George, Jon, anyone else playing in my game, stop reading!
Also, I want this secondary storyline to be linked to a recurring villain who operates largely behind the scenes, that the players get hints to his identity, eventually confront him, and likely arrest him, or drive him away (need a way for him to not be killed, ideally), only to continue to exert his influence from behind bars/banishment, or beyond the grave if they do kill him (such as with schemes he put into place before his demise).
I'd like for this to be largely urban, used to show off the city the players are starting in (a major port and trade city located at the mouth of a river...think along the lines of NYC--river trade, sea trade, a hub of commerce, travel destination, and center for intermingling cultures), and possibly some surrounding lands, or the capital a few days' journey away. This is partly to counterbalance the deal of exploration, traveling and dungeon-delving the players will be doing on the main story arc, and to counterbalance the largely hack-n-slash feel of the main story with some intrigue.
I'm just not sure exactly WHAT I'd like this to be about, what form it should take, or who and what the villain is. I'm thinking he or she would be a crime boss, maybe dealing in drugs, murder, illegal trafficking of slaves, kidnapping, what have you, likely a wealthy noble using an under-boss in the slums as their "face."
Slavery is illegal in this land, but not everywhere, as are poisons, most drugs, obviously murder, extortion, racketeering, and other related crimes. The city is populated mostly by humans and halflings, then by dwarves (a dwarven kingdom is nearby), with a smattering of other races present.
I'd like a series of say, 4 or 5 short adventures within the city that slowly uncovers the identity of the "face" and then the actual person pulling the strings, with a few weeks to a couple of months between one incident and the next, that has the PCs interacting with NPCs around the city and involves a fair amount of intrigue, knowledge, stealth, socializing, and maybe some research. I'd think the first one or two could be things the players kind of stumble upon and foil, while the next few would be escalations as the leader gets frustrated with these meddlesome adventurers, and then at least one part set after the actual leader has been captured, killed, or exiled. I'd also like for this to NOT feature kobolds, undead or evil outsiders, as they will figure heavily into other parts of the campaign.
Any and all suggestions and help will be greatly appreciated!
There isnt enough information to really give you much in the way of ideas, since you already have some story line set up and arent playing with a standard world, everything is on you basically.
What's the everyone and the recurring villain lately?
With that being said, daughters of urgathoa make a nice built in "back from the dead" type villain.
As does a cult.
a witch's coven is perfect for this type of thing.
The cult of thugee types are followers of the coven.
The players mess with and are only aware of ONE member of the coven. they kill/imprison the one villain, and then this villain is sprung/risen by his/her compatriots. Also alternately avenged.... You mess with one of us, you mess with us ALL!
Cult members can also resurrect a fallen leader, who is to say the PCs got the WHOLE cult? They could have sleepers, like a terrorist cell, for this very purpose. Perhaps sleepers are members of government, someone they thought could be trusted?
Another concept could be a curse or possession. The players could think they destroyed "Muh-luhar-azul" only to realize they merely slew his mortal vessel, and he has instead taken control of another body and built up his following yet again.
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A drug is being spread around the city, which causes strange mutations. PC's first get involved when one of their NPC allies is burgled. A new gang of thieves are using the drug to have an edge. PCs put a stop to the thieves but a case of the weird concoction bearing the symbol of a noble house is found. PCs need to gather clues and information to find the gang's hideout in the mausoleum of an infamous criminal.
The PCs then can question the Watch, or the nobles. The nobles aren't likely to want to talk to scruffy adventurers, but the PCs might catch them at the Opera. The PCs will need to get tickets near the nobles in order to question them. When assassins try to kill the noble at the opera (also bearing strange mutation) the PCs will have to defend their contact. After the adventure the PC's learn that the nobles are renting a warehouse to an alchemist.
It's off to the docks, although the area is undergoing some rough times as a boat load of pirates are causing a ruckus. The pirates are looking for the alchemist that poisoned their captain (and they aren't looking to share). It's a three way battle between the pirates, the alchemist (and his minions) and the PCs in the streets of the city.
