The Characters are based on Thorin & Company as you will see by reading the names in parenthesis on the page.
NOTE: These are not meant to be faithful conversions merely Inspired by the group. Think of them as Parodies and/or Homages if you would like.
I will be updating them later on with a Background for them and eventually will link to their own personal ToC that list them from level 1 to 20 and will hopefully have a layout for each of them to go onto the Guide to the Builds thread.
Right now I am basing it purely on the links on this page combined with making them an entirely Self-Sufficient Group.
Build is using 25 Point Buy & all Paizo Sourced Content on the d20pfsrd.
Any Recommendations?
I did some similar scribblings of my own, and I'd be happy to share ideas in a few hours after university. Going from 1-20 seems like unnecessary work though, I'm struggling just through statting 14 NPCs. Are you using some kind of Chargen for that, at least?
I used the elite/basic arrays and NPC statistics (as per the Gamemastery bit of the Core Rules) but I'm sure we can trade ideas and the like, even if you arent going for faithful conversions.
Good luck!
why did you make dwalin a cleric and ori a bard?
Balin seems to know everything (in the movie) i'd put him as the bard.
You have several extra rangers in there too... why? Something I missed about them? Or just for the halibut?
Pendagast these are the 2 lines you must have missed.
NOTE: These are not meant to be faithful conversions merely Inspired by the group. Think of them as Parodies and/or Homages if you would like.
Right now I am basing it purely on the links on this page combined with making them an entirely Self-Sufficient Group.
Most of them are Rangers as that is the only way to reliably get their fighting styles without making them to M.A.D.
Ori is a Bard simply as it was either that or Rogue and he struck me more as a Bard who would stay in the back chucking stones while buffing his allies.
Balin I was thinking Middle Aged THF or maybe even Lore Warden. Though a Knowledge-based Cleric would fit him a bit as well...
@Twigs: All of these will be by myself no Character Generator. But they will be done over time. I only will need levels 1, 2, & 3 at the beginning. But they will be up to level 20 as I like having the options of pulling them out to play as Back-Up characters as well.
NOTE: These will be my first Rangers in a while.
I wasn't meaning it as a criticism, I was just wondering why you chose the classes you did.
Balin struck me as a bard type (knowledge and history) Ori struck me as worthless! although jackson is probably setting up a 'come uppance' with his sling schtick. get the crowd used to it being useless and then in a pivotal moment have it actually be effective.
yea rangers with the fighting style is a neat trick without having to pay attributes for it.
I figured that was it. I was just making sure those lines were made clear.
Hmm...
Ori might be a good Forgemaster Cleric.
Balin could be a good Bard.
Is there a Knowledge-based Bard Archetype? If not I will probably go Lore Warden.
Aren't all bards knowledge based?
I mean if you weren't 'bound' by the dwarves(ie limited to things they have been written as doing), just merely inspired by them....
Thorin -Ranger
Dwalin- Barbarian
Balin - Savage Skald
Ori - IS there a slinger archetype? Or a ranged rogue
Dori - Lore Warden
Nori - Fighter
Biffur - Polearm master
Boffur - THF Inquisitor (always seems to know what stuff is, like stone giants etc)
Bombur - I'm at a loss...bloatmage?
Fili -Knife Master Rogue
Kili- Ranger
Oin - Cleric
Gloin - Fighter
Ori: Sniper Rogue.
Bombur: Cleric or Alchemist.
Balin: Bard or Lore Warden.
Bofur: Inquisitor.
What Racial Variants fit them?
I am thinking the Exile with Wyrmscourged.
I think wyrmscourged was invented in honor of Thorin and company, it's at very least a tribute.
I can deal with bombur as some type of alchemist. But there is also witch (he's a cook with a pot... says cauldron to me)
Just looked at it, exiled with wyrmscourged is good. they lose their stone cunning, which I suppose makes sense, they don't notice the secret trap door in the goblin cave, and can't find their own back door in erebor, so not having stone cunning makes sense. Relentless drives home their mobile style of fighting and gives them an edge during the goblin fight scenes (consider that overrun)
The wyrmscourged removes dwarf hatred, but Thorin buys that back with Ranger favored enemy, so all in all I can buy that.
