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-Race-
Human
-Class-
Fighter (Weapon Master)
-Stats 20pb-
STR 16 (+2 racial)(+2 leveling) = 20
DEX 16 (+2 leveling)(+6 item) = 24
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 09
CHA 07
-Feats-
01 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus Composite Longbow
02 Deadly Aim
03 Rapid Shot
04 Weapon Specialization
05 Point Blank Master
06 Manyshot
07 Clustered Shots
08 Greater Weapon Focus
09 Snap Shot
10 Improved Snap Shot
11 Combat Expertise
12 Greater Weapon Specialization
13
14
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike
17
18
19
20
the AoO's are up to 15ft from the snap shot tree. Something else to add in would be improved critical for the longbow. it only bumps it up to 19-20, but when you do crit it's a x3 which with all your bonus's from weapon spec and weapons training will be huge.
Asta
PSY
Zen archers are also beastly archers.
As for the fighter, weapon master gets all kinds of good crit abilities. As for bracers of falcon's aim, many people say get them. I do to, if only for low levels. After that, get the bracers of archery greater and Imp. Critical. Reason is the falcon bracers mimic imp. Crit and eyes of the eagle goggles. The goggles give a + 5 to perception, those bracers give +3. Also, since the IMO. Crit is a feat and not an item. If you are ever caught without it, or in a anti magic field, even though not a huge loss, you now lost that ability, versus the feat, which is always there.
I don't recommend penetrating strike because it mimics what clustered shots is already doing, which is bypassing their DR. Get combat reflexes, so you can optimize on your 15' threat range from improv.ed snap shot. Don't get greater, it sucks mostly.
All your bonuses from leveling, race, item should be in dex. Fighter have a full bab, and access to greater Weapon focus and specialization which many classes don't. They have plenty of damage, no need to waste your level, or race bonuses to a few extra damage, when you already overkill as is. That's better off spent ACTUALLY hitting the enemy. What's e point of having all that damage, if you can't hit it.
Your taking penalties from rapid shot, iterative attacks, deadly aim and that's just your own doing, not including what other penalties may arise. Even cover is a empty, because even though your attack is lowered, the opponents defense is increased, that alone is a disadvantage even further for you. Making the attack hit is more important than damage.
Gloves of dueling are a fighter must. And make the bow adaptive in ability, so it can flex to your str.
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Don't get improved crit, get the Bracers of Falcon's Aim. +1 to hit, double crit threat, and +3 perception for 4000gp. And get Pendant of the Blood Scarab for 1000gp. Or get 3 of them. When crit threat, activate to auto-confirm once per day and do 1d6 damage to yourself (then take it off and put on the next one.) Yes, the x3 crit is huge for archers. Easily over 100DPR by 7th level or so.
Also, to critique Psion-Psycho's build... why 14 INT? Just for skills I guess. And why +2 racial into Str? Should be Dex. The extra +1 damage from strength is much less valuable than an extra +1 to hit.
My 20 point buy would be:
STR 14
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 8if you really want the extra skill point/level, 12 INT and 7 CHA
especially when you get point blank master, snap shot, improved snap shot, you will be a front-liner, and will want the hp from 14 CON, and the extra AC from more DEX than STR
Edit: also, though you were asking about a bow fighter, bow rangers and paladins are also pretty freaking awesome, so give it some thought.
The 14 int is for the extra skill point and because Combat Reflexes requires 13 int and thought might as well bump it to 14. The reason for Str is because as a fighter the archer's to hit is gonna be quite high as is even using Rapid Shot/Multishot and Deadly Aim. Also the damage adds up especially when needed to by passing DRs of monsters since ur not able to add ur main stat mod to damage like u could with melee weapons.
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Also reason for both Cluster Shots and Penetrating Strike chain is for by passing DR. Cluster shots makes it were the DR only applies to the sum of all ur Attacks while Penetrating Strike chain makes it were u take 5-10 off that DR for the total which at times means u just completely by passed the targets DR.
combat reflexes doesnt reguire 13 int. you are thinking of combat expertise.
