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Yeah. in 1940 you could buy a sack of potatoes for 1-2 shillings. That shilling was 92% silver meaning it now has a value of over 5 dollars a shilling. at 20 shillings a pound a factory worker on 235 pounds a year would be getting 23,500 dollars now. A clerk being paid 340 pounds would be getting 34,000 dollars now.
If we look at prices the 500 pound car would cost you 50,000 dollars now they cost 20 thousand which is in keeping with technological improvements contributing to efficiency of manufacture.
a sack of potatoes for 1-2 shillings would cost you 5-10 dollars now.
CEOs on the other hand who are being paid $1,000,000 a year which would be 10,000 pounds a year in 1940.
We have actually had close to zero wage/price inflation over the last seventy years.

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$1 in 1940 is the equivalent of about $17 today.
But one dollar then was made from a quantity of silver so its not the same dollar its a different dollar.
In reality the only thing that has happened is you are being psychologically messed with...you still have the same wage. Basically you shouldn't have any reason to b#!%# other than the economy has been stagnant for the last seventy years and some smart bugger has messed with the way you perceive reality just to screw with your head. But why would they screw with your head?
Have you ever heard the phrase 'Suffering is good for the Soul'? Basically all those religious nutters are happy to see you suffer because they figure it is good for you.

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This math is awful. You multiplied times inflation, then divided by inflation, and magically got the same number! Amazing.
What inflation. there hasn't been any. For inflation to exist there must be a change between two different things of value - money and food but the ratio of exchange hasn't- they simply changed the words cents for dollars and did away with the old dollar. The cents still have the same value they did you just call them dollars. Now your currency is still out there - its silver.
Basically if we take the dollar and call it cents we harken back a time when you could buy a bushel of apples for five cents.

thejeff |
I can't check the figures from here, but other things than food fit into inflation: housing prices, energy prices, healthcare. Those, I suspect,I suspect have risen faster.
Also, income for the rich has risen much faster than income for the rest of us. Your $1,000,000 vs 10,000 pounds numbers were pulled out of the air, not any actual statistics.

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Well the monetary system is based on fiat money that has no standard behind it. When the Federal Reserve System(you know that private bank that isn't part of the US Goverment) releases money into the economy it causes inflation.
In 1913 when the Federal Reserve System was created the US had a 1 billion dollar debt. Less then 100 years later it's 16 trillion.....

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
What inflation. there hasn't been any. For inflation to exist there must be a change between two different things of value - money and food but the ratio of exchange hasn't- they simply changed the words cents for dollars and did away with the old dollar.
You don't understand what inflation is. Inflation is the decrease in value of currency in terms of absolute units. The fact that a dollar in 1940 buys more than a dollar in 2010 is inflation. What you're comparing are real wages, wages divided by inflation. Those haven't actually been flat, but you can't tell because you're doing a bunch of conversions and introducing noise.
Well the monetary system is based on fiat money that has no standard behind it. When the Federal Reserve System(you know that private bank that isn't part of the US Goverment) releases money into the economy it causes inflation.
In 1913 when the Federal Reserve System was created the US had a 1 billion dollar debt. Less then 100 years later it's 16 trillion.....
The Fed banks are only "private" in the sense that they can be more-easily sued and are more subject to contracts than the government. They're wholly owned by the federal government, their officers are appointed by the president and confirmed by Congress, they operate under a charter which was written and can only be amended by Congress, and any profits they make go to the federal government. They are less independent from the federal government than the United States Postal Service.
But yes, when they increase the money supply, it does cause inflation. In fact, that is the entire reason they exist: to increase inflation to help get unemployment under control when things are bad, and to reduce inflation when things are good.

Irontruth |

Irontruth wrote:So your argument is that the price of silver is constant? You're one of those people.I'm suggesting the price of silver varies with all other things of value - not against them. Consequently it is no change in what it can be exchanged for.
So, you're saying that for example the cost of having a load of laundry done 150 years ago should cost the same amount of silver back then as it does today?

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The ratio between resources should only vary with efficiency of manufacture differences. SO yes if you are paying a couple of silver coins then - then the value in silver should be about what you would pay to have your laundry done now - in the same method.
You might as well just have the government change the wording on your currency from Dollars to Cents and get payed the dollar a day incomes you found unacceptable a century ago.
All the number on your currency has become is a magnifier of disparity.

