Kyton Bloodline Help


Homebrew and House Rules


I'm about to start a campaign, and in my world drow worship kytons. It's about how their curse causes pain and susceptibility to sunlight, leading them to turn to the kytons as allies instead of demons.

So, I need a good kyton bloodline. While shadow or infernal could feasibly work, I don't think either of them really fits, so I need some assistance creating a source of sorcerous might derived especially from the masochistic outsiders that live in the plane of shadow.

I've got some general ideas, but nothing too specific. The arcana needs to be something related to causing pain. I'm thinking nonlethal damage added to just about every spell. For spells, things like interrogate, eyebite, symbol of pain, torturous transformation, and any other spells with the pain descriptor, and maybe delay pain, should work. For the first level power, I want something more unique than a variant touch or ranged touch attack, but still 3+Cha uses per day. Feats will include improved initiative and lightning reflexes, maybe blind-fight. And the class skill will be heal or knowledge (planes).

So, who can help? Any ideas? Anything in my requests that seems like it doesn't fit?


For the power, how about staggering them with a painful touch, copying the dani power from the Repose domain?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

New blurb here
Class Skill: Heal.
Bonus Spells: infernal healing (3rd), delay pain (5th), excruciating deformation (7th), shadow barbs (9th), summon monster VI (1d3 kytons only) (11th), transformation (13th), (15th), (17th), (19th).
Bonus Feats:
Bloodline Arcana: You are proficient with spiked chains. Your sorcerer level counts as fighter levels for the purpose of feats that apply to the spiked chain.
Bloodline Powers: The quest for bodily apotheosis is in your blood and flesh. Every day is another step in the long march toward absolute perfection.

Unnerving Glance (Sp): You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Kyton Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist cold 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against poison and effects with the pain descriptor. At 9th level, your resistance to cold increases to 10 and your bonus on poison and pain saving throws increases to +4.

It Won’t Die (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Constitution. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.

15th (Su): (Read below)

Kyton Apotheosis (Su): (Read Below)

It needs some more work. The 15th Level ability was to be Black Tentacles with additional damage (think instead of actual black tentacles, spiked chains bursting from the ground). For 20th Level, we were thinking of coming up a list abilities that the Sorcerer could pick from, sorta performing Kyton surgery on themselves. The Unnerving glance ability should be on the level of the Augur Kyton or maybe a little bit stronger. Still need to pick some of the higher level spells. For bonus feats add stuff to make them better with the Spiked Chain or such. Repost what you make, I'll be curious.


The unnerving glance should also give immunity to all unnerving glances.
The poison resistance doesn't make sense. Instead, give proficiency in spiked chain there and allow feats for it equal to 1/2 sorcerer level as fighter level. Keep the cold and pain resistance.
For the arcana, what do you think of this:
All spells you cast that target an enemy, whether they deal damage or not, deal 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per pell level.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

New blurb here
Class Skill: Heal.
Bonus Spells: infernal healing (3rd), delay pain (5th), excruciating deformation (7th), shadow barbs (9th), summon monster VI (1d3 kytons only) (11th), transformation (13th), (15th), (17th), (19th).
Bonus Feats:
Bloodline Arcana: You are proficient with spiked chains. Your sorcerer level counts as fighter levels for the purpose of feats that apply to the spiked chain.

You gain the transformation spell as part of your bloodline spells, this and the arcana will eventually help make the sorcerer a competent force in melee especially if you work towards a str boosting bloodline with eldritch heritage. The 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per spell level is a bit much with the average damage of a 9th level spell is 22.5 which is better then the orc bloodline and the average damage will generally be higher then your level (6th level caster for 3d4 which averages 7.5 damage, 8th level caster for 4d4 averages around 10 points, so on.), which has 1 point per dice of damage the spell normally does. Also, non-lethal is only semi less dangerous in that the enemies MIGHT be immune, but if they aren't Non-lethal damage is just as good as regular damage against most enemies.

Bloodline Powers: The quest for bodily apotheosis is in your blood and flesh. Every day is another step in the long march toward absolute perfection.

Unnerving Glance (Sp):At 1st level, the sorcerer's merest glance can inspire terror in your foes. Target makes a will save, if they fail they are shaken for 1d3 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

I'm a bit uncertain about giving the sorcerer immunity to unnerving glance right at level 1, maybe at a higher level?