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-Race-
Human-Class-
Fighter (Weapon Master)-Stats 20pb-
STR 16 (+2 racial)(+2 leveling) = 20
DEX 16 (+2 leveling)(+6 item) = 24
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 09
CHA 07-Feats-
01 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus Composite Longbow
02 Deadly Aim
03 Rapid Shot
04 Weapon Specialization
05 Point Blank Master
06 Manyshot
07 Clustered Shots
08 Greater Weapon Focus
09 Snap Shot
10 Improved Snap Shot
11 Combat Expertise
12 Greater Weapon Specialization
13
14
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike
17
18
19
20
Drop Int to 10 and raise either Con to 14 or bump Wis to 11 and Dex to 17 and place a point from leveling into Dex to make ur total Dex 26. Also replace Combat Expertise for Reflexes lol.
If an archer is doing over 150 Dmg , taking off 10 points of damage isn't a big deal, considering clustered shots does all the work. Wasting two feats for the 10 points of damage from the total, is a waste of feats.
Since you will be getting combat reflexes, and snap shot, and imp. Snap shot, you might as well as get the pin down feat. It Will interact very well with snapshot and prevent your enemy from 5' step or withdrawing. So when they want to get up close, and think you can't use your bow on them, they'll regret it when try to get away. Otherwise they'll provoke an AoO that does damage instead of stopping them, when they try to just move normally away from you.
Throw in Toughness and your more hardy, so you can frontline more. Many archer's don't try at all to be close to their enemy, it's not beneficial. However, the fighter can do it if they decide to maximize on their AoO. Even if it's one attack, vs. 1 or 2 enemies, that's still 1d8+20 Dmg avg mid level damage per arrow. Each AoO is inching you closer to defeating the enemy. So when pin down comes in, it'll force them to stay with you toe to toe. So choose your opponent wisely so your not overwhelmed. Also, you can't flank with a bow currently, but you will threaten out 15', better then a reach melee character.
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If an archer is doing over 150 Dmg , taking off 10 points of damage isn't a big deal, considering clustered shots does all the work. Wasting two feats for the 10 points of damage from the total, is a waste of feats.
Since you will be getting combat reflexes, and snap shot, and imp. Snap shot, you might as well as get the pin down feat. It Will interact very well with snapshot and prevent your enemy from 5' step or withdrawing. So when they want to get up close, and think you can't use your bow on them, they'll regret it when try to get away. Otherwise they'll provoke an AoO that does damage instead of stopping them, when they try to just move normally away from you.
Throw in Toughness and your more hardy, so you can frontline more. Many archer's don't try at all to be close to their enemy, it's not beneficial. However, the fighter can do it if they decide to maximize on their AoO. Even if it's one attack, vs. 1 or 2 enemies, that's still 1d8+20 Dmg avg mid level damage per arrow. Each AoO is inching you closer to defeating the enemy. So when pin down comes in, it'll force them to stay with you toe to toe. So choose your opponent wisely so your not overwhelmed. Also, you can't flank with a bow currently, but you will threaten out 15', better then a reach melee character.
I love the idea of Pin Down and did not think of that. Very spot on. Though i still think Penetrating Strike chain is needed especially because with AoO are only single attacks meaning that DR will effect the damage even more so.
Even so, those AoO are at least 10 points of Dmg from the one arrow for the attack. Wasting two feats, even for a fighter, to save 10 pts of Dmg, for an AoO is really wasteful and is better used elsewhere. Also, you won't get into AoO a lot unless you force that combat style on the enemy. As the archer, you want to try avoid those scenrios, but if you want to run into the muck go ahead. But for those two feats to be wasted for that off chance, I'd rather get something that is available to me all the time, that serves a better purpose.
Awesome and timely thread as I have a 3rd lvl FPS fighter archer with exactly the same stat set up.... I really like the snap shot line and some of the options it can offer and the retraining advice is killer - really good stuff all. However, how do we manage the low wisdom score without any feats to assist. Sure the cloaks of resistance, ioun stones, and a trait can help. But what are your all's thinking? Risk the low wisdom score for a more DPR? Keep in mind that in PFS games ya never really know who is going to be sitting down and sometimes being more well rounded can be more vital vs a know party for a campaign.
