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The only case I am aware of where party members can spend gold together is to purchase "spellcasting services." Specifically, you are purchasing a spell cast by an NPC, not a spell in potion/wand/scroll form.
Relevant quote from pg. 24 of Organized play guide 4.3:
"You are also permitted to spend your character’s gold to help a party member purchase spellcasting services such as raise dead or remove disease."
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But they can't all chip in ... consumables have to be purchased by a single player, who records it in his/her chronicle (whether kept or sold back for 50%, which would also be recorded).Got a citation for that?
I remember it was stated that you can chip in on something, say a scroll of Plane Shift, at the beginning of an adventure where your group thinks they are likely to need it. If it gets used, it is gone. If it doesn't get used, it is sold back, and everyone only loses half of the money they spent at the beginning on the scroll.
No, I don't have a direct citation, because I think the idea attempts to end-run around the regular rules. Any purchase to be made has to be recorded on a chronicle (even if it is sold back at the end of the night), which means it has to be on *someone's* chronicle. That person alone pays the money, and that person alone sells it back for half price. I have never seen anything to make me think people could pool money to buy stuff then sell it back at the end of the night. What would happen if it *were* used? Who would end up recording the purchase?
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No, I don't have a direct citation, because I think the idea attempts to end-run around the regular rules. Any purchase to be made has to be recorded on a chronicle (even if it is sold back at the end of the night), which means it has to be on *someone's* chronicle. That person alone pays the money, and that person alone sells it back for half price. I have never seen anything to make me think people could pool money to buy stuff then sell it back at the end of the night. What would happen if it *were* used? Who would end up recording the purchase?But they can't all chip in ... consumables have to be purchased by a single player, who records it in his/her chronicle (whether kept or sold back for 50%, which would also be recorded).Got a citation for that?
I remember it was stated that you can chip in on something, say a scroll of Plane Shift, at the beginning of an adventure where your group thinks they are likely to need it. If it gets used, it is gone. If it doesn't get used, it is sold back, and everyone only loses half of the money they spent at the beginning on the scroll.
Umm, that is the same kind of record keeping needed if you chip in for a Raise Dead, isn't it? And that is what the box labeled "Gold Spent" is for. Bribes, kicking in for Raise Dead or a Water Breathing scroll or what-have-you during an adventure.
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Umm, that is the same kind of record keeping needed if you chip in for a Raise Dead, isn't it? And that is what the box labeled "Gold Spent" is for. Bribes, kicking in for Raise Dead or a Water Breathing scroll or what-have-you during an adventure.
Chipping in for spellcasting (such as Raise Dead) is specifically called out in the guide, chipping in for other items is not. I just don't see any support for your position (much as I would truly like to, it would be a great benefit to the players).
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so my lvl 5 cleric bought a scroll of Breath of Life and has it in a wrist sheath. If i use it on someone in the party who doesnt have one himself (i have one on every character once they can afford it) the party member(s) cant pay to replace the scroll i used?
I just want some clarifacation(pardon my spelling).
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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so my lvl 5 cleric bought a scroll of Breath of Life and has it in a wrist sheath. . .
Expect table variation on that - a wrist sheath is described as being able to hold a light weapon, ranged weapon, wand, or ammunition. A scroll isn't mentioned, and I know GMs who will not allow one to hold a scroll.
If I use it on someone in the party who doesnt have one himself the party member(s) can't pay to replace the scroll I used?
No, they can not - communal funds can not be used to purchase something material that remains in your possession after the end of the scenario.
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so my lvl 5 cleric bought a scroll of Breath of Life and has it in a wrist sheath. . .Expect table variation on that - a wrist sheath is described as being able to hold a light weapon, ranged weapon, wand, or ammunition. A scroll isn't mentioned, and I know GMs who will not allow one to hold a scroll.
I would allow it. Spring-loaded wrist sheaths can hold anything for-arm length.
"The sheath can hold one forearm-length item such as ...."
A scroll is just a 8.5x11 inch paper that is double rolled. That is pretty small and fits that definition. Some GM's though may take the only mentioned examples are legal in PFS route.
In the end though, John is right...YMMV
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Brett
This is how I read your suggestion and how it enables access to restricted items.
