This scenario presented itself in a friend's game.
GM: *rolls social dice pool and wins challenge against PC*. I win. Now your character has to have sex with *insert NPC here*
Player: what!?!? My character would never do that.
GM: those are the rules. If I win a roll, you comply.
Player: I'll go ahead and roll with this, but I'm letting you know I'm very uncomfortable with being told what to do like that.
Now, I know this is a game I don't attend, but I was invited. All I could think after this player told me this was how violated I would feel if I had taken up the invite and that had happened to me.
Am i being too sensitive?
| 11 people marked this as a favorite. |
IMO it probably should've had an addendum:
Player: "Would you say the player is flat footed while he's lying down?"
Gm: "Yeah, I guess...why?"
Player: "I pull out my boot knife and chop his dick off."
Player (OOC): "Never pull that s~@~ again."
B~**~%@%!
Refuse.
Barring powerful enchantment magics and failed saves, players have the choice in what they do, and are officially immune to pesuasion checks anyway, e.g. you can't just diplome a pc so that they give you all their healing.
Second thing, the gm is being a pervert. This should be pointed out and he should be brought in line.
*rolls social dice pool and wins challenge against PC*
I don't think this is D&D we're talking about here, so D&D rules about removing player agency may not apply.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
I feel bad for the hobby whenever this creepy sh*t comes up.
*rolls social dice pool and wins challenge against PC*I don't think this is D&D we're talking about here, so D&D rules about removing player agency may not apply.
Yep, gm made a successful bluff. The player could have bogged this all down by asking where is this rule? Nice and clear please, show me before we continue. That sort of thing.
| 40 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes. That is inappropriate and utter b!$%%#*#, and were I in that situation, I would leave the table and the game immediately, and that is the advice I would give your friend.
There is NO game that I know of that would ever say, "Social rolls force your character into having sex."
The GM is abusing his power to have a sex fantasy at the expense of his player's fun, and possibly a rape fantasy. Steer the f%%! clear.
Deadly serious here.
Also, generally speaking, if you feel queasy about something or feel in your gut that something's very wrong, it's wrong. It doesn't matter what anyone else feels or tells you you should feel. It's wrong for you. Don't undercut your instincts, those are the kind of instincts that protect you from predatory behavior.
DeathQuaker writes the truth.
Yes. That is inappropriate and utter b!@!!%@#, and were I in that situation, I would leave the table and the game immediately, and that is the advice I would give your friend.
There is NO game that I know of that would ever say, "Social rolls force your character into having sex."
The GM is abusing his power to have a sex fantasy at the expense of his player's fun, and possibly a rape fantasy. Steer the f~&@ clear.
Deadly serious here.
Also, generally speaking, if you feel queasy about something or feel in your gut that something's very wrong, it's wrong. It doesn't matter what anyone else feels or tells you you should feel. It's wrong for you. Don't undercut your instincts, those are the kind of instincts that protect you from predatory behavior.
What disturbs me is how easy this creepy stuff can come up.
Another dm, he got off on killing pcs, we lost a lot of characters. You could see it in his beady little eyes that he was having too much fun. The party wizard (a male char in this instance) was raped by a female ogre. Not so much fun storming the castle.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gone are the days of wholesome adventure and happy smurfs.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Different groups do things different ways.
If you are not comfortable with the way a specific group adjudicates the rules, and they are unwilling to adjust to make you comfortable, then thank them for the invite and find another game.
As to social rolls acting as a "you must do x or y" I simply disagree no matter if it's a PC or NPC. If it's not in their nature then they are not going to comply, no matter how well you roll.
It is smurfing creepy when you look at someone and see their anticipation for what is to come next when only one of the two people are comfortable with it.
Yeah, a dm can try fiat, and a player can try explain, that is not how this character rolls, but the boundaries need to be set if this type of thing comes up.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
OK. I've favorited DeathQuaker's post. I'm making a pointless post to emphasize how much I agree with DeathQuaker. What more can I do?
(1) The player should have simply gotten up and left. I would have, and I am exceedingly mild-mannered. This is not appropriate behavior at any table at any age for any sex.
(2) You are not being overly-sensitive. If anything, you are being overly polite by even asking the question. The answer is, "The GM should never force the player into any sort of sexual situation by any means unless it has been agreed on beforehand that such things may happen."
