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Quote from PRD:
The death attack fails if the target detects the assassin or recognizes the assassin as an enemy...
RAW has it that once she's recognized as an enemy Assassin, she can never Death Attack you.
Ever.
(Unless, I suppose, the PC recognized her as other than an enemy later.)
"WTF!"
Exactly. (Please Flag for FAQ if you disagree.)
It's obvious that an undetected assassin cannot be recognized through senses, but it's an "or" statement, meaning the recognition is a condition that can be fulfilled independent of the detection.
If the target detects the Assassin, the DA fails.
Also
If the target recognizes the Assassin as an enemy, it also fails.
Because the recognition is independent of detection, it leads to the definition of recognition that is non-sensory, as in "I recognize a fact."
I DO NOT like this reading, but it's RAW.
It takes away the ability for an Assassin to kill through disguise (because he's detected, even if not recognized) and to kill anybody who recognizes (thinks of) the Assassin as an enemy (even if undetected).
Horrible.
I prefer (and use in home games) the reading:
The death attack fails if the target detects the assassin AND recognizes the assassin as an enemy...
Then the Assassin could kill if undetected but known as an enemy, and if detected but unknown to be an enemy. Which I believe is RAI, and is the only way I've ever seen Assassins run (though I haven't seen too many Assassins, to be honest.)
Flag for FAQ if you agree the wording should be changed to "And"
Arguably, in this scenario, if the PCs go in and don't recognize her as an enemy, AND she then goes undetected, (without triggering the "she's an enemy" response which I would grant them as an automatic given they know she's a killer), then she can Death Attack.
Since the scenario flat out says she can't Death Attack, there's no reason to quibble here. The designer did not want that level of threat in the scenario.
Substituting it in such a way that Death Attack 'seems' possible (but isn't due to GM manipulation) is wrong. It'll mislead the players, some who will later read the module and wonder why she got a Death Attack. (a.k.a. why you cheated)
And a paralyzed foe, with her flurrying Sneak Attacks, will likely die. Or the guard could coup de grace, making it only a sliver less deadly.
Cheers, JMK
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I played through this last week, and the GM use the death attack. I thought the scenario seemed particularly deadly for the low-tier. I'm sure he just misread the tactics. It did provide some nervous excitement at the table, as most of the players knew what was coming, but didn't want to metagame. Unfortunately, none of us knew the rule well enough to know about the restrictions. We all chipped in for the deceased character's raise dead, etc. The GM also apparently misread the sudden death ability, as Shadow Orchid threw that one at us, too. Fortunately, that pc made his save. The disappointing part is that it made the encounter feel like we should have just burst in ready to fight and not attempted to role play at all. Other than misreading the tactics, the GM ran th scenario well and kept it interesting. And, really, in the grand scheme of things, other than a little cash, the pc death didn't hurt us too much.
I haven't read the scenario yet, but I'll likely run this for my local group soon, so I'm glad to hear the death attack won't be a concern. I don't mind killing pcs. It happens. But I don't like situations where they don't have much of a chance to begin with. I'll have to work on some interesting ways to role play Shadow Orchid, as from what I could see, the bookstore can be an interesting scene.
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Elemental took to air on round one, using reach to smother casters/archers. Proved very effective.
The fact the 1st hit did max damage did much to dissuade them from provoking. :)
I'm not sure if this is written tactics or not (only have played this), but that Elemental is 32' tall. It *can't* fly up.
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I'm not sure if this is written tactics or not (only have played this), but that Elemental is 32' tall. It *can't* fly up.Elemental took to air on round one, using reach to smother casters/archers. Proved very effective.
The fact the 1st hit did max damage did much to dissuade them from provoking. :)
Citation needed on height.
Had I thought of it as 32' tall, I wouldn't have done that (and shouldn't it, technically, have penalties that aren't mentioned for being taller than the 30' room?).
But...
It's coming out of a 25' tall statue, where it says it is waiting, not just summoned from. That's the only indication of this elemental's height.
