Chase Deck?

[ThorGN]

There are several PFS scenarios that now feature Chase Scenes. As a GM, can we use the GameMastery Chase Cards Deck as a substitute to the scenario’s prewritten chase sequence? I think that would be fun, and introduce a more random element into the scenario, especially for players who might already know what’s coming.

If “No”, I understand. It may be too close to changing the scenario.

If “Yes”, then you will have at least one more person purchasing this product.

[Off in the Shower]

Some scenarios actually suggest it.

I don't recommend it.

The chase DCs set out in the adventure tend to have a balanced assortment of skill checks.

With a chase deck its random and can be bad in a random way.

I've experienced this first hand with a GM using a chase deck in a scenario instead of the written skill checks. It didn't turn out well.

[Dennis Baker]

As for the legality of it. I believe in at least one scenario it says specifically you can substitute the cards it, it might say it in all of them.

In Gods Market I put in specific obstacles based on the Ascension Court area to give the feel that you are actually having the chase in/ around that part of Absolom. I'm not sure about the rest of the chase scenes.

I don't It's your call whether you want to preserve that feel or not.

[Mergy]

I prefer to use a chase deck compared with the listed chase. It lets me set out obstacles one at a time, and it lets me tweak the chase a bit if I know my party is going to have a ton of trouble with a specific obstacle. Unfortunately, I'm not sure where my chase deck has gone... :(

[noswald]

As long as you sort out the different areas (Forest, Urban, Dungeon) and only use the specific area for the module, (I forgot to separate the areas and ended up getting a cliff in the middle of Magnimar and just went with it) it actually runs well with the deck. The next time I ran with the deck, it was lots of fun, even to a couple people who normally don't like the chase scenes.

[CRobledo]

I also prefer to do the chase decks. There is only one scenario so far where I thought the pre-printed chase worked out better than the deck:

Spoiler:

Rise of the goblin guild

[Christopher Rowe]

noswald wrote:

As long as you sort out the different areas (Forest, Urban, Dungeon) and only use the specific area for the module, (I forgot to separate the areas and ended up getting a cliff in the middle of Magnimar and just went with it) it actually runs well with the deck. The next time I ran with the deck, it was lots of fun, even to a couple people who normally don't like the chase scenes.

Y'know, as it happens, there is a cliff in the middle of Magnimar. It separates the upper city district of Naos from the Lowcleft and Dockway neighborhoods.

[noswald]

Christopher Rowe wrote:

noswald wrote:

As long as you sort out the different areas (Forest, Urban, Dungeon) and only use the specific area for the module, (I forgot to separate the areas and ended up getting a cliff in the middle of Magnimar and just went with it) it actually runs well with the deck. The next time I ran with the deck, it was lots of fun, even to a couple people who normally don't like the chase scenes.

Y'know, as it happens, there is a cliff in the middle of Magnimar. It separates the upper city district of Naos from the Lowcleft and Dockway neighborhoods.

Looks like Heidmarch manor is close enough to the cliff for this to work... but it seriously derailed the chase.

[Don Walker]

Nothing stopping you from pulling the "cards" that appear in the module and laying them out as if they were random draws from the deck.

Using the cards (even if they aren't random) adds a visual element to the game that the cut up slips of paper do not.

[Beckett]

Off in the Shower wrote:

The chase DCs set out in the adventure tend to have a balanced assortment of skill checks.

Really??? Every single Chase I've seen has been noticably one-sided, and I was honestly concidering buying it on the chance it might balance out the skills more.

[Chris Ballard]

One problem that I've seen in some scenarios with the chase features is that the characters have to choose between two trained skills when they don't have ranks in either.

[Beckett]

Thats kind of what I mean. I pretty much ever Chase I've ran or played (PFS) it gets to a point (usually fairly early) where the party is just stuck, and essentually needs to resort to ranged combat or spells. Essentually defeating the entire point of a Chase Scene.

[Dennis Baker]

Beckett wrote:

Thats kind of what I mean. I pretty much ever Chase I've ran or played (PFS) it gets to a point (usually fairly early) where the party is just stuck, and essentually needs to resort to ranged combat or spells. Essentually defeating the entire point of a Chase Scene.

Why does that defeat the point? It says explicitly in the chase rules that you can use ranged combat or spells. A character could conceivably skip the chase altogether and just cast hold person and end it. It's all part of the mechanic. Merciful scorching ray? Crossbow bolts?

People seem to assume the game stops being Pathfinder the moment the chase rules break out, but that's not the case. There is a reason the chase rules are broken into segments that align with combat rounds.

Now.. if there are hazards that obviously block line of sight, then you might be out of luck.

[Beckett]

I mean more specifically casting Daze or Sleep, or just dropping the enemy because only the Rogue can make it past the first or second set of blocks. Defeating the entire point of the chase by stopping the chase from actually happening.

[Dennis Baker]

If your party gets in a fight and the wizard casts sleep on the enemy in the first round have you defeated the entire point of combat?

