Okay, I am kind of sleepy and lost track of the math here, but I am thinking a lvl 9 druid, lvl 1 Mamoth Lord with a triceratops animal companion could be madness.
Large size (normal animal companion, at level 10) does
2d6 + 1.5 str (24) for 2d6 + 10
Powerful Charge means 4d6 + 2x str for 4d6 +14
Mamoth lord means: (+2 str and one size level)
Huge Triceratops for 2d8 + 1.5 str (26) for 2d8 + 12
Powerful Charge means 4d8 + 2x str for 4d8 + 16
Animal Growth ( a 5th lvl druid spell) adds +8 str and one size level, so Str 34 and base damage of 4d6. That means:
4d6 + 1.5 str (34) for 4d6 + 18
or 8d6 + 2x str for 8d6 + 24 on a charge
Now throw in Strong Jaw, a lvl 4 druid spell.
Adds two size levels for natural attacks, double the damage if the chart can't go any higher.
In this case, 4d6 is the highest on the list, so it would be doubled twice. With pathfinder rules, however, that would just be triple damage. Only Triple, lol.
Oh, Throw in improved natural attack on the gore to make things even crazier. Turn that 4d6 into 6d6.
Net result at lvl 10 is a Triceratops that does this:
6d6 + 1.5 str (34) for (6d6 + 18) x 3
aka 18d6 + 54
Powerful Charge is 12d6 + 2x str (34) for (12d6 + 24) x 3
So... 36d6 + 72 damage on a charge.
Am I crazy?
In this case, 4d6 is the highest on the list, so it would be doubled twice. With pathfinder rules, however, that would just be triple damage. Only Triple, lol.
Negative on that, Houston.
You don't double twice with Strong Jaw. You either go up two size steps, or, if this isn't possible anymore, you double the base damage. Once. Without multiplying the Str bonus.Note that going up two steps in the natural attacks table while it lasts is pretty much equivalent to doubling the base damage dice...
Huh, so only 24d6 + 24
I wouldn't say it's only 24d6 ;)
Also note: The Str/Con bonus from Gigantic Steed will not stack with the Str/Con Bonus from Animal Growth. They are both Size bonuses.
My barbarian/druid automatically gets 311 damage in a single attack, though she's got a few extra levels on your guy.
Even under your original assumption, you were averaging only 194-195 damage.
(I still think she could match or exceed your assumption at level ten though.)
My barbarian/druid automatically gets 311 damage in a single attack, though she's got a few extra levels on your guy.
Even under your original assumption, you were averaging only 194-195 damage.
(I still think she could match or exceed your assumption at level ten though.)
Nudel's probably my favorite of your insane character builds, simply for Behemoth Hippo form.
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Yeah...
I have a fellow player in one of my games that is playing a druid, and he is doing the same things you and the Nudel build are doing. It really makes me want to ban or nerf things to prevent this kind of madness. I know you only get one attack, and it takes a few rounds to set up, but it deals enough damage to kill most anything.
Of course, the one time the player has had the opportunity to use the trick the GM hit him with a hold monster right after he was done buffing and he spent the entire combat frozen in place.
Maybe spells and effects that affect size shouldn't stack with spells like strong jaw in terms of damage, but that would still increase the damage by one size category.
I just feel that you shouldn't be able to deal that much damage with a single attack at that level.
It takes one round to cast a single buff spell.
Unless your indoors or in tight spaces, you should always be wild-shaped. Rage is a free action, vital strike is an attack action, and Furious Finish is a non-action. That leaves you with a move action left over. If you've already cast strong jaw (entirely possible since it lasts for several minutes), then all you gotta do is move up and CHOMP.
As far as I can tell, you don't even have to activate Furious Finish until after you know the results of the attack roll. So the only times you'll be stuck with your pants down (fatigued and without rage) is if you manage to do 311 damage and NOT kill the target, or if there are multiple big targets about.
yea, you're taking rounds to buff, casting animal growth, strong jaw, etc.
The barbarian has already killed whatever it was you're facing, if he's half as optimized.
yea, you're taking rounds to buff, casting animal growth, strong jaw, etc.
The barbarian has already killed whatever it was you're facing, if he's half as optimized.
I hope you're not talking about my build. :P
My build doesn't require animal growth. That's one of the many reasons it's so good. It doesn't need much, if any, time to get into the action and finish the fight.
yea, you're taking rounds to buff, casting animal growth, strong jaw, etc.
The barbarian has already killed whatever it was you're facing, if he's half as optimized.
I hope you're not talking about my build. :P
My build doesn't require animal growth. That's one of the many reasons it's so good. It doesn't need much, if any, time to get into the action and finish the fight.
What do you do in the round(s) you are out of rage and fatigued after one attack?
Rest while the remainder of the party mops up a defeated foe? :P
(Also, the penalties of fatigue aren't THAT bad, and if I remember right one CAN enter a rage while being fatigued, so he's got two rounds to do what needs doing without getting into means of combating fatigue/exhaustion.)
Mundane means to removing fatigue is 8 hrs rest. Also last part of Rage:
A barbarian cannot enter a new rage while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat.
I guess this requires high level and one trick ponying yourself into a high base die for a single attack instead of say, a bunch of +atk/dmg bonuses that could be used with a Tiger wildshaped Pounce?
Off-topic, but I just realized how poweful a druid wildshaped into a tiger with his companion being a tiger and the teamwork feat that makes it so when one charges, so does the other.