Kyton Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist cold 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against fear and effects with the pain descriptor. At 9th level, your resistance to cold increases to 10 and your bonus on your saving throws increases to +4.

My friends says it wasn't meant be poison and was apparently meant to be death effects. I think fear effects is the better choice.

It Won’t Die (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Constitution. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.

15th (Su):

Kyton's Apotheosis (Su): At 20th level, sorcerer completes his apotheosis, completing horrific surgery getting him ever closer to his kyton progenitors. You gain immunity to cold, fear effects, and pain effects. In addition, you can gain one ability from this chart (of course not complete).

Also I need someone to eventually clean up the syntax of the language. Also, don't think I'm hostile to your ideas but I just simply think that making this bloodline like the orc bloodline (A damage focused sorcerer with a bit of a focus on melee combat with spiked chains)


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pain-taste r

This class is PERFECT for Kyton worshipers. If it don't work just look up PAIN TASTER.


I agree about fear effects over poison or death effects, and then that would apply to Unnerving Glance.

I really don't think the 1d4 nonlethal per spell level is an issue, and we'll compare with the orc bloodline to see why.

Why:
Orcs get +1 damage per die rolled. So, when you first obtain a spell that deals 1dx per caster level, it will deal a little less damage on average than the nonlethal damage from the kyton bloodline. But, it applies against all enemies. The kyton damage will not apply against undead or a variety of other specific enemies. As you caster level scales, the orc bloodline deals more damage and quickly overtakes the kyton bloodline. It also doesn't suffer the issue of nonlethal damage.The kyton bloodline doesn't scale with caster level. A first level kyton spell at caster level 5, where first levels usually max out, will always deal 1d4 extra damage, while the same orc spell will deal 5 extra damage. With the extra 1d4 per spell level, you're actually dealing less damage that affects fewer enemies. Now, the distinction I'm thinking to even it out is that it will add damage to spells that don't normally deal damage. This could be tough to balance. Maybe spells that don't deal damage get +1 nonlethal damage per spell level? I think it's necessary to have the arcana be something related to pain. That's everything kytons are about, and right now they have nothing pain related outside the bonus spells.

TL;DR: Kyton arcana actually deals less damage to a smaller group of enemies than orc arcana.

Is this really fitting as a melee bloodline? Kytons don't strike me as melee powerhouses. I think more a debuffing/control bloodline is appropriate.
Here's what I'm thinking for spells: Interrogation (3rd), delay pain (5th), excrutiating deformation (7th), retribution (9th), pain strike, mass (11th), eyebite (13th), shadow conjuration, greater (15th), summon monster VIII (1 interlocutor kyton only)(17th), transmute blood to acid (19th)
And bonus feats: Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Merciful Spell, Sickening Spell, Skill Focus (Heal), Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)


Arcanemuses wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pain-taste r

This class is PERFECT for Kyton worshipers. If it don't work just look up PAIN TASTER.

Yeah, I'm using this for sure. But not for the sorcerers. For the warriors.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well how 'bout this: I wasn't throwing out your idea but we do have more design space beyond what is pictured here. Both of our ideas can work and we infact can have our cake as well.

Mechanically speaking... Wildblooded template. Which is to say that both the idea of a spell focused kyton bloodline and a melee focused Kyton bloodline can infact coexist... that being said I have gone through the stat blocks for reference:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/kyton

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/kyton/kyton-ere mite
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/kyton/kyton
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/kyton/kyton-int erlocutor
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/kyton/kyton-aug ur

And I must say that even the Kyton Eremite, with it's spell like abilities definitely has a huge melee focus what with eviscerate and pain and graft flesh abilities. Heck the Interlocuter has 1 offensive spell-like ability (Bleed) and that's it. the Evangelist (your basic Kyton and the one most likely to have children) has NO spell-like abilities. ALSO I was thinking their 7th level bonus spell should be Regenerate.

EDIT: Not sure why spaces are showing up in the URLs and their doesn't seem to be much I can do about it.


Ok, so the Wildblooded kyton is melee focused, and the standard is the debuff/controller.

I definitely agree about regenerate as a bonus spell. I had that in mind very early on but I forgot about it. Shadow Conjuration was a reluctant choice anyways.