The *only* reason I even mention the 'unless' part is that I just finished Hook Mountain Massacre with my players, and before we started, I took them aside one-by-one and said, "This is a really disturbing module. These are the themes I plan on playing up. Would you prefer I avoid any of these themes for your comfort at the table?"
I talked to my players individually, BEFORE THE GAME STARTED, of what I had in mind, and if any one of them had asked me to exclude anything, I would have at the drop of a hat. The fact that the GM did this mid-game speaks of psychological issues I shall not delve into here.
Different groups do things different ways.
If you are not comfortable with the way a specific group adjudicates the rules, and they are unwilling to adjust to make you comfortable, then thank them for the invite and find another game.
As to social rolls acting as a "you must do x or y" I simply disagree no matter if it's a PC or NPC. If it's not in their nature then they are not going to comply, no matter how well you roll.
It is smurfing creepy when you look at someone and see their anticipation for what is to come next when only one of the two people are comfortable with it.
Yes, the eyes of lust and rape.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The GM doesn't understand the rules, or how to run a game. The social roll isn't mind control. It's an adjustment to the attitude of the characters. If I make a remarkable Diplomacy check at a bar, a nameless hottie might be in a better mood, might flirt, might not be caustic. Might not file a restraining order. But not even charm person will force someone to do something against their nature.
That's the rule. The bigger part of this is the GM's complete lack of class. He needs to be castigated by his players and reminded that it's not his job to equivocate the 'fantasy' in 'fantasy role playing'.
Having said that, it's a game and people haave fun differently. So if this behavior is par for the course for a group of friends and just makes you queasy, you've learned something about who not to hang out with.
Might not file a restraining order... yep.
If sex and players comes up in games, I give them a lot of choice, otherwise they will not be interested in this side of rp (romancing npcs, the dance of courting, etc).
As to social rolls acting as a "you must do x or y" I simply disagree no matter if it's a PC or NPC. If it's not in their nature then they are not going to comply, no matter how well you roll.
This. There is nothing that can force your character to do something that you don't allow, aside from very powerful enchantments or something like that. Doing so sounds like an abuse of GM authority.
GM: *rolls social dice pool and wins challenge against PC*. I win. Now your character has to have sex with *insert NPC here*
Player: what!?!? My character would never do that.
GM: those are the rules. If I win a roll, you comply.
Player: I'll go ahead and roll with this, but I'm letting you know I'm very uncomfortable with being told what to do like that.
I don't know if this scenario is a matter of the GM not understanding the rules, or just going with their own, or whether it was meant to be a joke or just for fun, etc.
However, assuming the player was not kidding when they say that their character wouldn't do that, and that they, as a player, are uncomfortable with it, the GM should definitely stop that immediately.
The sad part is, Mr. Nepherti plays in this game, and he seems to have fun, but had no clue this stuff was going on. I almost feel like asking him to quit. I don't feel comfortable with him having to go through that.
This sounds a bit strange. What game is this with social pools and such?
World of Darkness, Mage the Awakening, with one werewolf.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree with the consensus: the GM was way out of line here. You don't put PCs into sexual situations against the player's will.
If I were playing in this game, I'd call a time-out and have an OOC conversation with the GM about how inappropriate I thought this was. Depending on how that talk went, I'd then decide whether to stay or quit.
|
Sad this is still happening at games. I have had things like this happen in games. The best you can do is at the time refuse as others have said. Social rules influence a characters actions not mind control them.
Best thing is talk to the GM about it and explain you are not ok with this. If they refuse to understand, then sadly your only choice is to find a new group.
I know personally due to things like this I nearly gave up on gaming years ago, till I finally found a mature group to play with.
You know, sometimes I'm struck by the two different faces of our hobby. For the most part, the people I've met and gamed with have been really cool and fun to get to know, even if some have been a little peculiar. On the other hand, and admittedly they form a small minority, there have been some absolute creepos who are just living out some weirdo fantasy via their tabletop games.
I don't know for sure that the GM in Nephertis example is in the second camp, but that sort of scenario just strikes me as being wrong on so many levels. Even if it wasn't a sexual situation, taking control away from you like that and dictating what your character does is bad form. That unwanted sexual advances were the end result takes him straight to freakazoid land.
Nepherti, you're NOT being too sensitive, you're listening to your gut, and that's a good thing.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
World of Darkness, Mage the Awakening, with one werewolf.