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I may be wrong but it appears to me that Psion's build is a 15 point build and not a 20?
16 = 5 = 14 +2 racial
16 = 10
10 = 0
14 = 5
9 = +1
7 = +4I see 24 available points and only 20 spent.
Maybe:
14 + 2 racial = 16 = 5 points
16 = 10 points
13 = 3 points (+1 later for all the xtra HP's)
14 = 5 points
11 = 1 point (maybe +1 later for extra saves and perception.)
7 = +4 pointsNo prob with will power now.
The numbers in my build that are not in parenthesizes is the base. The numbers in parenthesizes are numbers that modify the base like racial and leveling.
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Btw my finished build for the character is as follows if u want to use it as a bases of thought for the character if it gets beyond level 12.
-Race-
Human
-Class-
Fighter (Weapon Master)
-Stats 20pb-
STR 16 (+2 racial)(+2 leveling) = 20
DEX 16 (+2 leveling)(+6 item) = 24
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 09
CHA 07
-Feats-
01 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus Composite Longbow
02 Deadly Aim
03 Rapid Shot
04 Weapon Specialization
05 Point Blank Master
06 Manyshot
07 Clustered Shots
08 Greater Weapon Focus
09 Snap Shot
10 Improved Snap Shot
11 Combat Reflexes
12 Pin Down
13 Greater Weapon Specialization
14 Hammer the Gap
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike
17 Vital Strike
18 Improved Vital Strike
19 Greater Vital Strike
20 Bullseye Shot
-Method-
Clustered Shots and Penetrating shot makes DR apply to the total damage from full round attacks and reduced that DR by 5/10. Snap Shot gives the ability to perform AoO and Pin Down makes it were withdraw actions and 5ft steps provoke and will force enemies that get into melee to stay in melee when needed. Vital Strike chain and Bullseye Shot ar to make use of the Weapon Master's Unstoppable Strike when forced to make only standard action attacks or when facing an enemy that's ac is so high that only one attack will hit. Unstoppable Strike btw ignores DR and hardness anf hits Touch AC.
I'd go with a small character (halfling/gnome/goblin) for the -1 damage (D6 vs D8) +1 attack/+1 AC. Also just more fun than the bland human.
Improved Precise Shot is only available at level 11. A seeking bow should also be affordable at this level. As I understand it, the seeking property is superior to the feat Improved Precise Shot. But if it is somehow unavailable, you should take IPS.
@Flatliner: your build has an abysmal will save. At 11th Level, I suppose you have a cloak of resistance +3. Your will save will be +6 then. As soon as it is targeted, you're out of the fight or fighting for the other side. I strongly recommend you to increase it, unless you know that you will almost never fight against casters.
If you're going to be human, there's versatile human for +2 strength and +2 dex, which is (afaik) the only pfs legal way to get that stat array.
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Good catch! And fwiw, I don't think PBM is really necessary. As an archer, you don't have to be in melee, so you're not as much, even if you don't try not to be, so you get hit less, so you have more hit points, so you don't care if every once in a while you trigger an AoO...
Im guessing u have never been ambushed on all sides and forced in2 melee or time were every1 needed to get into a circular defense were the weakest person was in the middle safe from melee and given bonuses against ranged attacks. Ive been in such situations and in such situations i wish these feats even existed at the time for i could get them on my archer. There are times were the DM corners u and forces melee and in those times the typical archer is screwed since all of its attacks will provoke. The build of mine above is to make the character viable DPR at range and in melee if that occurs. Also if the character needs to the build gives the archer the ability to pseudo tank by not letting any targets escape its threatening area.