Sniper rogue seems too effective for Ori. Maybe court Jester erm I mean bard.
What IS the deal with that slingshot???
And Thorin is worried about BILBO surviving in the wild and wether he has contributed? Has Thorin even NOTICED Ori the worthless??
Ori: I would say is more of a Craftsman than a Warrior. Hence why I put him as a Forgemaster.
Thorin: A Ranger with what Fighting Style? TWF or THF?
Bombur: Any good Alchemist Archetypes? Hmm, if only there was a Brewmaster Archetype. Witch could work but their really aren't any other fitting Hexes.
I am thinking just using Relentless and Wyrmscourged and leaving Hardy.
yea i like hardy.
Well Thorin is best know for being "oakenshield" so I would shield fighting style, in which TWF is a feat you can choose, but gives him access to shield feats at higher levels he would otherwise not get with the standard two weapon ranger combat style.
Hmmm im going to search the witch hexes... perhaps an alchemist but he doesnt make anything either, and he doesn't throw bombs. Although maybe he's a master chymist of high enough level he's always in his "bloat form" haha.
I really like what Jackson did with most of the dwarves, particularly Thorin, Dwalin, Balin, Fili and Kili, to a lesser extend gloin.
But Ori, Dori, Nori and Biffur , Boffur, Bombur, he really needed to not go so much doofus on them.
What about his other TWF Feats? After all does he ever use the Shield again?
Maybe just the TWF with TWD?
Otherwise I would agree.
& Does the Relentless Ability apply on a Shield Slam?
Also I am planning a Special Weapon Enchantment that is awesome for him...
I might include it once I figure out its price.
Bombur: What about Vivisectionist? Though I kinda like him as another one of the groups Ranged Support Fighters.
the only real things hed be missing out of ranger TWF is double slice and 2weap rend. which there is no reason to beleive he has. No proof hell ever pick up things like improved or greater TWF, and two weapon defense doesn't stack with a shield. so no loss there.
He's not known as Thorin Axe and sword. He's Oakenshield, so I'd go with the weapon and shield style. Which opens up the option to TWF Axe and sword if he so chooses.
So iconically you have to go with the shield.
He will get a shield again im sure before or during the battle of the five armies. I doubt you will see him with a shield again until then since it's lost at the end of Unexpected journey, unless it has Indiana Jones/ Jack Sparow's hat quality.... meaning it always shows up somehow... which would be hilarious.... like slay a goblin and find it..."hey where did you get this?"
Did Indiana Jones ever lose his hat for more than a few seconds maybe a Minute at most.
And I actually had a moment like that with my Fighter's Shield and a Kobold.
So building him around a Sword/Axe & Board Fighting.
Also I redistributed the Party. I kinda wanna keep the Class decisions at a Minimum and keep the Buffing and Stat Block On-The-Fly adjusting to a Minimum... after all I will most likely be running 3-5 of these guys on top of the Enemies and keeping track of the combats going on.
What I am thinking is their Combat Gear is at cost and will probably have PC WBLx1.5 with the .5 being all their Consumables. This is Also making them closer to my PCs I am planning to have running as the PCs will be having around WBLx2.
If I went Fighter with him it would put off his Shield Feats but open up his Feat Options and allow him to be able to Fight with his Sword/Shield and Sword/Axe combos. He will be a Bit more M.A.D. but I can resolve that pretty easily. Especially since he won't necessarily be the "Face" of the group.
Should I make Two-Handed Fighters into Two-Handed Weapon Rangers?
Maybe Ori could be a Trapper Ranger who is also the crafting master of the group?
Well, ranger is the way i usually go with dwarves and TWF.