I *THOUGHT* this might be white wolf...*sad sigh* That particular ruleset has been ruined by gamemasters that mix knowledge of the rules with a lack of knowledge of social boundaries or lack social skills entirely. Nepherti, as a gamer who would not be having this conversation with you if not for White Wolf, I wholeheartedly apologize. This is NOT acceptable, and you should inform Mr. Nepherti preferably after you place your heel in this jerk's kneecap and press down HARD.
|
|
This is NOT acceptable, and you should inform Mr. Nepherti preferably after you place your heel in this jerk's kneecap and press down HARD.
Need to move up about 18-24 inches depending on how tall he is and more centered but otherwise I agree. Well other than press down hard, perhaps replace with swift kick instead.
If the GM does this Social Roll and says "OK you have to have sex with 'Blah', that is wrong.
Either this whole thing is Out of context, or the GM did not inform the player that he was going to have to do what ever with 'Blah'. It sounds like the latter.
In the AP that I am in Second Darkness, the GM told me I had to have sex with one of the Noble Drow. No big surprise like World of Darkness GM. Our Witch even gave my character a Hex for some STD :D
The moral of the story is that the GM gives the player a CHOICE. Everyone talks about making the game fun. Once the GM takes that away, what's the point in playing?
|
I'd say yes as well...
though I do have a few games where players express their characters a little too much to the point of hooking up with NPC's...
NPC's suggest, but have no *roll* to convince players to do things, they request, threaten, bluff and bribe to get what they want.
Players at any time can call a stop (not just the player involved), but I let them roleplay what situation they want up to the point anyone else becomes uncomfortable with it.
If its something I don't want in the game, then its just not going to happen. Things can be implied, but no rape or things that players don't want will happen to their characters.
For example: players can be very attached to their familiars, so no putting them on the battle grid means they can't be targeted... but those who use them in combat open them selves up for attack.
Slightly off topic, but the thought is the same, if the player character does not want to roleplay seduction or be rules lawyered into it then it shouldn't happen.
i.e. Other player/gm rolls, yay I win seduction roll, effected player character laughs "maybe you should come back when your equipment is up to size" and walks out... annoying player succeeded, but nothing says the character has to go through with the act... the more you torture the person, the less likely they will try that again on you
Works well for me. Though I did have one player take it too far on his own character he had to retire it while everyone else cringed at his inappropriate erotic play at the game table with an NPC he seduced.
He learnt that taking it too far was a bad thing and loss of character was a suitable punishment
While not disagreeing with anyone here, I do have to ask;
Could this perhaps have been a misaligned attempt at being social by the gm. It's obviously this is the worst experience anyone, not just women could have gaming, but I've known people who think they're being funny/witty/engaging, when they're really just coming out creepy.
I would advise the person to disengage from the group, as the situation is already terribly awkward, but if your husband is a part of the group, ask him about the gm's personality. If you're comfortable, and know what you're looking for, why not join the group for a little while to get your own read on this gm.
perhaps hes just some awkward nerd stumbling down the wrong path, and might very well blossom with some redirection.
this GM is super charismatic, egotistical, he plays in a game I am part of run by a mutual friend (who just happens to be the player whose character was forced into sex). this is this guy's first time GMing.
I think "super charismatic" may be subjective because "charismatic" is hardly how I'd describe someone who is obviously extremely socially awkward.
There are some things you just don't do, and taking a rape joke too far is one of them. This is pretty much the same thing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
this GM is super charismatic, egotistical, he plays in a game I am part of run by a mutual friend (who just happens to be the player whose character was forced into sex). this is this guy's first time GMing.
He needs a sit down and to be informed that this is not okay for future games. Or a busted kneecap that implies this.
This is NOT acceptable, and you should inform Mr. Nepherti preferably after you place your heel in this jerk's kneecap and press down HARD.Need to move up about 18-24 inches depending on how tall he is and more centered but otherwise I agree. Well other than press down hard, perhaps replace with swift kick instead.
