People with low Charisma scores can be seen as heroes. All Charisma is about, really, is assertiveness. It doesn't necessarily apply to smell, or appearance. It's just about whether you have the guts to talk somebody down.
And I am not going to give up a superior weapon for a shiny one because I have a low Wisdom. I am going to do it because I have a bad Intelligence, maybe. Low Wisdom is not automatically Attention Deficit Disorder. I'm playing a barbarian elsewhere with a 6 Wisdom. He will take the best weapon available, not the shiniest one. Pretty things are no good for killing, after all.
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and that 6 Charisma??
you know everyone is just gonna come to your Aid looking worse then most ORCS. Would you help someone who's ugly as sin and smells of Feces in real life??Ugly people are not heroes, In the Masses eyes..regardless of their actions.
I have yet to see anyone prove to me where in the rulebook it says Charisma = Beauty and Low Charisma = Ugly and Unhygienic. It does mention appearance, in passing, but it does not state whether that is physical appearance or how you dress yourself, and I'm inclined towards the latter since clothing gives you bonuses on Charisma based skills.
Further, Appearance is but one of the 4 things that makes up Charisma, the other 3 being Personality, Personal Magnetism, and Ability to Lead.
None of that says "People with low Charisma are hated by everything and everyone including their own mothers."
People with low Charisma scores can be seen as heroes. All Charisma is about, really, is assertiveness. It doesn't necessarily apply to smell, or appearance. It's just about whether you have the guts to talk somebody down.
And I am not going to give up a superior weapon for a shiny one because I have a low Wisdom. I am going to do it because I have a bad Intelligence, maybe. Low Wisdom is not automatically Attention Deficit Disorder. I'm playing a barbarian elsewhere with a 6 Wisdom. He will take the best weapon available, not the shiniest one. Pretty things are no good for killing, after all.
No, charisma is not "just assertiveness".
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance. It is the most important ability for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to channel energy. For undead creatures, Charisma is a measure of their unnatural “lifeforce.” Every creature has a Charisma score. A character with a Charisma score of 0 is not able to exert himself in any way and is unconscious.
It is an all round measure of social ability.
With a 7 or less in charisma, you are talking about about a statistically significant difference from the median population. The 18.65% of the population who are most socially inept. We are talking about the people who stick in your mind because their rudeness, lack of social graces,and yes probably personal hygiene, are so poor that we remember them, and don't want to spend time with them.
and that 6 Charisma??
you know everyone is just gonna come to your Aid looking worse then most ORCS. Would you help someone who's ugly as sin and smells of Feces in real life??Ugly people are not heroes, In the Masses eyes..regardless of their actions.
I have yet to see anyone prove to me where in the rulebook it says Charisma = Beauty and Low Charisma = Ugly and Unhygienic. It does mention appearance, in passing, but it does not state whether that is physical appearance or how you dress yourself, and I'm inclined towards the latter since clothing gives you bonuses on Charisma based skills.
Further, Appearance is but one of the 4 things that makes up Charisma, the other 3 being Personality, Personal Magnetism, and Ability to Lead.
None of that says "People with low Charisma are hated by everything and everyone including their own mothers."
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
By raw, appearance is a function of Charisma.
'Hated' is a little stong, but low cha characters are exactly the sort of people who are probably mercilessly bullied, who probably have little success in forming close relationships, and who have get ignored in conversations.
Now it is only one part of charisma, and it is common practice for DM to allow some degree of freedom when it comes to the appearance element. however, while a character can as a result of that have low charisma and be relatively good looking, they should still be treated as being socially inept, both by the player and by the DM. Just as a low strength character can't carry loads of equipment, and low con characters get sick and hurt more often.
I covered that. Maybe your interpretation is that it is all realms of physical appearance, which is valid, but my interpretation is that it more refers to how well you dress yourself, the care you take in maintaining your appearance, your posture and bearing, etc. rather than straight physical attractiveness. Which, as I said, seems to be backed up by the Diplomacy increasing clothing and such.
The rules don't really clarify either way though, so someone using that as an argument for "Well low Cha characters will never be seen as heroes" is kind of off.
Hell, it's kind of off anyway. There are plenty of ugly heroes who are seen as heroes (though very few are female) by the people they saved.