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The Fed banks are only "private" in the sense that they can be more-easily sued and are more subject to contracts than the government. They're wholly owned by the federal government, their officers are appointed by the president and confirmed by Congress, they operate under a charter which was written and can only be amended by Congress, and any profits they make go to the federal government. They are less independent from the federal government than the United States Postal Service.
But yes, when they increase the money supply, it does cause inflation. In fact, that is the entire reason they exist: to increase inflation to help get unemployment under control when things are bad, and to reduce inflation when things are good.
Federal Reverse is not a fake private bank. Really? It's owned by the twelve regional private reserve banks which in turn are owned by wealthy banking cartels. It's a for profit organization that kicks back some money to the US but also puts the US in debt. Every dollar the US spends has interest on it. Every dollar the US print causes in inflation. Inflation is considered the norm.
This how the system works. Quoted from somewhere else...
FACT#1. The Federal Reserve is a private corporation, owned and controlled
mostly by foreign bankers.
FACT#2. How the Federal Reserve banks work (using a 10% reserve
requirement).
1. F.R. "creates" $1,000,000 worth of "debt certificates" with no assets
behind the creation, just the "OK" of Congress, and distributes it to banks.
2. The bank "Holds" the 10% reserve as operating capital ($100,000) and
loans the rest out at 10% interest.
3. The bank pockets $90,000 in interest, and accepts the $900,000 back as
a deposit.
4. The bank retains 10% of the $900,000 deposit as a reserve, and loans
out the $810,000 at 10% interest.
5. The process is repeated over and over, with "hard" assets pledged as
collateral for these "loans". Thus, it starts with "no money" and ends up
with houses, cars, land, silver, gold...real assets...and all it took was
some ink, some paper, and the cooperation of Congress.
FACT#3. The BIRTH of money #1...Congress authorizes the F.R. to purchase U.
S. Notes from the U.S. Bureau of Engraving for 2.5 cents per bill (no
difference between $1 and $1000 bills). The F.R. then issues an equal amount
of "debt certificate" Federal Reserve Notes which they use to purchase U.S.
Treasury Bonds. Taxpayers are, supposedly, obligated to pay off these bonds
at FULL FACE VALUE, plus the debt of the original currency purchased at 2.5
cents per bill!
FACT#4. The BIRTH of money #2...All credit is hypothecated upon the faith
and worthiness of the "United States". Congress authorizes various
corporations to extend the credit of the United States (as a privilege, not
a right) to finance mortgages and other types of credit. You and I could not
set up shop to extend credit to others, except we be licensed and approved
by the government. Thus, it is not the mortgage company, with whom you sign
a contract, who extends you credit...they are only an "agent"... it is the
United States who is the party with standing, and the only entity which can
sue or foreclose for breech of the contract. BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT! Then
there is the credit contract itself...a fraud perpetrated upon the buyer
every time. It is another means of "creation" of money. There is no "money"
exchanged in the mortgage transaction. It is a book entry made by the
"agent" which "monetizes" the value of the real thing, the property
involved. No contract is valid except both parties bring something of value,
called "consideration", to seal the contract. You are bringing the property,
and the promise of future payments...they bring nothing but the ability to
create credit...a congressional "okie-dokie"...to the contract. Thus the
government fraudulently claims superior ownership rights to the property
involved, and the ability to charge the "tenant" rent (called property
taxes, bet U thought U owned that property, right?) for the privilege of
using paper credit.
FACT#5. The taxes paid by Americans never provide ANY services to our
country...all collected income tax money goes DIRECTLY to the F.R. Board
(check the back of ANY check sent to the IRS...it is true).
FACT #6. All U. S currency is "Federal Reserve Notes" of debt, owed to the
Federal Reserve, and is borrowed into existence. How can you pay the debt
when you have to "borrow" the currency to pay the debt, FROM THE GUYS YOU
ALREADY OWE? It is like paying off your VISA card using THE SAME VISA
CARD...the interest just keeps growing, and no principal is ever paid! It is
a ponzi scheme....a scam...and America is the mark!