Here's what I've got so far:

Your magical lineage traces back to the sadistic outsiders known as kytons. One of your ancestors was the victim of kyton torture, or perhaps had kyton body parts grafted onto them in some sick experiment. Whatever it was, you find a certain pleasure in pain and your powers reflect a growth towards torturous perfection.
Class Skill: Heal
Bonus Spells: Interrogation (3rd), delay pain (5th), excrutiating deformation (7th), retribution (9th), pain strike, mass (11th), eyebite (13th), regeneration (15th), summon monster VIII (1 interlocutor kyton only)(17th), transmute blood to acid (19th)
Bonus Feats Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Merciful Spell, Sickening Spell, Skill Focus (Heal), Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)
Bloodline Arcana: Every time you cast a damaging spell, all affected creatures take an additional 1d4 nonlethal damage per spell level. Whenever you cast a non-damaging spell, hostile targets take 1d4 nonlethal damage per 2 spell levels, rounded down. These count as damage-dealing spells for the purpose of metamagic feats or anything else.
This arcana has a few aspects behind it. First, it's very flavorful. Pain usually equals nonlethal damage, so that's obvious. Mechanically, it means you can make a decent blaster, or a good controller/debuffer that can dish out a little extra damage. And it allows you to use Sickening Spell with all of your control/debuffs.
Wildblooded Arcana:For this I'm considering straight-up stealing the Martyred bloodline's arcana, or doing something very similar. I'm moving the chain mastery to the first level power, because it simply isn't an arcana. Arcanas are about spells.
Bloodline Powers:
Unnerving Gaze(Su):At 1st level, you gain the unsettlingly calm gaze of the kytons.You may make a gaze attack against any target within thirty feet that causes them to become shaken for 1d3 rounds. The target receives a Will save to ignore the effects of your gaze. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Wildblooded: Chain Mastery (Ex): You gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain) as a bonus feat. You can qualify for any feats related to this weapon as a fighter of 1/2 your sorcerer level. This stacks with any levels in fighter you may have.
Kyton Resistances (Ex): You gain resistance to the kyton lifestyle of pain, terror, and darkness. At 3rd level, you gain resist cold 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against fear and effects with the pain descriptor. At 9th level, your resistance to cold increases to 10 and your bonus on your saving throws increases to +4.
Tortured Body (Ex): Your constant self-mutilation has toughened your physical body far past its natural state. At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Constitution. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.
Steal Flesh (Su): You begin to master the kyton art of stealing the body parts of enemies. As a full-round action, you may make a melee touch attack against an enemy. This can be done unarmed, in which case it does not provoke an attack of opportunity, or with a spiked chain. If you succeed on your attack roll, you may deal 4 points of ability damage to any of the opponent's ability scores. You then gain a +4 bonus to the same ability score that you damaged on your target. This bonus lasts for 10 minutes before the stolen part(s) fall off of your body. You may use this ability How many uses per day do you think is good for this? Also, should the numbers be adjusted?
Kyton Apotheosis: At 20th level, sorcerer completes his apotheosis, completing horrific surgery getting him ever closer to his kyton progenitors. You gain immunity to cold, fear effects, and pain effects. In addition, you can gain one ability from the following chart:
  • A permananent +2 to any ability score.
  • The ability to see perfectly in darkness, even magical darkness.
  • A permanent flight speed of 60 ft. with good maneuverability.
  • A +30 ft bonus to your base speed.
  • A +some number increase to either your natural armor or your dodge bonus to armor class.
And maybe two or three more of these, too.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I was just about to give them constitution casting ala the orc scarred witch doctor archetype from advanced races.... then I thought better of it.

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My own rendition.

Spoiler:

Kyton Bloodline
Torment is in your blood. At some point in the past, a kyton left a tainted scar in your family’s bloodline. For you this manifests through your desire to experience extreme pain, both giving and taking. Perhaps you exalt in these twisted desires or perhaps you take great shame in them. Whatever the case, you’re forever tied to the pain and pleasure of ruined flesh.
Class Skill: Heal.

Bonus Spells: infernal healing (I like this over interrogate as sure kytons sometimes torture people for information but they tend to just do so more for the pleasure while this spell mimics their regeneration) (3rd), delay pain (5th), excruciating deformation (7th), shadow barbs (Retribution feels to much like "I'll get you back for what you did to me" which really isn't kytons' style as much as they tend to revel in the even their own suffering while this has the idea of spiked chain and torment for both the enemies and the sorcerer all in one spell) (9th), pain strike, mass(11th), eyebite (13th), regenerate (15th), summon monster VIII (1 Interlocutor Kyton only) (17th), transmute blood to acid(19th).