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The effects of high or low stats on role play are deliberately left up to the player. You can have captain charming with a 10 or even 9 cha as long as he buys the right skills. Still that -1 or -2 on skills is coming from something. I let the player define exactly what trait(s) are causing the modifier. This is good for the player because it gives him flexibility over his role. And it is good for the GM because it is an excellent tool to get the players involved with their characters. In the case of captain charming maybe he pays his clothing no attention what so ever... It can be slightly off putting when a guy who dresses like a bum acts charming. But that is just one out of thousands of possible reasons. Let your player have some fun here.
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BARBARIAN AM INSULTED.
AM SUGGESTING THAT BECAUSE BARBARIAN AM DUMPING CHA AND LIKE MAYBE DUMPING PART OF INT (BARBARIAN NOT REMEMBER, MAYBE BECAUSE OF INT DUMP, MAYBE BECAUSE BARBARIAN SPEND MOST NIGHTS DRINKING OUT OF FLASK MADE OF CASTY SKULL) THAT BARBARIAN NOT ABLE GET DECENT PRICES ON MAGIC ITEMS AND TREATED LIKE MORON?
BARBARIAN DOUBLE DOG DARE ANY PERSON ANYWHERE AM GIVING BARBARIAN RAW DEAL. BARBARIAN KNOW PRICES. PRICES AM WISDOM, AND BARBARIAN NEVER DUMP WISDOM, AM PART OF PROFESSION (ENGINEER) AND BARBARIAN HAVE DEGREE. AM ABLE ENGINEER ENTIRE DEVICES/WEAPONS IN BRAIN, AM ABLE DETERMINE APPROXIMATE PRICE OF RAW MATERIALS.
THEN BARBARIAN USE MAGIC (NOT CASTY MAGIC, BETTER MAGIC. AM NUMBERS MAGIC): MULTIPLY BY TWO. BARBARIAN AWARE AM DIFFICULT CONCEPT, SOMETIMES BARBARIAN USE FINGERS.
THEN BARBARIAN USE MORE NOT CASTY BUT BETTER NUMBERS MAGIC: DETERMINE STRUCTURAL WEAKPOINT OF BUILDING, CASUALLY POINT OUT WITH LANCE THROUGH STRUCTURAL WEAKPOINT, USE LACK OF WEAKPOINT AS LEVERAGE IN CURRENT PRICING DEBATE AFTER SURVIVING CAVING BUILDING BY BEING AWESOME. GENERALLY GET ITEM FOR FREE AFTER BUILDING DROPPED ON PERSON TRYING CHEAT BARBARIAN.
UNRELATED NOTE, AGGRESSIVE NEGOTIATION TACTIC MAYBE PISS OFF IMPORTANT PEOPLE. AM WHY BARBARIAN NOT CURRENTLY ALLOWED LAND ANYWHERE IN WESTERN CHELIAX. BARBARIAN RECOMMEND SAVE FOR IMPORTANT ITEM, ALSO RECOMMEND MAKING SURE CAN CARRY OFF ALL STUFF SURVIVE FALLING BUILDING. (THIS NOT PROBLEM FOR BARBARIAN, BUT MAYBE PROBLEM FOR SQUISHY CASTY WITH 7 STRENGTH. SILLY CASTY, WHO DUMP STRENGTH, NOT THINK BE RECKONING FROM GM?)
No, charisma is not "just assertiveness".
Well, it kind of is. Everything else about Charisma? That can be supplemented by skills. I hate to keep bringing up the same example, but Fluttershy is a good example of low Charisma--very well-liked, and very intimidating when she wants to be, but otherwise a complete doormat. She's also implied to be pretty attractive, by pony standards. In other words, good Diplomacy and Intimidate. But skills and appearance do not mean a high Charisma. They are benefited by one, but they do not indicate one.
In addition, Charisma is not necessarily a way to be well-liked. I could make a half-orc barbarian with a 16 Charisma who is loud and obnoxious, and mostly gets his way because nobody wants to spend time on an unwinnable argument (sort of like Karkat from Homestuck, or Dan from Dan Vs). Nobody likes him, and he certainly ain't pretty, but people go along with what he wants.
Charisma's four aspects are not required. Somebody can be ugly with a high Charisma, and popular with a low Charisma. It's up to the roleplayer, not the anti-powergaming GM.
Also adorable.
Even more adorable when using the aforementioned Skill Focus (intimidate).