I'm a big fan of the Mobile Suit Gundam series, so I made an eidolon for a level 20 synthesist summoner as close to the gundam as possible.
The eidolon was designed using a 20th level human summoner who'd taken the Extra Evolution feat the maximum 4 times.
The beam rifle is simulated nicely by a linear breath weapon, the beam saber is represented by the brilliant longsword, and the gundam hammer by the flail. The sword, flail and shield are purchased by the summoner.
Gundam Eidolon
Huge Outsider
Speed: 30' Fly: 30' perfect
HP: 195 (20HD)
Str: 40
Dex: 18
Con: 22
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 11
AC: 42 = 10+7(shield)+4(Dex)+23(natural)-2(size)
BAB: +15
Cold Immunity
Fire Resistance 15
Fort: +15
Ref: +9
Will: +9
slam +28/+28 2d8+15 x2
+5 brilliant energy longsword +33/+28/+23 2d6+20 19-20 x2
+5 flail +33/+28/+23 2d6+20 x2
shield bash +28/+23/+18 1d6+7 x2
Beam Rifle (breath weapon) 60' line 20d6 electrical damage DC 26 Ref 1/day
Evolutions:
Huge
Martial Weapon Training
Breath Weapon
Magical Flight
No Breath
Cold Immunity
Fire Resistance
Slam
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This wouldn't work, because the eidolon has to be the same size as the summoner unless you used the greater aspect to increase the summoners size also.
I'm pretty sure the rule is just that you can't have an eidolon smaller than you. I've never seen any restrictions on larger eidolons.
I'm pretty sure the rule is just that you can't have an eidolon smaller than you. I've never seen any restrictions on larger eidolons.
This. Shouldn't be an issue.
Back on topic, I as HUGE Gundam fan I give you props for attempting this. However, let me give you some build criticism.
You don't need to go to level 20 with the Synthesist Summoner(SS). Your capstone Twin Eidolon (Su), doesn't really do much for the Synthesist except share equipment when you Split Forms (Su). Also the difference between level 19 & 20 for the Eidolon is 1 Pool point, 1 STR/Dex, and 2 points of Armor(not really so huge imo). Oh and 1 level 6 spell.
So I personally would recommended a Fighter dip. This nets you a combat feat, +1 BAB, & all the Martial Weapon Proficiency you need saving you the cost of 2(or 4 depending on how you did it) Evolution points(which can be spent to make up for the 2 armor you had). It will make you're split form a bit weaker but you'll be better off.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
8 Red Wizards, are you unable to comprehend the difference between, "at least the same size as," and "the same size as"?
Size is measurable. Large > medium is > small. Saying at least means if you're medium sized, the eidolon must be medium or larger.
*sigh*
Back on topic...
Check out Marid bloodline's Water's Fury. You can get it with Improved Eldritch Heritage feat. Could serve as the beam rifle, maybe?
Uh, 8 Red Wizards, you're providing evidence for our point. Maybe you should read the quote you posted. xD
The issue is still he can't have an eidolon larger than himself, because no where in there does it say you can't have an eidolon smaller than you it just says in plain letters the The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. because if you can have an eidolon bigger than you than you could have one smaller. So your Eidolon is already illegal unless your GM houserules and approves it.
The most you can do is accept it and say ok I'll make it and see if my DM lets me have it.
Last time I checked, "at least" meant "not less than". Says nothing about bigger eidolons.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Darth Grall made a good point, level 16-20 of synthesist isn't that hot.
Also noticed some math errors in the original build, HP were incorrect, etc.