1) I have a hard time picturing high dex dwarves. In old 1E they always had racial minuses to dexterity/agility based things, like move silently, climb walls and hide in shadows. So Ranger is a great way for me to "see" them TWFing
2) They just seem too stubby to me to pull it off otherwise. (IMO dwarves should get a -2 to dex, not cha, but the masses would declare it an unplayable race if that were done)
IF you went fighter you win more feats all around (sometimes harder to keep track off them all) but lose Thorins "orc hatred" which might not matter for for campaign specifically.
TWF, two weapon defense, weapon focus , weapon specialization, double slice, two weapon rend.... could be a fun sword and axe fighter.... again as a DM how much do you want to keep track of, fighters have a lot of options to track..
Which is why I go with basic static bonuses...
But I am thinking of making them mostly Rangers... Maybe a Few Archetypes here and there.
It also decreases the need for a Higher INT on them to get the Skills they need for their tasks.
Also what would be the minimum level for these guys to annihilate an Adult Dragon with ease? 5th?
I am thinking of them all being some form of Ranger with the Exception of Bifur and Bombur. Maybe Ori with either the Skirmisher or Trapper Archetype.
They all take Favoured Enemy Dragons, Orc, Goblinoid, & Reptilian. This leaves a 5th open Favoured Enemy. Any other common enemies that might work with Dragons?
EDIT: Doing a little math and searching... Bifur and Ori get more out of being Rangers.
Trapper! hey! maybe he sucks in combat, because he's a trapper.... might work.
Favored enemy? ELVES dude, your missing out on ELVES!.....
Ranger(Trapper) with the Archery Combat Style.
Elves?
Any good Rogue Archetype that fits Bilbo?
Ori: I am thinking he will need Sleight Of Hand to get the Juggle Load Feat Or give him a Sling Glove mocked up as a Slingshot. Though using a Normal Sling allows him to use it as a Sap or such with Feats.
EDIT: What type of Animal Companion(s) do you recommend? Say Pony/Horse?
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Bilbo should be a Charlatan. Lose trapfinding/trap sense, which isn't Bilbo's style, and get a bluff bonus and free rumourmonger talent which suits his more social nature.
Also note that that spotting the weak point in Smaug's armour is a great example of Sneak Attack potential.
What about Uncanny Dodge and Imp. Uncanny Dodge which doesn't fit him either?
But Charlatan is nice. And fits with him being the "Face" of this Group.
Maybe Burglar? Though that seems a bit Heavy Handed...
good way to make bilbo might be the Sandman Bard Archetype. Stylize his bardism as storytelling/riddles. this gives him sneaky, lock picky trappy ness with more of a bard's sense of preferring to stay at home, tell stories and smoke his pipe.
Azaelas, yes ELVES, you don't think they hate elves? After Mirkwood? They were going to slaughter the entire army of them before the goblins showed up (not that they would have succeeded, by they were certainly going to try!)
Edit: Personally, I would have crept into thranduils bed chamber and slit his throat if I was Thorin. Long ago.
Thranduil would make a perfect member of the Winter council , a very unlikeable, self centered elf. I wonder how he and Elrond got along?
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Bard definitely works if you're going for "inspired by" instead of "close conversion" and don't mind Bilbo getting a decent measure of arcane talent. But why Sandman in particular? Celebrity strikes me as a better fit given his status as a Baggins of Bag End (and later measure of fame in other parts of Middle Earth).
What about Uncanny Dodge and Imp. Uncanny Dodge which doesn't fit him either?
But Charlatan is nice. And fits with him being the "Face" of this Group.
Maybe Burglar? Though that seems a bit Heavy Handed...
I see trapsense being more "not Bilbo" than Uncanny Dodge is, and the face abilities immediately struck me as a plus. Despite the obvious appeal, Burglar felt like a less good match to me. You could always use both archetypes since they're compatible. The Burglar's Careful Disarm is a little less useful without trapfinding/trapsense, but it's not useless, and the Distraction ability seems appropriate.
Sandman Bard, Hmm... I was thinking as a Charlatan Burglar he can confuse enemies with riddles and long winded stories... & Burglar's abilities don't come into play until later.