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Just a follow up. The number ONE reason the US revolted against England was because we were printing DEBT FREE money and England(Bank of England) took that power away from us and forced us to use DEBT Currency from the Bank of England which in turn destroyed the colonies economy.
The founding father had knew the dangers of a Central Banking system and fought them twice prior 1913. There was NO FEDERAL INCOME tax prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Our Income tax goes to pay the debt on the money we borrow from thin air.
Every country in the world is controled by a Central bank that is owned by foreign investors with the exception of three North Korea, Iran, and Cuba. Who are considered enemies of the US.
Research Central Banking in the US and it's a bit eye opening.

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
Wow, we have a winner. I like how your list of "facts" is almost completely nonfactual!
Time for a threadnaught.
Federal Reverse is not a fake private bank. Really? It's owned by the twelve regional private reserve banks which in turn are owned by wealthy banking cartels.
There is no single "Fed" bank. The Fed is short for "Federal Reserve Board", "Federal Reserve Banks", or less commonly or "Federal Reserve System". The Federal Reserve Board is the (POTUS-appointed, Congress-approved) board of directors of the Federal Reserve Banks, a group of twelve federally-owned banks. (More) The Federal Reserve System is these twelve banks and their larger interaction with (privately-owned) banks.
They aren't owned by banking cartels, but do offer special stock to banks representing that bank's required reserves in the Fed (on order to be eligible to make use of the Fed at all). Unlike capital stock (such as you'd buy on a stock market), this is much more like having money in a savings account, as it pays a fixed interest (6%), cannot be sold/traded/borrowed against, and does not offer any voting interest in the Fed. (url=http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm]more[/url])
It's a for profit organization that kicks back some money to the US but also puts the US in debt.
It's not for-profit, and any profits they make go back to the US Treasury. You're sort of right that the Federal Reserve Banks put the US in debt, since their original assets were essentially a pile of money that the US government created, gave to the Fed, and then had the Fed loan back to them, but this debt is just a useful legal fiction. The US federal government is only in debt to the Fed because it is useful to be in debt to the Fed.
Every dollar the US spends has interest on it.
This is nonsense.
Every dollar the US print causes in inflation. Inflation is considered the norm.
This is (almost) true! Every time the US does something to increase the monetary supply, it causes inflation. This is good and necessary, because not only is the economy constantly expanding (and thus the money supply needs to increase to match), but also because a limited amount of inflation discourages hoarding dollars, encourages investment, and shrinks personal/business debt.
The Fed is in charge of allowing a certain amount of inflation (the current target is 2%) and using monetary policy to lower unemployment. To do this, they have the power to both increase and decrease the monetary supply.
This how the system works. Quoted from somewhere else...
From this totally legit news site.
FACT#1. The Federal Reserve is a private corporation, owned and controlled
mostly by foreign bankers.
It is a private corporation, owned and controlled by the US federal government. This is a conspiracy theory corruption of a legitimate criticism of the Fed, that it favors the interests of bankers over the common good because almost of its officers are former bankers or investors or whatnot, and because they work too closely with the banking industry.
FACT#2. How the Federal Reserve banks work (using a 10% reserve
requirement).
This is nonsense. Here's a non-crazy-person rundown of how the Fed works.
FACT#3. The BIRTH of money #1...Congress authorizes the F.R. to purchase U.
S. Notes from the U.S. Bureau of Engraving for 2.5 cents per bill (no
difference between $1 and $1000 bills). The F.R. then issues an equal amount
of "debt certificate" Federal Reserve Notes which they use to purchase U.S.
Treasury Bonds. Taxpayers are, supposedly, obligated to pay off these bonds
at FULL FACE VALUE, plus the debt of the original currency purchased at 2.5
cents per bill!
This is actually half true! The US federal government originally issued Treasury Bonds to the Federal Reserve Banks for free, essentially creating a pile of money and borrowing it back from the Fed. Taxpayers aren't paying off these bonds at "FULL FACE VALUE" or any value; rather, the federal government pays them off with more bonds. This process is called "monetizing the debt"; while the federal government could just print money and hand it out to whoever it needs to pay, that isn't predictable and leads to worry by non-crazy people. Instead, this is a process to increase the money supply in a predictable way.
It's also half false. The Department of the Treasury literally prints and coins money; the Fed only prints money in the figurative sense, in that it increases and decreases the money supply (most of which is on paper, not composed of literal banknotes).
FACT#4. The BIRTH of money #2
This is a bunch of insanity. This hypothesizes that, because the Fed loans to banks, and the banks loan to you, the Fed is the real owner of your property. The problem is that the Fed doesn't loan banks the bulk of their assets, and you can't deal with the Fed as a bank until you have a significant pile of your own assets to begin with. Instead, the deal is that the bank makes a loan to you against their significant capital.
FACT#5. The taxes paid by Americans never provide ANY services to our
country...all collected income tax money goes DIRECTLY to the F.R. Board
(check the back of ANY check sent to the IRS...it is true).
Not true at all. Income taxes go to the Department of the Treasury.
FACT #6. All U. S currency is "Federal Reserve Notes" of debt, owed to the
Federal Reserve, and is borrowed into existence. How can you pay the debt
when you have to "borrow" the currency to pay the debt, FROM THE GUYS YOU
ALREADY OWE? It is like paying off your VISA card using THE SAME VISA
CARD...the interest just keeps growing, and no principal is ever paid! It is
a ponzi scheme....a scam...and America is the mark!q
You don't. The US federal government has no intention of paying off its debt to the Federal Reserve Banks. It never has, it never will, it would be insane to do so. That debt is just a useful legal fiction that allows the federal government to control the size of the money supply.
The number ONE reason the US revolted against England was because we were printing DEBT FREE money and England(Bank of England) took that power away from us and forced us to use DEBT Currency from the Bank of England which in turn destroyed the colonies economy.
Taxation without representation, man. I know a lot of the nonsense about American history in schools is jingoistic, but this one is true. The American colonists resented their tax burden, particularly given their lack of say in it.
The founding father had knew the dangers of a Central Banking system and fought them twice prior 1913. There was NO FEDERAL INCOME tax prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Our Income tax goes to pay the debt on the money we borrow from thin air.
There was the Revenue Act of 1861 (and a follow-up law in 1862), and the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act. It wasn't until 1895 in Pollock v. Farmers that income taxes were ruled unconstitutional. Also, while both the Federal Reserve Act and the 16th Amendment were passed in 1913, the amendment came before the FRA.
Every country in the world is controled by a Central bank that is owned by foreign investors with the exception of three North Korea, Iran, and Cuba. Who are considered enemies of the US.
Every nation any more has a central bank. Even Iran. I couldn't tell you which ones are "owned by foreign investors" except for the US's (which isn't). The only good example of a foreign-owned national bank I can think of is the ECB in Europe, which is a good example of what a national bank that doesn't have the nation's interests in mind actually looks like.