Or is it 40' tall, like is listed for an Elder Air Elemental? But isn't that based on the 'usual' humanoid shape?
Is your 32' height based on standard 'huge' biped?
This one is not bipedal, but rather like a spider (as per scenario). A 32' (or 40') tall spider with a 15' base? Odd. Noteworthy even, but not so noted in the scenario.
Add that it has perfect flight, and it could be laid out Superman style. Except not 32'/40' that way either because it doesn't gain extra space, it just sort of shrinks (or something) to remain 15'x15', which, in the end, is just as good an abstraction for its (effective combat) height too, 15'.
Similar to the 35' long Frost Worm which fights in a 21' long (diagonal of 15'x15') space. Couldn't a swlrling cloud curl up in whatever fashion the worm does?
Which is all to say, really, you think the height's an issue here?
Tactics are just to attack those with metal armor. I thought it natural for it to take to the air, given its nature. (Plus, the players had asked me beforehand to use the best tactics available to the creatures, to not pull punches.)
I stand by my call.
Cheers, JMK
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While the height of a large, huge and elder elemental is given in the first Bestiary, when it comes to the grid there is only how many squares an enemy takes up. Huge, as I was to understand it, takes up 4x4x4, and while it might be a little taller, there's no need to let them attack it's feet. :)
I think it's perfectly fine to allow the beastie to fly. PCs should have an answer to flight by this level anyway.
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I recently had the opportunity to run this scenario twice at a local convention and this is how I handled the Shadow Orchid's death attack each time.
-The Shadow Orchid was not aware that the PC's knew she was an assassin. (Both party's role played this part well, not revealing that they knew she was an assassin , and posing as "bookbuyers")
-When combat broke out, the first thing she did was "attempt" to use her death attack (swift death , technically) on a PC. The PC's of course, know she is an assassin , so the attack has no effect.
-Combat resumes as usual (With a freaked out Shadow Orchid).
This is how I interpreted what it says in the tactics, the knowledge given ahead of time by Venture Captain Amara Li (Shadow Orchard is an assassin) , and how I thought an assassin would react in such a situation.
Should I have done something different?
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Or is it 40' tall, like is listed for an Elder Air Elemental?
I based the 32' height on the Huge Air Elemental (as I played low-tier). Elder would have been 40' tall as you say.
...shrinks (or something) to remain 15'x15', which, in the end, is just as good an abstraction for its (effective combat) height too, 15'.
Not so.
A 15'x15' Space does not extrapolate automatically to a 15' height. When you have no other indication of it, sure, that makes sense. When you are directly told that, e.g. a Frost Giant (10'x10') "stands about 15 feet tall", he doesn't fight in a 10' cube. A 40' tall Rune Giant, with a 20'x20' space does not fight bent at the waist.
Admittedly an air elemental is a bit.. squishier, than those, but they have an established height. I don't think there should be any penalties involved for the "only" 30' ceiling, but they can't just fly up 15' either. 'Superman style' might work, but it's technically prone at that point.
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You pay the 5 PP to have your body rescued.Without an official ruling otherwise, that's the way I'd go. It just flies in the face of everything the mod tells you about the Sacred Vault to say, "Oh, you died. Well then, we have another way in." :-)
Maybe they wished for your body's return, maybe Arum Zey knows a spell that recovers corpses that he's unwilling to share with others, maybe in that great vault full of items the Decemvirate has been amassing there is an artifact that recovers bodies. In other words, magic did it.
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Fear not fellow Pathfinders!
Even though there are those who claim the Shadow Lodge has completed their task and are thus no longer needed we must all remain vigilant. We must be both willing and able to save our companions from Phrasma's eternal grasp.
In the event that the worst happens we must once again not turn our backs on our companions but be willing to travel to hell itself to recover them.
I will not be stopped in my obligations to my fellow Pathfinders just because the Society thinks the vault they are in is impenetrable.
I will also not be stopped by mere facts, or reason, for I am Farak, the Most Powerful Mage in All Absalom!