As someone who has gotten kicked in the groin on several occasions and also dislocated his knee, I would greatly prefer a another swift boot to the magnificence over another dislocated knee. That said, YMMV.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I should probably reword that to super manipulative. this guy makes friends easily, is a social butterfly. incredibly charming, I had a crush on him when we first met, he was very likable and funny.
now, I doubt my ability to call him friend.
|
|
As someone who has gotten kicked in the groin on several occasions and also dislocated his knee, I would greatly prefer a another swift boot to the magnificence over another dislocated knee. That said, YMMV.This is NOT acceptable, and you should inform Mr. Nepherti preferably after you place your heel in this jerk's kneecap and press down HARD.Need to move up about 18-24 inches depending on how tall he is and more centered but otherwise I agree. Well other than press down hard, perhaps replace with swift kick instead.
One can get you brought up on assault charges the other one the cops would say, you likely deserved it then.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sounds like he was using the player and the player's character for his own gratification without the player's consent. Not cool, not okay, not good GMing, not acceptable behavior.
You are not oversensitive; your reaction is perfectly justified.
Point out to him -- once -- that unless the player character is somehow magically controlled by an NPC, the GM doesn't get to take over what they do, and that coerced sexual activity is a sensitive subject for most people and a painful subject for many. If he doesn't heed that, I wouldn't play with him any more.
|
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can't really add anything that hasn't been said more clearly already.
Stuff like this is a good sign that it's time to hit the eject button. Not saying such subject matter can never be part of a game, but it absolutely needs everyone at the table to be on the same page about how to handle those themes rather than springing it on folks that do not want it.
Gaming is like bondage. It requires informed consent and empathy for the other people involved, else it's being done wrong.
That and the studded leather armor.
In the AP that I am in Second Darkness, the GM told me I had to have sex with one of the Noble Drow. No big surprise like World of Darkness GM. Our Witch even gave my character a Hex for some STD :D
The moral of the story is that [b]the GM gives the player a CHOICE.[b] Everyone talks about making the game fun. Once the GM takes that away, what's the point in playing?
Where the hell was your choice here? You were told your PC *had* to have sex with the drow.
Sounds like he was using the player and the player's character for his own gratification without the player's consent. Not cool, not okay, not good GMing, not acceptable behavior.
You are not oversensitive; your reaction is perfectly justified.
Point out to him -- once -- that unless the player character is somehow magically controlled by an NPC, the GM doesn't get to take over what they do, and that coerced sexual activity is a sensitive subject for most people and a painful subject for many. If he doesn't heed that, I wouldn't play with him any more.
I would suggest removing or tweaking the "unless the player character is somehow magically controlled..." clause. I don't know how similar Mage: the Awakening's magic system is to Mage: the Ascension, but the older magic system was pretty broad and RAW could allow an unfettered and unscrupulous GM do all kinds of awful things and say, "but the rules say I can, this is how magick works" all day long. Of course, one would hope GMs like that are left behind all too quickly, but if they are manipulative and the player is inexperienced or insecure they may not do what they need to to get out, at least not fast enough.
I know what you're getting at about GMs taking over mind-controlled characters but if the GM would and could abuse that to do, well, abusive things, then boundaries need to be discussed before game rules.
DQ, the system is practically identical, but this wasn't a magical compulsion, it was apparently a simple Manipulation + Persuasion vs Composure + Empathy.
World of Darkness, Mage the Awakening, with one werewolf.
Ahh, well that game can get into weird territory, and you can lose control of you char pretty easily. There is a reason it was loved by emos and goths for many years, and has stepped into forbidden/perverted sexuality quite a bit in its history (one official product had "art" involving a female vamp raping a bound an traumatised human with a... product found in adult stores). I think cracked/something awful wrote a bit on this if you want more details.
Some games will take control of your char right away, lose this roll you are sexually subordinated. It is a far cry from my cup of tea.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm an old wod girl myself, but even our Sabbat LARP knew when to draw the line. We had 15 year old theatre kids in that game. One guy tried to rape an npc in character,and he got his sheet ripped up in front of the whole group if 40 players.
You just don't do that.
That is a fantastic end result right there. Ironic as well, want to rip up an npc (or pc)? Your sheets are ripped up.
Dunce caps should be included.
I as well feared seeing the WoD for why this happened. I don't think that you're being overtly sensitive, and while you can ask for the Mr. to quit, that may cause some bad feelings down the road, but you may ask him why he didn't say anything on it...
DJ, Mr. N wasn't at this session. He plays the werewolf. The session was for the 3 mages.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What a turd of a human being. It would be game over for me... Even if I were just another player at the table.