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
My, that is a long post, AMIB! Can you sum it up for me?
I sure can!
Central reserve banking is a fairly complex subject, not least because government debt is so similar to but so very different from other kinds of debt. That said, lastgrasp's posts are a bunch of factless crazy noise.

Irontruth |

The ratio between resources should only vary with efficiency of manufacture differences.
That's not true.
If you and I are both hungry, and there's a street vendor with an apple, but only the one and all other options are a long walk off, the price of that apple will go up, but only as much as you or I are willing to pay for it.
If it costs 50 cents normally, but you have 75 cents, you might be willing to pay a little extra to not walk really far. But if I have a dollar and I'm willing to pay more, the price goes up even further.
Some to remember, the past 100 years America has built an economic empire. We made a lot of money doing business, not just at home, but abroad as well. For example, the oil boom started in Texas, which gave us a huge jump on push on manufacturing.
The overall wealth of America has also gone up, which pushes prices up, even while manufacturing efficiency pushes prices down.
500 years ago, it cost nearly a whole days of a peasants wages to buy 1 hour of light (a candle). This was a big reason why people went to bed when the sun went down, keeping the house lit was expensive. Now it costs a few pennies to operate a light bulb in this country, if even that.
Washing clothes by hand is extremely laborious. Its basically an all day affair to wash a small families clothes, laundry day really was laundry day. With a washing machine, you can put a load in and go off to do something else. You might spend an hour total, including switching machines, sorting, storage, etc. But that's 7-10 hours you just saved, which you're using to do other things... like read a book to your kids, which makes them smarter.
There is a lot more at play in the economy than you imply by trying to boil it down to the price of silver... itself which is influenced by supply and demand and is NOT A CONSTANT.