Though Scout would be nice...
I understood the Elves as a Favoured Enemy... I was even thinking of having a battle similar to the Battle of Five Armies occurring.
I guess I can fluff it as them Fighting Drow and turning that training against the High Elves...
Still need Animal Companion ideas...
chose sandman because you get sneak attack, and trap finding, which fir the iconic rogue, and the sleep part could be flavored by boring listeners to sleep with stale stories.
Bilbo is a chronicler and story teller, after all. Riddles, stories, books. Good bard. Sandman gives him the burglar part, you could buy away spells with masterpeices.
Ok Sandman it is...
What about the Animal Companions for the Dwarves? I am thinking of giving them non-combat Animals just to make it easier to track.
I am planning on having Stat Blocks for Levels 1 to 20 but I am probably only going to use Levels 3, 10, 15, & 20. Maybe Level 5.
So lets figure out those levels then break them down further.
Say 5, 10, 15, & 20. Then break it down.
why have animal companions? swap it out for the buddy system.
So trade it for the simpler tracking but an ability that probably won't be used? I can do it but it feels like a Waste when I can have them using it as their Transportation.
bought ponies can be transpo.
Their orc hatred could be added to the whole crew (fighters and bards etc) giving a blanket favored enemy bonus. adds the extra effectiveness against goblins/orcs etc that the dwarves lose when they take wyrmscourged.
Probably would only be a big battle bonus anyway.
In the book/movie they lose the ponies early, so doesn't seem to reason they are animal companions, but just ordinary ponies.
BUT if you were throwing in mounts.... there has been talk of Thorin as a Cavalier....
I'm having visions of Thorin on a unicorn....any takers?
I'm having visions of Thorin on a unicorn....any takers?
No Thanks...
And most of them are Rangers... In fact all but one is a Ranger. So now they can only give the Bonus to three regularly unless they have some basic NPCs around them.
And is it me or is it sad that building a large group of Focused PCs makes you realize that a Rangers Combat Style really is better for picking up feats to round out your build rather than picking up key feats for your build...
Like Kili & Ori should take Two-Handed Weapon, the Two-Handers should take either TWF or Archery to fill out their builds... And well the TWF should stay TWF, and Thorin should say Weapon & Shield.
you dont need any feats to fight with your weapon in two hands tho
The thing I am thinking is it would add some flexibility. Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Furious Focus, & Improved Sunder.
The Two-Handers like Dwalin would take TWF for their Secondary Weapons.
The Two-Handers like Balin would take Archery and probably use a Bow as their back up weapon.
TWF & W&S will remain the same. It is mainly do to the fact that the way their stats are going to be laid out they need the Pre-requisites negated. And this will give them a bit more Flexibility.
Instead of 3 or 4 ranged units now they are a bit more flexible in combat.
have you seen those cool dwarf feats in URG?
Which Feats? Goblin Cleaver & Orc Hewer are ones I was thinking of including, but I am unsure on...
You are referring to the ARG(Advanced Rage Guide) right?
those are cool... there are no giant to fight in ME but what about your campaign will there be giants or.....
"They Might Be Giants"?
Hmm, what Favoured Enemy could I exchange for FE(Giant)?
And why do I feel like I just missed a reference?
Cleave Through is a nice feat as well...
EDIT: Favoured Enemy, Favoured Terrain, & Combat Style Feats are up. Any thoughts?
EDIT2: Lightened/Light Weapon Enchantment has been added. What do you think?
OK I have NO idea what you are talking about in edit 2.... what am i missing?
so there ARE going to be giants to fight? i thought you had one FE open you didnt want to fill with elves?
In ME I would have given the dwarves favored terrain plains, oddly enough they don't seem to travel, fight or spend time in the mountains... even if they were to go to battle living in erebor, they would fight in the plains, which is what is outside the lonely mountain.
But, your area might be different (unless you are recreating ME)
for weapon shield I'd grab TWF and then improved shield bash.