It's no different. Chase scenes are an encounter, there is more than one way to overcome them.

[Beckett]

I did say defeating the entire point of the chase, not defeating the entire point of the game.

The point I'm making is that they do this for the simple fact that they know they can not make a Disable Device, Fly, Escape Artist, or Acrobatics check. I'm not saying that i think it is wrong, I'm saying that it is because so many chases are based around just a few skill check types, and often favor one class or two, and leave everyone else not really able to advance unless they roll a lot of Nat 20's (or fairly high rolls), despite the Chase rules specifying that all types of skills shoulf be used evenly.

[Dennis Baker]

Huh?

The point of the chase is to catch the guy running away (or contrary-wise get away from something chasing you).

That's it.

Hitting the enemy with daze so your party mates can catch them or so you have time to catch up is completely within the scope of chasing someone. Same goes for sleep, hold person, etc.

[John W Johnson]

I just hate chase scenes (Both as a player and as a GM), so when they are shown as being optional, I just skip them.

[CRobledo]

For the players getting stuck on the chase scenes do keep in mind the newest rules for them DO allow for three things:

1. Creative solutions - if the card says that a mob of commoners are blocking your way, you should let them bypass it with creative solutions, such as casting sleep on the crowd or using maybe Perform (oratory) to get them to move out of the way.

2. using a full-round action to bypass a card entirely, regardless of DC.
Yes, it's slower than attempting the card's DCs but as you said above sometimes it's the only way to get past a card.

3. Full card bypasses - your BSF decides to quaff a potion of flying. If the cards are just some ground obstacles like mobs and walls, the BSF should be able to simple double move past cards without a problem. This is perfectly fine. He spent a resource to defeat an encounter.

[ThorGN]

Well, I ordered one and I am looking forward to using it.

Along those lines is there a list somewhere of scenarios I can GM with chase scenes? I know of 2 already. Or is that way too spoilerific?

[Pyrrhic Victory]

I love the chase mechanic and the chase deck. I included a chase in one of the adventures in Midgard Adventures. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

[The Great Rinaldo!]

ThorGN wrote:

Along those lines is there a list somewhere of scenarios I can GM with chase scenes? I know of 2 already. Or is that way too spoilerific?

That's what the spoiler tag is for!

The ones I know of:

The three I know are
Midnight Mauler
God's Market Gamble
Rise of the Goblin Guild

I personally love chase scenes, and my players seem to enjoy when I have run them.

[Michael Brock]

Yes, if you own the Chase deck, you may use it. It is certainly optional and GMs may also run the chase as printed in a scenario.

[Erosthenes]

Recently played Midnight Mauler and the chase scene:

Plot:

Went well as written, with the appropriate skill checks. My Thief caught the baddie with a couple other party members close enough behind to assist in short order.

I kind of liked it (Cringing in preparation for anti-chase scene flames). But then, I had the skills to be effective. I can see how someone would be put off by the chases unless the have the relevant skills.

[Yiroep]

I actually played Midnight Mauler just recently as well and we used the chase deck.

Midnight Mauler:

I really liked the chase deck for the scenario. My wizard actually ended up casting an extended haste at the beginning which was absolutely VITAL to us catching up to him. We didn't really have any skill monkeys, but we were able to get through it enough to catch up to him right as he got to the end.

I just looked back at the scenario, and it looks pretty good as written, too. I just really like the randomness of the chase deck. I will definitely use the deck whenever there's a chase scene.

["Devil's Advocate"]

Michael Brock wrote:

Yes, if you own the Chase deck, you may use it. It is certainly optional and GMs may also run the chase as printed in a scenario.

I haven't noticed it, ao it might already be put out somewhere, but could that be added to the PFS FAQ and/or the Additional Resources page?

[Dennis Baker]

It's 50GP to grab a potion of expeditious retreat, that grants you a +6 bonus to overcome any obstacle in chase scenes. It's a cheap guarantee that your character will never be stuck at the gates for a chase scene.

It's cheaper than buying multiple flasks of alchemists fire to fight swarms and much cheaper than buying items to overcome magical darkness. Your character would only need one potion at any given time and its useful for other things too.

[Pirate Rob]

Dennis Baker wrote:

It's 50GP to grab a potion of expeditious retreat

expeditious retreat is range: personal and thus not available as a potion.

[Dennis Baker]

Gah. I should know better than post off the cuff comments without looking things up.

Longstrider, Slipstream, Fly, Levitate, Spider Climb, Elixir of Tumbling, etc etc. Some are personal, some are potionable. All offer bonuses in chases. Lots more options as well. The point is everyone has options they can use to overcome it, few people actually bother to do so. All of these options are also useful in other situations.

[ThorGN]

With the amount of scenarios that are put out per year, I’m actually a little surprised that only 3 of them utilize the Chase Scene, and all of them in an Urban setting. I would love to see a few more with Forest and Underground Chase Scenes in them.