Here's some crunch for 20 point build 15/5 synthesist/fighter, skills and summon monster class feature have been omitted for brevity:
Level 15/5 Synthesist/Fighter
HP: 159
Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 11
Cha: 16
BAB: +16
AC: 22= 10+9(armor)+2(Dex)+1(dodge)
Fort: +12
Ref: +8
Will: +9
Feats:
Extra Evolution x5
Dodge
Combat Reflexes
Mobility
Combat Patrol
Power Attack
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Combat Expertise
Stand Still
Bravery
Armor Training
Weapon Training (heavy blades)
Aspect
Spells:
0 level
Daze
Detect Magic
Guidance
Light
Mending
Resistance
1st level 6/day
Alarm
Compel Hostility
Daze Monster
Jury-Rig
Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon
Shield
2nd level 6/day
Blur
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Lesser Evolution Surge
Haste
Summon Eidolon
3rd level 6/day
Evolution Surge
Heroism
Rejuvenate Eidolon
Restore Eidolon
Stone Skin
4th level 4/day
Greater Evolution Surge
Hold Monster
Purified Calling
Mass Daze
5th level 3/day
Greater Heroism
Greater Rejuvenate Eidolon
Spell Turning
True Seeing
Gundam Eidolon
Huge Outsider
Speed: 30' Fly: 30' perfect
HP: 153 (12HD)
Str: 38
Dex: 16
Con: 22
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 11
AC: 37 = 10+7(shield)+3(Dex)+19(natural)-2(size)
BAB: +12
Fort: +14
Ref: +7
Will: +8
slam +27/+27 2d8+14 x2
+5 brilliant energy longsword +28/+23/+18 2d6+19 19-20 x2
+5 flail +28/+23/+18 2d6+19 x2
shield bash +23/+18/+13 1d6+6 x2
Beam Rifle (breath weapon) 60' line 12d6 electrical damage DC 22 Ref 3/day
Evolutions:
Huge
Breath Weapon 3/day
Magical Flight
No Breath
Slam
Improved Evasion
Devotion
Gundam Eidolon
Huge Outsider
Speed: 30' Fly: 30' perfect
HP: 159(153 temporary)
Str: 38
Dex: 16
Con: 22
Int: 14
Wis: 11
Cha: 16
AC: 38 = 10+7(shield)+3(Dex)+1(dodge)+19(natural)-2(size)
BAB: +12
Fort: +18
Ref: +11
Will: +12
slam +27/+27 2d8+14 x2
+5 brilliant energy longsword +33/+28/+23 2d6+20 19-20 x2
+5 flail +32/+27/+22 2d6+19 x2
shield bash +27/+22/+18 1d6+6 x2
Beam Rifle (breath weapon) 60' line 12d6 electrical damage DC 22 Ref 3/day
Evolutions:
Huge
Breath Weapon 3/day
Magical Flight
No Breath
Slam
Improved Evasion
Devotion
Feats:
Extra Evolution x5
Dodge
Combat Reflexes
Mobility
Combat Patrol
Power Attack
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Combat Expertise
Stand Still
Bravery
Armor Training
Weapon Training (heavy blades)
Aspect
Spells:
0 level
Daze
Detect Magic
Guidance
Light
Mending
Resistance
1st level 6/day
Alarm
Compel Hostility
Daze Monster
Jury-Rig
Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon
Shield
2nd level 6/day
Blur
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Lesser Evolution Surge
Haste
Summon Eidolon
3rd level 6/day
Evolution Surge
Heroism
Rejuvenate Eidolon
Restore Eidolon
Stone Skin
4th level 4/day
Greater Evolution Surge
Hold Monster
Purified Calling
Mass Daze
5th level 3/day
Greater Heroism
Greater Rejuvenate Eidolon
Spell Turning
True Seeing
As for house rules, you now have a gundam in a fantasy rpg, a friendly GM is assumed.
*edit: forgot to add Weapon Training and Dodge to combined stats*
The issue is still he can't have an eidolon larger than himself, because no where in there does it say you can't have an eidolon smaller than you it just says in plain letters the The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. because if you can have an eidolon bigger than you than you could have one smaller. So your Eidolon is already illegal unless your GM houserules and approves it.
The most you can do is accept it and say ok I'll make it and see if my DM lets me have it.
