do afterwords. If you have to suffer that fatigue and theres still fighting to do its really really awful. The foe might just survive and full attack you.
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first: MrSin you are confusing furious focus and furious finish...
second: if i choose not to stand in one place, and still want to lay the beats vital strike a fine feat for a player with a full bab (large sized weapons are awesome when you have a 1/1 bab) and the ability to max damage for the weapon.
potion of enlarge person and a large sized earth breaker is nutz when you add in 4d6 base per application of vital strike, the "average DPR" of that one hit is WAY better then the dpr of 2 hits at full bab and bab-5.
third: you dont need to one hit everything, or obliterate everything in one hit. the "math" that people love on these board, is nothing more then a guide line. see i only need to deal 25% of the targets hp. i have teammates, i dont need to solo everything in PFS.
fourth: just like the "monks suck" and "fighter suck" threads that are so popular on these boards, they are pure fallacy. you play what you enjoy, period, and i dont need to solo everything to enjoy myself at the table.
Don't worry, if I put together all these things and get the situation just right, I'll totally do more damage than that guy who consistantly full attacks! Yeah...
Also, I did not get them mixed up. I did misread however and correct myself. Very different things to do. No one says don't do what you want. This is advice and there is optimization involved. Advice about what is a trap and what is good is probably what your going to get.
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anyway furious finish and vital strike is NOT a trap, if you enjoy playing that way.It is absolutely a trap. That does not mean you can't enjoy traps.
im pretty sure that you or i are confusing the definition of a "trap feat"
monkey lunge, elephant stomp, prone shooter = trap feats
vital strike, spring attack = low tier feats but still useful
The reason I dont want Superstitous or Pounce was becouse I wanted something a bit different then all the Barbarians you see in PFS.
I just want to play something different that's still worthwhile.
It's a bit like posting on a supercar forum asking how to get a supercar without an engine that's still competitive with the others supercars. You're asking folks to remove the most numerically advantageous powers from play and still build a good barbarian. I totally respect your desire to play something fun that fits a concept, but just go pick the powers that seem the most fun.
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Don't worry, if I put together all these things and get the situation just right, I'll totally do more damage than that guy who consistantly full attacks! Yeah...
Also, I did not get them mixed up. I did misread however and correct myself. Very different things to do. No one says don't do what you want. This is advice and there is optimization involved. Advice about what is a trap and what is good is probably what your going to get.
mrSin you dont play PFs much do you? if you can "consistantly full attack" in a 5x40 corridor with 6 people blocking your charge lane, my hats off to you. The running gag of PFS is that every encounter consists of you stuffed into a box.
also 3 feats is not really "all these things" you dont lose out on much that would normally effect your full attack by adding functionality while not able to full attack, which happens quite often in pfs.
Erm... A pounce makes a full attack almost always possible. Except difficult terrain, but by lvl 10 you probably a a few ways around that.
I'll trust you about overrun. I rarely see it used, so I probably don't know its merits.
IMO a pounce barbarian without dragon style (which resolves the difficult terrain) is kind of wasted. There's ALWAYS a guy in the party with a huge initiative getting in your way, dragon style resolves that too. Finally, a good barbarian is a reach barbarian, but sometimes guys get inside your reach, and you need to teach them that a 1d3+15 attack exists.
Actually the first time I used my Eidolon on a summoner, there was a Paladin archer in the party. He would always choose to stand in my charge lanes. I asked him not to but he seemed to have this wierd idea that it was more important that he get in my way than anything else. My pounce charging eidolon was really hurt by his antagonistic behavior. Dragon style looks really nifty for those moments...
And I've played in PFS a lot actually. I did at least once a week for about 9 months and then I quit for personal and medical reasons. I don't like someone trying to tell me I haven't.
second: if i choose not to stand in one place, and still want to lay the beats vital strike a fine feat for a player with a full bab (large sized weapons are awesome when you have a 1/1 bab) and the ability to max damage for the weapon.
potion of enlarge person and a large sized earth breaker is nutz when you add in 4d6 base per application of vital strike, the "average DPR" of that one hit is WAY better then the dpr of 2 hits at full bab and bab-5.
Please don't make this yet another thread in which I have to prove that wrong. I have before, I will again. Trust me, your DPR will not be better with Vital Strike than it is with two attacks unless you have a pitifully low attack bonus to begin with (in which case, just start from scratch, don't band-aid over that with Vital Strike).
It's also very unlikely to be two attacks by that point, as Haste/Blessing of Fervor comes into play around the same level as Vital Strike, but that's besides the point.
third: you dont need to one hit everything, or obliterate everything in one hit. the "math" that people love on these board, is nothing more then a guide line. see i only need to deal 25% of the targets hp. i have teammates, i dont need to solo everything in PFS.
Nobody suggested you needed to solo everything. Someone wanted help with the best rage powers. He eliminated the best ones. As another poster said, if you don't want to be the actual best, just pick whatever you think is cool.
fourth: just like the "monks suck" and "fighter suck" threads that are so popular on these boards, they are pure fallacy. you play what you enjoy, period, and i dont need to solo everything to enjoy myself at the table.
Enjoyment and mechanical suckitude have little to do with each other. You can absolutely enjoy playing sucky characters--it happens all the time. This does not make those characters not sucky.
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Enjoyment and mechanical suckitude have little to do with each other. You can absolutely enjoy playing sucky characters--it happens all the time. This does not make those characters not sucky.
oh i see your mannerisms, and lack of proper definitions of your word choices, that seem to be causing my confusion.
by sucky you mean "less optimal then the character i bring to the table" even when the other "less optimal" character is just a functional within that encounter, just not to the same potential DPR.
End result, f you don't want pounce or spell sender lines....
Reckless abandon, str surge, knockback or knockdown. Maybe groundbreaker powers.
Slippers of the feather step help you with difficult terrain, just combine those abilities with boots of speed or striding and spring and your golden.
For tireless rage, without oracle dip, the Cord of stubborn resolve grants immunity, for a small non-lethal fee.
If you've never played a barbarian with the Beast Totem and Superstition line of rage powers, then what does it matter what other people are playing? It will be the first time for you, won't it?
If you insist on making an invulnerable rager without these rage powers, consider a very hard to kill half orc with flesh wound, guarded life, greater guarded life, ferocious tenacity, stalwart/improved stalwart. I think this would be fun invulnerable rager barbarian to play, but probably not as fun as a beast totem, superstitious, come and get me barbarian.
guide to the builds has a barb build with everything you listed at the same time.