Bonus Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Improved Initiative, Great Fortitude (I know almost all Kyton's get Lightning Reflex but I feel this is truly a feat the better represents them then Lightning Reflexes), Iron Will, Merciful Spell, Sickening Spell, Skill Focus (Heal), Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain)

Bloodline Arcana: Every time you cast a damaging spell, all affected creatures take an additional 1d4 nonlethal damage per spell level. Whenever you cast a non-damaging spell, hostile targets take 1d4 nonlethal damage per 2 spell levels, rounded down. These count as damage-dealing spells for the purpose of metamagic feats or anything else.

Bloodline Powers: The quest for bodily apotheosis is in your blood and flesh. Every day is another step in the long march toward absolute perfection.

Unnerving Glance (Su): At 1st level, you can cause your visage to take on that of a enemy’s lost loved one or hated foe. As a standard action you can make an unnerving glance at a single target within 30 feet who must make a Will save or be shaken for 1 round plus 1 round per 5 levels. A target who is blindfolded or averting his eyes is protected in the same manner as other gaze attacks. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Kyton Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist cold 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against poison and effects with the pain descriptor. At 9th level, your resistance to cold increases to 10 and your bonus on poison and pain saving throws increases to +4.

Kyton Flesh (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Constitution. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.

Debilitating Chains(Sp): At 15th level, once per day you can call forth grasping spiked chains from the ground. This power functions as black tentacles except it’s Strength bonus is +6, modifying both the spells CMD and damage dealt. In addition creatures dealt damage from this spell are sickened for the duration of the spell. You are unaffected by this effect. This effect uses your sorcerer level as the caster level. At 20th level, you can use this ability twice per day.

Kyton Apotheosis (Su): At 20th level, you undergo a horrific surgical process, bringing your body ever closer to the perfection sought by Kytons. You gain immunity to cold, fear effects, and pain effects.. You also gain one ability from the Kyton Apotheosis table (see below).

  • A permanent +2 to any ability score.
  • The ability to see perfectly in darkness, even magical darkness.
  • A permanent flight speed of 60 ft. with good maneuverability.
  • A +30 ft bonus to your base speed.
  • A +4 increase to your natural armor bonus to armor class

I had another idea for this list but I'm having a hard time remembering it. I'll post any other ideas that come to me in future posts

Enchained
More so than other kyton blooded sorcerers, you prefer the visceral feel of your chain cutting through your victims.

Associated Bloodline: Kyton.

Bloodline Arcana: You gain the Spellstrike class feature (see magus for more details). You can use this feature only while wielding a spiked chain.

Bloodline Powers: Your chains entangle and warp the flesh.

Master of Chains (Ex): At 1st level you gain Exotic Weapon Profiency (Spiked Chain) as a bonus feat. You qualify for any feats related to this weapon as a fighter equal to your sorcerer level. This ability replaces Unnerving Glance. (I know it seems like a bit much but it's not as though the sorcerer is getting to many bonus feats to help them in this regard but this lets them get critical mastery and stack critical feats from Ultimate Magic as well as Greater Weapon Specialization. If we're to promote melee attacking from a sorcerer, we should promote melee attacking with some measure of weapon mastery.)

Steal Flesh (Su): At 15th level, you begin to master the kyton art of stealing the body parts of enemies. As a standard action, you may make a melee touch attack against an enemy. You can use this with your Spellstrike feature. If you succeed on your attack roll, you may deal 4 points of ability damage to any one of the opponent's physical ability scores. You then gain a +4 bonus to the same ability score that you damaged on your target. This bonus lasts for 1 minute and you can only have one such effect on yourself. If you use this ability again while a previous bonus remains, the previous bonus ends immediately (though any ability damage dealt remains) and the new bonus begins If you use this ability again You may use this ability twice per day and once more per day for every level after 15th. This ability replace Debilitating Chains.