"At least" means a minimum, meaning a human's eidolon has to be at least medium for the feature to work, and that a gnome's eidolon has to be at least small for the feature to work.
A synthesist with a huge eidolon is completely legal.
If you guys are looking for houserules, how about adding an evolution that grants exotic weapon proficiency, so it could get firearms instead of just a breath weapon ?
I also am a huge gundam fan, and suport this venture!
Only comment i have after that is; if you only have 20 point buy, nerf your physical stats, and pump mental stats: i.e. your Eidolon will take care of the physical stuff.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Firearms would get prohibitively expensive, although I do believe there was a bandoleer from UE that gave infinite ammo(it's in the shape of an infinity symbol ;) The breath weapon works for the Gundam Wing style beam rifle that was more a wave motion gun than a rifle. Yes, I have given this too much thought, why do you ask?
Sowde:
Nerfing the physical stats isn't a good idea, as nothing in the synthesist description lets you use the eidolon's stats to qualify for feats, and the eidolon itself has no feats, so you need at least Str and Dex 13 to fight effectively.
On a side note now you got me thinkin of The Guyver suit...
If you guys are looking for houserules, how about adding an evolution that grants exotic weapon proficiency, so it could get firearms instead of just a breath weapon ?
Just take Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.
On a related note, Half-Elf is the best summoner race and they're pretty close to human. Amuro is a "special human" anyway, a newtype. So...be Half-Elf? Can get EWP feat as a racial variant.
Sowde:
Nerfing the physical stats isn't a good idea, as nothing in the synthesist description lets you use the eidolon's stats to qualify for feats, and the eidolon itself has no feats, so you need at least Str and Dex 13 to fight effectively.
Actually SKR commented that the Synthesist could use the boosted stats to qualify for feats, but they wouldn't work while out of the suit. I'd link you directly but I hate having to sift through the "One Summoner Thread to Rule the All".
If you guys are looking for houserules, how about adding an evolution that grants exotic weapon proficiency, so it could get firearms instead of just a breath weapon ?Just take Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.
Oh... right... totally forgot about that ^^
Ok, eidolon stats count for feats, but a huge eidolon is a liability anywhere the hallways are less than 10' wide. I'd prefer to have access to the feats anytime, but I'm not going to say that's how you need to do it.
Half-elf is a great idea, their favored class for summoner is awesome and they get that one and one for the fighter levels, too.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This thread made me happy
Sadly, I have nothing to add, other then;
A) I love it, and
B) BUMP!
In the latest build that's posted, I changed it to 15 summoner/5 fighter for that reason.
Split Eidolon... Where what now?
My DM would not let me play a Summoner (basically because of all the problems and questions the Eidolon poses... just look at the Pathfinder forums here).. and also because he feels the all the Summoned monsters slow down gameplay. I agree somewhat of his assessment.
With that said I love the Gundam Wing series (1995?). Also I enjoy the Summoner threads, like this one.
FYI.. I did get to play a Druid.. which I am still playing from level 1(just got to level 8!) and I can wildshape and summon animal or Elemental critters... so it was a nice trade off.
Just imagine using Twin Eidolon at level 20 and than Split Eidolon for a 3 Eidolon smackdown.
While that is a really neat idea, and I almost thought it worked when I looked it up, sadly it does not.
Heres why. The problem is that there is only 2 of you and nether ability actually creates a third person. Twin eidolon allows you to take the shape of your eidolon, but there is still you and the eidolon. Split eidolon allows you to separate from your eidolon and assume its shape, but there is still only you and your eidolon.If you tried to do both at the same time, you would split, then assume the form of your eidolon, you still only have the 2 of you. Pity as I thought that woulda been really interesting.
the Summoners don't slow down gameplay, and there aren't really any problems for them anymore either it's all FAQ'ed now.