A drug is being spread around the city, which causes strange mutations. PC's first get involved when one of their NPC allies is burgled. A new gang of thieves are using the drug to have an edge. PCs put a stop to the thieves but a case of the weird concoction bearing the symbol of a noble house is found. PCs need to gather clues and information to find the gang's hideout in the mausoleum of an infamous criminal.
The PCs then can question the Watch, or the nobles. The nobles aren't likely to want to talk to scruffy adventurers, but the PCs might catch them at the Opera. The PCs will need to get tickets near the nobles in order to question them. When assassins try to kill the noble at the opera (also bearing strange mutation) the PCs will have to defend their contact. After the adventure the PC's learn that the nobles are renting a warehouse to an alchemist.
It's off to the docks, although the area is undergoing some rough times as a boat load of pirates are causing a ruckus. The pirates are looking for the alchemist that poisoned their captain (and they aren't looking to share). It's a three way battle between the pirates, the alchemist (and his minions) and the PCs in the streets of the city.
Thanks! I really like the sound of this!
As a side note, Pathfinder really isn;t set up for super low magic like that. Have you considered Iron Heroes instead?
I don't understand why folks want to take a High Fantasy/Magic RPG and play low magic in it, when there are so many low magic/low powered RPGs out there.
It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
There isnt enough information to really give you much in the way of ideas, since you already have some story line set up and arent playing with a standard world, everything is on you basically.
Well part of the point of this was that it DOESN'T tie into the rest of the story. I had a little bit of a framework of what I'd like in this regard, but really, it's pretty open.
Also, I specifically said I DIDN'T want any undead.
I appreciate the attempt, though.
As a side note, Pathfinder really isn;t set up for super low magic like that. Have you considered Iron Heroes instead?
I don't understand why folks want to take a High Fantasy/Magic RPG and play low magic in it, when there are so many low magic/low powered RPGs out there.
It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Off-topic much?
I'll indulge you, though:
1. My friends and I are all familiar with 3.5, since that is what we've played primarily, and haven't really played much else (Mutants and Masterminds, Star Wars Saga Edition, and d20 Modern are all built on the 3.5 rules set), and we've been playing with Pathfinder since it came out.
2. There's nothing in the system that inherently DOESN'T work in a low-level game.
3. I have DMed higher level games, and I'm honestly not a big fan of it.
4. I have no desire to go out and buy books to a new system, and none of my friends have any real desire to jump into another system, particularly those who have already sunk a lot of money into the materials for the systems we've been using for years.
As a side note, Pathfinder really isn;t set up for super low magic like that. Have you considered Iron Heroes instead?
I don't understand why folks want to take a High Fantasy/Magic RPG and play low magic in it, when there are so many low magic/low powered RPGs out there.
It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Off-topic much?
I'll indulge you, though:
1. My friends and I are all familiar with 3.5, since that is what we've played primarily, and haven't really played much else (Mutants and Masterminds, Star Wars Saga Edition, and d20 Modern are all built on the 3.5 rules set), and we've been playing with Pathfinder since it came out.2. There's nothing in the system that inherently DOESN'T work in a low-level game.
3. I have DMed higher level games, and I'm honestly not a big fan of it.
4. I have no desire to go out and buy books to a new system, and none of my friends have any real desire to jump into another system, particularly those who have already sunk a lot of money into the materials for the systems we've been using for years.
Iron Heroes is D20, by Monte Cook. Other than low magic, it *IS* the system you are used to.
You can buy a used copy for $10.
There are other D20 low magic systems out there.
There isnt enough information to really give you much in the way of ideas, since you already have some story line set up and arent playing with a standard world, everything is on you basically.
Well part of the point of this was that it DOESN'T tie into the rest of the story. I had a little bit of a framework of what I'd like in this regard, but really, it's pretty open.
Also, I specifically said I DIDN'T want any undead.