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Good catch! And fwiw, I don't think PBM is really necessary. As an archer, you don't have to be in melee, so you're not as much, even if you don't try not to be, so you get hit less, so you have more hit points, so you don't care if every once in a while you trigger an AoO...Im guessing u have never been ambushed on all sides and forced in2 melee or time were every1 needed to get into a circular defense were the weakest person was in the middle safe from melee and given bonuses against ranged attacks. Ive been in such situations and in such situations i wish these feats even existed at the time for i could get them on my archer. There are times were the DM corners u and forces melee and in those times the typical archer is screwed since all of its attacks will provoke. The build of mine above is to make the character viable DPR at range and in melee if that occurs. Also if the character needs to the build gives the archer the ability to pseudo tank by not letting any targets escape its threatening area.In PFS? Not really. I've chosen to stand in somebody's face and shoot him a few times, and have been hit doing that maybe once. And I'm 9th level (ranger). Same goes for my 2nd archer, a 6th cleric, except he's never been hit from an AoO.
And expecially once you have improved snap shot, the times when you'll be provoking an AoO will almost entirely disappear.
Still not worth a feat IMO.
Man PFS is lean-lent. Maybe i should start playing in PFS games. I haven't played in a Module since Grey Hawk so who knows it may be fun.
Fighters do enough damage as is, to lose out on the dex for armor training and other features for 1/ roll a day, and +1 Dmg sooner, isn't worth it.
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Thinking about the archtype:
Weapon master gets a bonus vs disarm and sunder, 1 reroll with his bow per day, and weapon training 2 levels sooner.
I may consider a vanilla fighter build here for the massive reduction in armor penalty and the ability to but that huge dex bonus onto your defense.
Another alternative could be the mobile fighter. They get weapon mastery only when moving, but get a saving throw bonus and 2 armor bonuses, and it doesn't say you have to melee.
Both archtypes may have better survivability than the weapon master, although the weapon master slightly out damages them.
The 1 thing i like about Weapon Master, when it comes to range weapons that is, they have additional defense bonus when being attacked with there weapon. Normally from my observation most archers go with longbows most of the time meaning the weapon master longbow is at an advantage when being attacked by a longbow.
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No offense, but your stat allocation is fairly terrible. If I was making an archer fighter, I would do something like this for base stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 18 (16 + 2 racial bonus)
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 7The extra 5 points you're spending to get Str from 14 to 16 could be much better spent bumping Con and Wis up a little bit. You are going to be a DPR monster even with 10 Str and if some BBEG charms or dominates you, guess who's going to feel all of that DPR in the face?
I know the whole charm thing is an issue but that is on purpose. Usually DMs dont like having characters that are to good and i dont mind being the 1 to kill the party in all honesty. If the DM wants to end the game that way then the DM will end the game that way. Also though the bump in wis would help out, though u can always roll a 1 on that save which that bump in wis meant nothing. At least the bump in str allows u to have a more powerful Composite Longbow so when u roll a 1 on its damage ur still doing some damage. Also all characters need some str if they plan on caring any of there equipped items our loot or like in the games i play in money since it does have a weight. The con on the other had i completely agree with since imo u can never have to much health.
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In PFS, it's not up to the DM. If the monster tactics say "this monster uses Charm Person on the enemy that seems most threatening" then the only choice the DM has is deciding which party member appears most threatening. I'll give you 3 guesses who he's going to choose, and the first 2 don't count.
BTW, 14 Str gives you somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 lbs as light encumberance and 120 lbs as medium encumberance. Movement really shouldn't be too big of a deal for you as an archer and you can still add +3 to AC from Dex with medium encumberance.
And if you insist on going with a 9 in Wis, may as well drop it to 8 and bump Con to 11 and then drop a level-up bonus in there for the extra HP.
Ok my 3 guesses are the Rage Barbarian wield a Great axe, the 2 Handed Fighter wielding a great sword and the Dervish Dance Magus that is using Shocking Grasp every chance it can. That covers the consensus of most the players on these forums right that are not god wizards or army summoners right?
The one thing I would critique on most of these build suggestions is wasting any points on a Con greater than 10. Since this is going to be a Fighter build, you have a d10 HD to begin with, which should give you plenty for what should mostly be a second line combatant. Those 2 points of Con would probably be a much better investment into Wisdom to give you a +1 Will save. Even the 1 extra skill point a level it would give you if you put it into Int, would probably be of more use to you, than the extra HP.