While I agree that most has been FAQ'ed by now, I dont quite have the same faith in Piazos ability to get EVERYTHING. With feats and abilities like racial heritage and leadership, there is always going to be something obscure that needs answers. And now that UE is out, I am sure more will crop up :D Personally I quite enjoy trying to find things that break the system >XD
As for the summoner slowing down gameplay? That has to be seen case by case for everyones table. A master summoner going nova can slow down combat even if he is really good and quick simply due to volume. A veteran summoner can probably complete his turn faster than a fighter, but a novice can REALLY slow gameplay down.Edit: I feel like I am tearing down 8 Red Wizards posts, and I am sorry as that was not my intent, so I hope that you dont see it that way D:
I just see it as a great learning chance and I love learning more about pathfinder! Currently I do not know much about the summoner. Classes I have mastered (term used loosely) is the barbarian, alchemist, fighter and horizon walker. Classes I am attempting to master, Druid, paladin, ranger, gunslinger, cavalier and mammoth rider. (as you can see, I dont really like spellcasters :P)
@d'Eon
I've read your statblock, and I saw the following mistakes:
- the weapons have 1 die lower in damage; a huge longsword and flail would deal 3d6 and a shield bash would deal 1d8.
Aside from that, looks pretty solid ^^
- the weapons have 1 die lower in damage; a huge longsword and flail would deal 3d6 and a shield bash would deal 1d8.
You sure? 1d8 medium => 1d10 large => 2d6 huge. If it is 3d6, that would be icing on the cake.
- the weapons have 1 die lower in damage; a huge longsword and flail would deal 3d6 and a shield bash would deal 1d8.You sure? 1d8 medium => 1d10 large => 2d6 huge. If it is 3d6, that would be icing on the cake.
Yup I'm sure. 1d10 is used only to decrease from 2d6. 1d8 increase to 2d6, than 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, etc... d8 and d10 aren't used anymore to increase damage.
The original gundam actually couldn't fly, but I don't object to its addition; enough later ones can.
You're right, how did I forget that. It could jump high enough to melee flyers, though. Hey, look, I solved that thread, fighters need gundams. Then again the original didn't have the super killer beam rifle, that was a later addition as well.
@JiCi: You're right, it is 3d6. I haven't had to mess with bigger weapons in Pathfinder.
Also, 8 Red Wizards mentioned the BAB being lower in eidolon form. I don't have a problem with that, actually. You're 2 size categories bigger than a fighter, with Str 38. Only getting 3 attacks isn't a problem to me.
I decided a 5 level dip in fighter would be worth the loss of evolution points. I saved 4 on weapon proficiencies, yes the eidolon itself cannot use the weapons, but synthesist eidolons don't exist independantly. The 3 bonus feats from fighter also let me take advantage of having 15' reach.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On a side note now you got me thinkin of The Guyver suit...doing that in PFS right now
Ummm (drool...) start another thread and show how you built it!
Ok, eidolon stats count for feats, but a huge eidolon is a liability anywhere the hallways are less than 10' wide.
Well, you're not gonna be needing a Gundam inside of a 10' wide hallway. If you're gonna be in a Gundam, you're gonna be on the outside of the structure fighting off the dragon that changes you inside or the building's "guard dog".
Now... if only a group of 5 Synthesis Summoners could combine their Eidolons, we can create the Megazord.
"Now... if only a group of 5 Synthesis Summoners could combine their Eidolons, we can create the Megazord."
Heavily refluff the Battlemind Link spell?
Voltron is still cooler.
|
I'd still do a 1 maybe 2 level dip into fighter 5 levels seems like to much since the level 20 Summoner ability wouldn't be worth using in for a Synthesist. I would also ask your DM if he would let you use your character BAB for your guy if you multiclass.
You wouldnt have to because its already been stated that MUCH like a monks flurry your BAB is always the sum of you classes, the only difference is that effectively your summoner levels switch to your Eidolons Bab and then anything else adds your bab on top of that, Therefore a Synth 12/ Fighter 8 would have a 17 Bab while fused or not
Am I a bad person because I read that as Gangnam Eidolon?