I appreciate the attempt, though.
the possession guy doesnt have to be undead... there are spells for that, or other magical means, hmmm then there's the changeling/doppleganger/simalcrum route... but that always feels cheesy, UNLESS you make the Doppleganger the bad guy, who poses as someone to make the PCs THINK that guy is a bad guy (and possibly he is, just not guilty of what the doppleganger has framed him for) then the doppleganger can do more stuff, that's eerily similar to what the party already quelled... yet this time he is posing as some other guy, so maybe the party doesnt catch on... they slay the SECOND guy (who also maybe deserves it, and the doppleganger chooses these types because they are easy to frame, they are already nefarious) So he keeps getting away with his stuff, and others get punished for it... around the third time there should be over whelming evidence SOMETHING is up, the MO is the same even tho the villains are all different (and dont seem to know each other), so what's the connection.....
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As a side note, Pathfinder really isn;t set up for super low magic like that. Have you considered Iron Heroes instead?
I don't understand why folks want to take a High Fantasy/Magic RPG and play low magic in it, when there are so many low magic/low powered RPGs out there.
It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Off-topic much?
I'll indulge you, though:
1. My friends and I are all familiar with 3.5, since that is what we've played primarily, and haven't really played much else (Mutants and Masterminds, Star Wars Saga Edition, and d20 Modern are all built on the 3.5 rules set), and we've been playing with Pathfinder since it came out.2. There's nothing in the system that inherently DOESN'T work in a low-level game.
3. I have DMed higher level games, and I'm honestly not a big fan of it.
4. I have no desire to go out and buy books to a new system, and none of my friends have any real desire to jump into another system, particularly those who have already sunk a lot of money into the materials for the systems we've been using for years.
Iron Heroes is D20, by Monte Cook. Other than low magic, it *IS* the system you are used to.
You can buy a used copy for $10.
There are other D20 low magic systems out there.
I'm a big fan of Iron Heroes, but the beauty of e6 is you can still be a sorcerer/wizard/alchemist etc and focus on the most exciting levels. Also it's troublesome to learn a new rules set and though its d20 based Iron Heroes has its own complexities and issues.
There isnt enough information to really give you much in the way of ideas, since you already have some story line set up and arent playing with a standard world, everything is on you basically.
Well part of the point of this was that it DOESN'T tie into the rest of the story. I had a little bit of a framework of what I'd like in this regard, but really, it's pretty open.
Also, I specifically said I DIDN'T want any undead.
I appreciate the attempt, though.
the possession guy doesnt have to be undead... there are spells for that, or other magical means, hmmm then there's the changeling/doppleganger/simalcrum route... but that always feels cheesy, UNLESS you make the Doppleganger the bad guy, who poses as someone to make the PCs THINK that guy is a bad guy (and possibly he is, just not guilty of what the doppleganger has framed him for) then the doppleganger can do more stuff, that's eerily similar to what the party already quelled... yet this time he is posing as some other guy, so maybe the party doesnt catch on... they slay the SECOND guy (who also maybe deserves it, and the doppleganger chooses these types because they are easy to frame, they are already nefarious) So he keeps getting away with his stuff, and others get punished for it... around the third time there should be over whelming evidence SOMETHING is up, the MO is the same even tho the villains are all different (and dont seem to know each other), so what's the connection.....
This is pretty good. I don't want to do a major doppelganger thing, as I did that in a game a few years ago, but an individual would work well I think. A plus is that this can work with DM_aka's suggestion.
Now I'm left with motivation...why is this guy peddling the drugs? Is it just money? Something else?
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I was thinking about that. Here is what I came up with the alchemist is an amoral scientist type who is trying to perfect a mutagen to transform himself from a mortal into a perfect outsider. To this end he is distilling angel blood and demon ichor to create the drug.
The drug is called Enlightenment, and grants one ability from either the Aasimar list and Tiefling list. The alchemist is selling the batches and recording results to find the perfect balance. So the thieves might have strangely demonic abilities, the assassins peculiarly angelic abilities and the pirates might have a few points of eidolon abilities. They might find the alchemist in an abandoned church or cathedral.
Essentially the factions get something (nifty abilities) and the alchemist gets something (precious research). Imagine a lab, nailed to one wall is an angel with tubes leading to beakers and on the other wall a demon snarling and shackled with cold iron. Also being drained of blood. (A cherub and a quasit ought a do it).
What outsider-y abilities would you think would make sense as drug effects? Bonus on Wis and Cha for angelic, Dex and Int for demonic?