Furious Finish specifically says you are fatigued EVEN IF you normally wouldn't be. It only lasts for twice the rounds you raged though, so she could pull this stunt every three rounds.
What do you do in the round(s) you are out of rage and fatigued after one attack?
Why fight on of course! -2 Str and Dex and the inability to run or charge are hardly serious penalties.
She could still swing away at +22 to hit for 36d8+17 damage and then grab. That's an average of 179 damage. She also has trample, which allows her to effectively deal with several lesser foes if needed.
Off-topic, but I just realized how powerful a druid wildshaped into a tiger with his companion being a tiger and the teamwork feat that makes it so when one charges, so does the other.
Yes, that would be very cool.
I found out yesterday (and had it mapped out to me) it's apparently possible to do 30d6+some odd damage at level 6 as a magus if you optimise, so this seems completely feasible.
I'm quite curious to see how that was accomplished.
Welcome to the BIG NUMBERS THREAD everyone! :D
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2d6 one size larger is 3d6...not 2d8. Animal growth for another size makes it 4d6. Strong jaw for a two size boost is 8d6. So on powerful charge, you'd do 16d6 + some damage. Hardly all that great for the investment of two spells.
The chart for size increase is in the improved natural attack feat...
Improved Natural Attack
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different natural attack.
I found out yesterday (and had it mapped out to me) it's apparently possible to do 30d6+some odd damage at level 6 as a magus if you optimise, so this seems completely feasible.I'm quite curious to see how that was accomplished.
Welcome to the BIG NUMBERS THREAD everyone! :D
This one i assume is someone misunderstanding intensify spell, thinking they get 10d6 on it at level 6, metamagic empower/intensify (3rd level slot with the magical lineage trait, thus 6th level magus does 15d6 then crits for twice that.
but that's still wrong, though I suppose spell specialization jacks you up to 8th level caster, and a shocking robe would boost you to 9th.... hmmm. just need 1 more effective caster level to actually do it
edit: +1d6 from an actual scimitar.
so yes. Magus with magical lineage: shocking grasp, spell specialization: shocking grasp, and a shocking robe (11000gp, a stretch at level 6) casting an intensified empowered shocking grasp through spell combat crits, and rolls 30d6 plus 2xdex or whatever
I found out yesterday (and had it mapped out to me) it's apparently possible to do 30d6+some odd damage at level 6 as a magus if you optimise, so this seems completely feasible.I'm quite curious to see how that was accomplished.
Welcome to the BIG NUMBERS THREAD everyone! :D
This one i assume is someone misunderstanding intensify spell, thinking they get 10d6 on it at level 6, metamagic empower/intensify (3rd level slot with the magical lineage trait, thus 6th level magus does 15d6 then crits for twice that.
but that's still wrong, though I suppose spell specialization jacks you up to 8th level caster, and a shocking robe would boost you to 9th.... hmmm. just need 1 more effective caster level to actually do it
edit: +1d6 from an actual scimitar.
so yes. Magus with magical lineage: shocking grasp, spell specialization: shocking grasp, and a shocking robe (11000gp, a stretch at level 6) casting an intensified empowered shocking grasp through spell combat crits, and rolls 30d6 plus 2xdex or whatever
yeah and both feats you selected for it becomes pritty useless in the end lvls because it maxes out at lvl10 meaning at lvl 10 you wasted 2 feats!! because you need spelspecialization and spell focus.
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Hiya.
You know what all this min/maxing reminds me of? That skit in "Monty Pythons the Meaning of Life" movie. It's a rugby match between college level rugby players and an elementary school team. The adults virtually kill (and almost literally) the 'opposing team'. At the end, as the kids lay scattered about the field, bleeding, broken, moaning in pain and near death, the college team is jumping for joy at their victory, basking in what they obviously perceive as sheer awesomeness because they won.
When someone shows me how they 'broke' the rules, I always see this little skit. Funny as hell though... :)
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Rest while the remainder of the party mops up a defeated foe? :P
(Also, the penalties of fatigue aren't THAT bad, and if I remember right one CAN enter a rage while being fatigued, so he's got two rounds to do what needs doing without getting into means of combating fatigue/exhaustion.)
Mundane means to removing fatigue is 8 hrs rest. Also last part of Rage:
A barbarian cannot enter a new rage while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat.I guess this requires high level and one trick ponying yourself into a high base die for a single attack instead of say, a bunch of +atk/dmg bonuses that could be used with a Tiger wildshaped Pounce?
I'm 90% sure as well that Furious Focus is referring to the special duration fatigue that Barbarians get for ending a Rage, which is only a number of rounds equal 2x the number of rounds spent in rage. Which would be 2 rounds. Hardly a penalty for 311 damage.
@RavingDork, Is Nudel in Dragonscale Plate without Heavy Armor Proficiency? If not, where is she getting it from? Barbarian Archtype? I cant really tell if she has an archtype.
Nudel is NOT proficient in the armor. Fortunately for her, she isn't wearing it when wildshaped (since it is melded) and thus takes none of its penalties. This is likely one of the many reasons wild armor is so highly priced.
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. Its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.
Since both RAW and RAI say that the ACP no longer applies, then there is no penalty for being not proficient (so long as you remain wildshaped).
Nudel's humanoid stats should reflect the non-proficiency penalties.