I agree with pretty much every choice you've made. I'd been torn between Lighning Reflexes and Great Fortitude myself. Spellstrike is a super cool arcana for the Enchained, definitely. Shadow Barbs is the perfect spell for this, especially the wildblooded. It does seem strange to me that enchained loses Debilitating Chains for Steal Flesh. If they're obsessed with chains, why do they lose a chain-focused power? It certainly suits them better mechanically, but it's definitely counter-intuitive frm a fluff perpective. Everything else is gold, though.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

DUH!!! My idea for the Kyton Apotheosis option was a Regeneration rate! I'm not sure the number though my gut instinct is Regeneration 10 (Good Weapons and Spells, Silver Weapons).


Regeneration in addition to cold, pain, and fear immunity?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

And yeah losing Debilitating Chains for Steal Flesh is a tough one because you do ultimately have to lose something even if you do want both of them. The way I see it is fluff wise they like to get into the thick of things more so and give up the controlling of chains from afar to master their own personal use of chains. I might be modifying the Spellstrike bonus to give them a bonus to attack rolls when they use Spellstrike. Something like:

At 5th level, you get a +1 bonus to hit when using spellstrike, this increases by 1 at 10th and every 5 levels after.

The main problem is while you can steal flesh while under the transformation spell, you can't use the other aspects of Spellstrike. This bonus does a little bit to help negate that problem by making it so you can spellstrike a bit better outside of transformation. Another way to do it is just say that they add the level of spell they are spellstriking with but I don't know for certain on that one.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No, Regeneration as one of the options you can choose from.

EDIT: Commas are awesome


Maybe add half the level, rounded up? Just make it part of the arcana, and that way you don't have a scaling arcana, because that never happens.

And regeneration 10 seems way way better than any of those options on the apotheosis table, so that needs to be evened out one way or another. Maybe just regeneration 5 and a slight bump to all the others?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While do agree Regen 10 might be a bit to much, I think that Regen 3 or 5 should be about right in comparison to the other options.

Also Celestial, Abyssal, and Starsoul Bloodlines have scaling with class level bloodlines. So does Bedrock and uh I guess the Sylvan bloodline(?) with its animal companion.


Not trying to pee in anyone's cheerios - far from it. I really like this idea (i.e. a Kyton Bloodline). That said...

I really wouldn't give them regeneration of any sort. I think a scaling fast healing (Fast Healing 1, Fast Healing 3, Fast Healing 5) would be fine, but definitely not regeneration.

Fast Healing vs. Regeneration.

Example:
Kyton Flesh (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Constitution. Your resilience continues to increase with your power; you gain Fast Healing 1 at 13th level, and Fast Healing 3 at 17th level.

Then add Fast Healing 5 to the Kyton Apotheosis as an option.


I think at level 20, regeneration is ok.
And you're right about the scaling bllodlines for the summoning ones that give DR. I forgot about those. Either way, 1/2 spell to hit with spellstrike?

EDIT: Potential issue with giving spellstrike as an arcanae! While it probably doesn't matter for our purposes, if this were a published paizo bloodline, it would be very abusable. Arcanas work with all spells, not just sorcerer spells. Hence the crossblooded dips. So, this allows anyone to dip into sorcerer and get spellstrike with all their spells, something a magus can't even do until level 6 and then he needs to take a specific arcana to do that. I don't know if we really need to change it, cause it's so cool, but it's something to be aware of.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Um Da'ath. You can knock a creature with regeneration out and then suffocate it as it can not heal damage dealt to it through suffocation or drowning it thus it would die or atleast stay at -1 and dying forever. Strange Paradox that one... Kinda like the rules not saying anything about not being able to do stuff while dead. As is, the Lore Oracle gets wish once per day without material cost and this ability is hardly comparable.

EDIT: BTW my recommendation would to carry around a few empty sacks and some heavy duty twine to try that bag really really tight. Or a lot of create water

And thank you Jack for letting me know about that. I will have to think on this.


xevious573 wrote:
Um Da'ath. You can knock a creature with regeneration out and then suffocate it as it can not heal damage dealt to it through suffocation or drowning it thus it would die or atleast stay at -1 and dying forever.

I'm familiar with the rules, which is why I linked them to provide a comparison we could easily get to for quick reference.

It has been my experience that PCs gaining the Regenerate monster ability (and the equivalent in running previous editions back to 1st ed AD&D - yes, I'm old) is problematic at best.

xevious573 wrote:
Strange Paradox that one... Kinda like the rules not saying anything about not being able to do stuff while dead.