I'd been looking at Zerk
The players could be walking along the quays when they see a deckhand on a recently docked ship suddenly lash out as his mates and then turn on the crowd of onlookers.
I really like the scene you describe of the alchemist's lab, but not really sure how I'd want to work up to that. I also liked Pendagast's doppelganger idea. [spoiler]I'd think maybe the doppelganger has been posing as a noble and funding the alchemist's research, while ensuring that the drugs get sold to the different factions. The PCs could see find something with the seal of the noble at a crime scene, putting them on his trail. If they confront the noble, he'll have no idea what they're talking about, because the doppelganger will actually not have taken his place. At a later date, maybe they see him making some suspicious deal far enough away that they can't get to him before he slips away, but close enough to recognize him.
Maybe enough evidence is found to get the noble imprisoned, or executed, but the dealings continue, now by some other public figure--maybe a cleric they have become friendly with. Thinking that perhaps they could get a clue as to what's been going on when they run across one version or another of the same person shortly after leaving them, or seeing them take off.
How do you catch a lone doppelganger in a major city, though? Set a trap for him? Ideas in case I think I might have to steer my players in that direction?
I figure, the adventure could develop somewhat as follows (each of these would occur between other adventures they are going on, and these should be shorter...one, maybe two sessions long each):
1) Players on docks see, fight and defeat drugged up worker; find dose of drug with strange markings. They can go have the stuff identified at a local apothecary or library or something, but the lead kind of dead ends.
2) A few weeks later, they observe some thieves at work in the marketplace, maybe they assassinate someone, and (I assume) give chase, or investigate, and find the same markings as they found on the drugs before. Maybe they find some of the same drugs. Extended investigation uncovers a small group of thieves/assassins that the players can route, but still no real idea where drugs are coming from, though they may believe they've stopped the distributors.
3) Some time later, drugs surface again, this time with different effect, but they find the same markings. Get waylaid by a band of thugs who seem to have been looking for them at the behest of someone. They gain a clue that points to the noble, but cannot gain entrance to see him, and head to a performance at the city theater/arena where the scene Dudemeister described occurs. Probably gain some additional evidence that this noble is the culprit and have him arrested.
4) Some time passes, drugs become a problem again, this time with really outlandish effects. A group of mercenaries, clearly with information on the PCs ambush them. Evidence finally leads them to the warehouse district (or maybe the Tannery, where the smells of alchemical experimentation would go unnoticed), and confront the mad alchemist. He will claim to have been put to work by some well-known cleric or oracle seeking to unlock the secrets to divine ascension and immortality, and the players will likely go investigate that person, who will similarly have no idea what's going on. Not sure where I want to go from here
5) Somehow, players finally figure out that someone has been posing as these influential individuals, but...how? And what do they do about it?
I'm really appreciating the ideas, folks. Keep 'em coming please! =)
There isnt enough information to really give you much in the way of ideas, since you already have some story line set up and arent playing with a standard world, everything is on you basically.
Well part of the point of this was that it DOESN'T tie into the rest of the story. I had a little bit of a framework of what I'd like in this regard, but really, it's pretty open.
Also, I specifically said I DIDN'T want any undead.
I appreciate the attempt, though.
the possession guy doesnt have to be undead... there are spells for that, or other magical means, hmmm then there's the changeling/doppleganger/simalcrum route... but that always feels cheesy, UNLESS you make the Doppleganger the bad guy, who poses as someone to make the PCs THINK that guy is a bad guy (and possibly he is, just not guilty of what the doppleganger has framed him for) then the doppleganger can do more stuff, that's eerily similar to what the party already quelled... yet this time he is posing as some other guy, so maybe the party doesnt catch on... they slay the SECOND guy (who also maybe deserves it, and the doppleganger chooses these types because they are easy to frame, they are already nefarious) So he keeps getting away with his stuff, and others get punished for it... around the third time there should be over whelming evidence SOMETHING is up, the MO is the same even tho the villains are all different (and dont seem to know each other), so what's the connection.....