For TWF grab TWF and two weapon defense? or... double slice
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So trade it for the simpler tracking but an ability that probably won't be used? I can do it but it feels like a Waste when I can have them using it as their Transportation.
Pendagast's right that the ponies in the Hobbit were nothing special, but since you're already taking artistic license with the conversion, go with what makes sense and give them animal companion mounts.
Exactly, Thorin gets his unicorn! Yay!
alright I found Thorins Mount:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=513376482019116&set=a.236 258769730890.58159.233510693339031&type=1&ref=nf
See if that works
At the very bottom of the Doc is the Light Enchantment.
Thorin will be able to pick up TWF outside of his Combat Style. Not that he needs it for fighting with his shield after to long as he gets Shield Master which negates the Penalties for TWF with a Shield & Weapon.
It would only be needed at level 5 and below.
If you scroll down you will notice that TWF has the 3 TWF feats, Double Slice, & TWD.
I am planning on them leading small groups of Dwarves into combat so Companion Bond is the better option.
Especially since they will be coming into play in my "Reclamation of Hell's Gate" Campaign.
UPDATE:
- I will be able to get up the Ranger's Level Progressions within a day or two.
- It might be a while before I get the Level 2+ Stat Blocks up...
On a Side Note: I am beginning to despise putting together a Ranger's Stat Block. Even if a lot of the information is Cookie Cutter...
UPDATE:
- Stats are up.
- Most of Thorin's Progression is up. I just need his 19th Level Feat.
- NEXT: The Two-Weapon Fighting Dwarves.
- THEN:The Archery Dwarves.
If you have any suggestions please throw them in.
sling shot dwarves that are so pathetic they HEAL enemies?
sling shot dwarves that are so pathetic they HEAL enemies?
What?
Ok what are the Monsters on the Front Cover of Ultimate Combat?
Yetis.
On another note... I have never, In game, seen a weapon of dwarf bane/slaying.... curious
I've been reading all of these hobbit-based conversion posts and trolling with interest. Although familiar with the books, I hadn't seen the movie, so I didn't participate. With the exception of voting for Gandalf converting to Pathfinder as a powerful outsider without classes.
I just saw the movie.
IMHO, those dwarves are all mid-level at least. Maybe 7th at minimum. My evidence is the following:
The laws of probabilities, lack of damage reduction, and the benchmarks of falling damage and minimum goblin damage ~d6 all tell me that they all need 40+ hit points each. One might think that Gandalf added a cure spell to his entrance, but I personally think he didn't.
Anyone, you all have had your discussion, but I wanted to add my two cents to your conversion thread. I hope you don't mind.
cheers
That's the problem with movie sensationalism. In the book, they were dragged through the a crack in the back of the cave.
the trap door scene could be "sliding" and not taking any damage. Tons of movies have people, who are supposed to RL people doing falling things into garbage cans, down construction chutes and all sorts of things that if you think about it, their head would be cracked on the sidewalk like a ripe melon.
The falling with the wooden thing was also sliding, the great goblin falling on them... comic relief.
However, if you were to calculate the damage an ogre falling on you from that distance in game? Dude that'd be tons of damage.
So if you base it on that alone.
10th level dwarves wouldn't hire a 1st level hobbit.
And how would Bilbo have survived half the things he went through?
His fall into gollums caves was arguably more dangerous than the wooden slide the dwarves went through (discounting the great goblin belly flop)
and he went through the same slide fall into the goblin area they all did.....
So is bilbo 7-10th level too?
No. Bilbo could be less, because he only went through to the goblin cage. The fall to Gollum's hole required a hero point to survive.
EDIT In the movie, Gandalf was pretty specific about the dragon not knowing what a hobbit smelled like. So that would be one advantage. The second is that not one of the dwarves is a burglar. With Bilbo's Dexterity and +4 for small, he would still have better Stealth than higher level dwarves.
with 6 hp....
or fili and kili likely being rangers.... his stealth would beat the stealth of a mid level ranger?