I think it's an "assumed" consequence as part of being dead. Afterall, we can only decay normally unless magically preserved or by being raised as undead, in which case we may ambulate freely and spread destruction depending on type.=)

xevious573 wrote:
As is, the Lore Oracle gets wish once per day without material cost and this ability is hardly comparable.

This is comparing apples and oranges. The bloodline powers of a sorcerer are not on the same level, generally speaking, as the powers granted by an oracle's mysteries and so on (nor should they necessarily be). New material should compared against pre-existing material for a category to determine balance. In this case, bloodline abilities against pre-existing bloodline abilities. The only example of a bloodline receiving regeneration was a 3rd party publisher's bloodline, and one should always use caution when dealing with 3rd party material (and "splat" books published by the primary game designer).

It is not that no one has thought of the idea of using Regeneration in the past, it is that it is an extremely potent an ability (for anyone, but as a caster... I cannot see myself selecting any other bloodline if you grant Regenerate 10 or even 5), so much so that a caster level 15 item only grants Regeneration 1, not the 5-10 suggested above.

That said, I genuinely like the Kyton Bloodline idea & would like to see it come into its own.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think you'll find that there are very few abilities or items that give either regen or fast healing on a permanent basis (I can only think of the ring of regeneration). The strength of the these abilities to PCs is that is limits the loss of a very important resource throughout the day. To kill a PC that has regen OR fast healing, it must be done in 1 battle. All of the damage must come in one battle because if you give them more then a few minutes between a fight they recover all of their hit points.

I think giving the sorcerer even fast healing 1 at earlier levels would be too strong as in between fights they could just rest 5 or 10 minutes or whatever before continuing to explore with full hit points. The difference at 20th level (which is when I propose getting regen 5) between fast healing and Regen is I guess the need to finish off the opponent with a death effect or find out the weakness of the regen.

And thanks. I know we disagree on this part but I am glad that overall you like the bloodline as presented.


xevious573 wrote:
I think you'll find that there are very few abilities or items that give either regen or fast healing on a permanent basis (I can only think of the ring of regeneration). The strength of the these abilities to PCs is that is limits the loss of a very important resource throughout the day. To kill a PC that has regen OR fast healing, it must be done in 1 battle. All of the damage must come in one battle because if you give them more then a few minutes between a fight they recover all of their hit points.

One of the better "Fast Healing/Regen" abilities I was able to find was in the Oni Bloodline:

Oni Healing (Su): At 15th level, if your hit points drop below 0, you automatically stabilize and begin regenerating 2 hit points per round for a number of rounds per day equal to your sorcerer level. While regenerating in this way, you are not affected by spells or effects that would cause you to continue dying, such as bleed, but if you take any acid or fire damage, you stop regenerating for the rest of the day (but remain stabilized) and you are affected by such effects as normal. You still die if your hit points reach a negative number equal to your Constitution score, regardless of whether you are regenerating. This ability only works once per day—if you drop below 0 hit points a second time, you do not benefit from this ability.

xevious573 wrote:
I think giving the sorcerer even fast healing 1 at earlier levels would be too strong as in between fights they could just rest 5 or 10 minutes or whatever before continuing to explore with full hit points. The difference at 20th level (which is when I propose getting regen 5) between fast healing and Regen is I guess the need to finish off the opponent with a death effect or find out the weakness of the regen.

I agree. The earliest I was able to find a "Fast Healing" ability without limit was 11th level on a quick search of the SRD.

xevious573 wrote:
And thanks. I know we disagree on this part but I am glad that overall you like the bloodline as presented.

My intent is to help, so I'm glad you get that and it may just be a knee-jerk reaction on my part with the regen, I honestly can't say.

As far as additional inspiration, if you have access to the Tome of Horrors, I highly recommend you look over the N’gathau entry and the Plane of Agony - Pathfinders Kytons and the N’gathau are both highly inspired by the Hellraiser series.


Found a link to the N'gathau: N'gathau.

I use these as supplemental to the Kytons.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seems pretty cool. I like the random mutilations part. I'll have to go over it more detail when I have a clearer head. But do feel free to make suggestions. Other then the Regeneration issue and the Wildblooded's arcana, I think this bloodline is ready to go. Heck, the base bloodline is ready to go if you ignore regeneration option for the 20th level ability.

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