This is pretty good. I don't want to do a major doppelganger thing, as I did that in a game a few years ago, but an individual would work well I think. A plus is that this can work with DM_aka's suggestion.
Now I'm left with motivation...why is this guy peddling the drugs? Is it just money? Something else?
Mind altering drugs, what if the villain is an alchemist, maybe there are several "levels" of the addiction, the highest level being mind controlled alchemical "zombies" they arent literally undead but the drug effect is so that they slowly lose their will save completely or maybe just toward suggestion, maybe his accomplice is a bard?
Anyway like any drug lord, it's not just money, it's power, control, who's REALLY the boss?
Maybe the bard could look like the bad guy initially, maybe the drugs aren't easily noticed at first, PCs go after track down the bard slay or capture, only to find the problem is getting worse... yet now the druggies down't actually have direction (the bard was giving subliminal messages to the druggies by playing at several well located street corners a day to disseminate the instructions)
So now there are mindless "drug zombies" all over the place causing random havoc and the 'epidiemic' is spreading... that would eventually lead the PCs to the Alchemist.
Maybe he could be a skein stealer like that alchemist from carrion crown? (cant remember which one vorstagg or Grine) maybe he even kills his former bard buddy before the PCs can question him and steal his skin! Later appearing AS the bard.... that could be a shocker.
The doppelganger simulacrum is a possibility as well, though it changes the focus from finding out WHO the person is to WHERE the person is.
ooo and i just thought, what about copy-cat killers?
Maybe the bad guy does stuff in such a manner to be deliberately dramatic in his evilness an evil bard like Hannibal Lectre leaves victims "displayed"
Maybe he could charm them like a vampire (maybe even dressed like one) killing them, and living their bodies displayed, drained of blood.
This is so dramatic, it spurs several copy cats, thugs running through the streets in bad dracula cloaks attacking people. Could drive the PCs nuts, thinking the whole time it's some kind of cult when the people are literally unrelated.
Perhaps a chase scene where they lose the real bad guy in a crowd where there are 3 or 4 other copy cats converging?
Why drain the blood? Blood is a secret ingredient to make the drug?
I think that would work for a more involved storyline--I want something substantive, but not something that's going to take over the focus of the campaign. Like I said in the first post, I want these to be shortish adventures that the players embark upon in between the ones they go on for the main story, which is broken up by weeks and even months.
Basically, the campaign starts off with items going missing around the city, a few people turning up dead, and the PCs are tasked with investigating. Eventually they discover kobolds mid-heist, and track them to the sewers where they wipe out the small band, maybe capture one or two.
A few weeks go by, and one night, a small ARMY of kobolds invades the city, causing havoc, setting buildings on fire, and killing folks. The players will be running around defending people, probably head into at least one burning building to rescue someone. Ultimately, they will either learn that the kobolds had been sent for a purpose, or will be tracking them out of the city. In both cases, they will eventually reach the kobold's lair in the mountains after a few days of traveling through the wilderness. The lair is fairly elaborate; at the end they will discover that the kobolds have been driven to the invasions by a youngish dragon that they view as a god. They can confront the dragon, but during the fight dwarves will break into the chamber and the dragon will flee. The dwarves will lend the players some aid, and help them chase down the dragon. When they finish here, they'll be invited to the nearby dwarven city to receive some accolades before heading back "home."
Some months go by, and the players hear about problems back in the dwarven city. They go to investigate, maybe to check on their friends, and discover that things have taken an odd turn--the dwarves have closed themselves off, refusing most visitors, ordering dwarves to travel to the nearby capital. Some have fled, and there's an air of something foul brewing. The king seems to be making odd decisions, and reports arise of a spreading madness. Eventually, the players are seriously threatened, being outsiders, but some of their former allies help them escape the city, though they are now far from home.
They spend some weeks trekking back to their home city with a couple of adventures along the way. Some time after they have returned, they will be sent along to the capital of the nation they're in, at which point the side adventure of the drugs, alchemist and impostor should be resolved since they will be spending some time (and having an adventure there) before really getting into the meat of what's going on with the dwarves, and that will eclipse in seriousness the drug storyline. They should be having small adventures along this path during each of the aforementioned down periods.