Player a buys item x on his chronicle - an item to which player B has no access, sells it, gets 50% back and player b buys it.
Player a loses 50% as he only buys it with the sole purpose to sell it to player B. Because he loses out money, player b return the favour.
Player b buys item y on his chronicle - an item to which player A has no access, sells it, gets 50% back and player a buys it.
Net effect - you buy something for approx. 150% that is on the chronicle of another player.
This would not be legal. Once the item is sold back, it goes into the ether. The other player would still need their own chronicle or the Fame to buy that item.
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I can see the benefit of introducing a rule saying that PCs are allowed to pay to replace consumables (e.g. potions) that are lent to them and then consumed during the scenario.
I would agree to this as long as
1) The consumable was purchased at full price by the lending character and not something gained through a class feature. We don't want to start a side economy (other than a day job roll).2) The player being lent the consumable could purchase the item themselves.
3) Consumables are replaced with the same exact consumable (Not an equivalent cost consumable, not gold or any other form of money).
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I'd rather not open the door on this, either. I'll lend out holy water, cure potions, flasks of oil, tanglefoot bags, etc., to ill-equipped characters (with a recommendation that they should think about getting their own). If they use them to further our mission I'm O.K. with that.
If they're allowed to pay to replace them, what next? Will some players expect that? Will there be a demand to let people pay me for charges expended from my wand of cure light wounds?
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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The job of the GM is not to punish the players if their knowledge of every last detail of the rules is not as encyclopaedic as that of the GM.
Pointing at somebody who makes an honest mistake and calling them a cheat doesn't make for an enjoyable experience for anybody at the table.
In fact belittling another player's knowledge of the rules is itself a violation of a very important rule - don't be a jerk. People who don't abide by that rule are the ones who I feel shouldn't be sitting at PFS tables.
If it happens at my table I'll explain the rules to them, but in a non-confrontational manner. I'll also point out that if they really do want to pay the character back then what they should do is buy an extra potion or two themselves, and the next time those two characters adventure together and the one who lent out the consumable item needs something of comparable value you can let them use up your one. Or they can just pay it forward the next time they adventure with someone who could make good use of it. Think of it as fulfilling the third part of "Explore, Report, Cooperate!".
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Guys, can I just step in real quick here:
What we're seeing in this thread is an argument between "bending the rules when it doesn't hurt anyone" and "all rules must always be followed strictly at all times." Each camp thinks the other is criminally insane. They aren't going to agree, but they are going to just go out into the world and keep doing what they think the right thing. Further argument will induce no change in this pattern.
There, I just solved the Internet for you. Turn off your computers and go outside.
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So long as the only thing the lender gets back is an item identical to what they lent out, I fail to see how this could result in a "side economy".
For example, if an alchemist lent out an antiplague (50gp price) that he made (for 1/3rd price) which then got used, if the lendee then paid 50gp to buy a new antiplague to give to the alchemist, the end result is that the alchemist has exactly what he started with, and the lendee is only out the price of what he used.
I have no problem with allowing this so long as:
1. The purchase of the replacement item otherwise obeyed all existing rules on purchases.
2. The lender receives ONLY an item identical to what they lent out to begin with (i.e., no giving the alchemist the money for him to make a replacement, even if he would immediately use that money to make it).
Except that the original "Antiplague" created by the alchemist could not be sold because it was a character created item. However, if he traded it to another player he would get a purchased item in return. This item could then be legally sold for half price, yielding the alchemist 8 gp and change profit.
This and other shenanigans are bound to happen and probably the reason why the whole darn concept is banned. It's much easier the way it is and it doesn't take a list of rules to enforce.
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Strange my friend in San Diego was complaining about it being 38F there today. Which is like 10F warmer than it is way up here, thousand+ miles away.
I've got 61 right now. I admit that it has been a little chilly at night lately. We've had to close the windows before going to bed. But then, it is February.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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can he purchase and replace (say diamond dust my cleric thought to bring 1 use of in case he needed a restoration) at the end of the mission the group actually needed 2 more in town as it turned out
No.
To repeat what I alluded to upthread: you are the only person who can pay for anything material that will remain in your possession beyond the end of the scenario.