That leaves, say, 4 or 5 "pieces" to the recurring villain bit we're discussing in this thread with 1 at the beginning, 1 after the underground adventure, 1 after they return from the mountains, and 1 when they return from afar. So, that's 4 parts, where each of the parts can stretch out over a few weeks, or up to a couple of months for one or two of those.
With that in mind, the first part should be fairly short, cut and dry. The second can be a little more involved, and the third can be more complex, lasting for a bit longer, and should seem resolved when they head out next. The final part should last just a week or two I think, but be a little more frantic.
Umm...at the risk of ridicule beyond the ken of mortal man, what's an "E6" campaign?
It's a DnD game where your level is limited to 6th (meaning spell casters can't get spells better than say fireball) characters can continue to 'advance' with feats and skill points but their BAB/spell levels are limited.
In the immortal words of Penfold: "Crikey DM!" Thanks as always _aka_ for the assist. I don't know if that's for me, but I'm staying in this thread anyway b/cause if it gets more play I can ALWAYS use a good recurring villain.
Right now I'm working up a witch who's going to start pestering the party. I like the idea of recurring villains but not as main goals. The party's main goal/villain is a universal power of darkness corrupting mortals and driven by a fey eldest imprisoned w/in it; not something they can strive against just yet, but they'll combat her pawns and minions.
The witch then will be someone on the periphary of all this, like an opportunist cashing in on the distractions of the main plot. However I REALLY like the image of an angel and demon being bled dry in a warehouse or something!
So, I'm thinking
At other times, he takes up the guise of a performer, regaling crowds in taverns and on street corners with his impressive oratory skills (thinking he'll be a Bard 4/Master Spy 3 on top of the racial HD). The PCs will encounter him in this role a few times during their other activities, and may get a suspicious feeling about him.
In any case, he has become obsessed with divinity, the worlds beyond, and wishes to become transformed into an outsider: angel, demon, or devil, it makes no difference to him. Disguised as the noble, he commissions a mad alchemist to find a formula that will achieve this end, gives him some start-up capital, but insists that the alchemist use his other concoctions to gather the coin needed to fully fund his research and experiments--hence drugs on the streets in the beginning. He sells his drugs to a supplier petty crime lord in the slums who then disseminates them, selling some to the Thieves' Guild, some to sailors and dockworkers, and some to some third group perhaps.
Somewhere in here the PCs should begin to get suspicious about the noble. Maybe they confront the ACTUAL noble, and he appears to be completely ignorant of their accusations.
Once his research has progressed a bit, he starts combining the drugs with his experimental formulae, using the public already addicted to his wares as test subjects. Now, people are reporting very strange side effects, odd growths and abilities. Eventually the PCs will get to the source of these occurrences and will confront the alchemist. Evidence will be found pointing to the noble that the players have suspected for a while now, and they can once more confront him, this time with evidence.
Satisfied that he has been taken care of in some fashion (ideally in jail or some such), the PCs move on to other things, only to discover upon their return that things AREN'T settled--otherworldly creatures have been observed around the city, and some corpses have been found oddly warped, mutated, and resembling outsiders with claws, wings, tinting of the skin and eyes, tails, etc... This looks a lot like the experiments the alchemist was conducting, but he and his patron have been dealt with...
This time, posing as a high ranking cleric of one of the temples in the city, the doppelganger has been tricking other casters to perform rituals to summon outsiders, and then obtaining a bit of their blood, before turning them loose. Apparently, the concoction WORKS, but the blood originally used was too weak, or incompatible with humanoid anatomy, and he is hunting for the right creature's blood to use as a catalyst. Somewhere along the line here, the doppelganger has become a bit unhinged,which explains his getting a little sloppy with the summoned creatures and such. Now the players have to find the source of this new phenomenon and put a stop to it. Interviewing casters should eventually lead back to the high ranking cleric who can cast enough divine spells, and use all sorts of divine wands and scrolls, to pass himself off as actually being a cleric. The doppelganger has tricked some real clerics of a good deity into believing that his experiments will allow them to ascend to the divine plane and become paragons of their deity.
Thoughts?