I was playing around with concepts for equipping the PC's ship and was looking at the costs and feasibility of equipping cannons instead of the usual ballista (we have a gunslinger in our party so the cost won't be quite so prohibitive). But then I started digging into the numbers, chatted with our GM a little bit, and wound up scratching my head. Here's the thing...
A ballista does 3d8 damage and takes 2 rounds to load. So, it fires once every three rounds for an average of 13.5 dmg or 4.5/rd.
A cannon does 6d6 damage but takes 3 rounds to load and 1 round to aim. So, it fires once every five rounds for an average of 21 dmg or 4.2/rd.
Obviously we're assuming the loading and aim times also apply to the naval combat rules. So, why would you equip a ship with the more expensive cannon only to handicap your rate of fire and damage? Would the only reason be to get past the hardness? And is it worth that much of an investment when, ultimately, the goal is probably to board the other ship anyway?
If I'm making some false assumptions or have a misunderstanding of the rules, I'd love to be corrected. Right now I just don't see the point of using cannons other than the "cool" factor.
Can't edit my old post any more but did some more math. In an initial broadside of 10 weapons, factoring in hardness, the ballista will do an average of 85 points while the cannons would do 160. But the ballista will be ready to fire again in three rounds while the cannons are still reloading. In a very short or a long engagement, the cannons will clearly win out, but for most engagements is it worth 30k-60k of gold (per broadside)?
I'm just curious what people think. I'd have thought cannons would have a demonstrably more superior mechanic for naval engagements but, to my mind, that doesn't seem to be the case.
The "load" and "aim" statistics for siege engines represent the number of full-round actions required. So, if you have multiple people working at the task, it can be completed quicker.
From the player's guide:
Ballista, light 500 gp 3d8 19–20/×2 120 ft. P 1 0 2
It has an aim of 0 and a load of 2.
For example, a light ballista loaded by two creatures takes 1 round to load the siege weapon, since the creatures each take one of the two necessary full-round actions to do so.
So, for the light ballista you get:
1 crew can load and fire every 3 rounds
2 crew can load and fire every 2 rounds
3 crew can load and fire every round.
For the cannon,
Cannon 6,000 gp 6d6 x4 100 ft. B and P 2 1 3
It has an aim of 1 and load of 3.
1 crew can load and fire every 8 rounds (double time to aim with diminished crew)
2 crew can load and fire every 3 rounds
3 crew can load and fire every 2 rounds
6 crew can load and fire every round.
Of course, having the feat "Master Siege Engineer" cuts these full-round actions down to move actions allowing for far less crew.
/headdesk
Wow. That's embarrassing. Do you happen to have the page for that? Both my GM and I missed that.
[goes into the corner and puts his dunce cap on]
The bulk of what you need is on page 19 of the player's guide: "Firing Siege Engines"
All things being equal, if you have a broadside of 10 cannons, it would still be pretty cumbersome to have 60 extra crew around to operate them. In practice, you'd probably want 2 or 3 per cannon which means the ballista would still put out more damage per crew member if you want to compare them in that way.
Remember, crew being used to operate siege engines are above and beyond those needed to pilot the ship. After all, you can't be raising sail and loading a cannon at the same time. So, the capacity of your ship will end up being a limiting factor.
Thanks, Tem. That's incredibly helpful and hugely appreciated.
(I'm just gonna go back to junior high now and work on my reading comprehension skills.)
I think you would only need to crew half the ship's cannons at any one time. Generally, these crew come from the idlers (officers, carpenters, cooks, quartermaster) and off-shifts of the topmen.
I think you would only need to crew half the ship's cannons at any one time. Generally, these crew come from the idlers (officers, carpenters, cooks, quartermaster) and off-shifts of the topmen.
Well, a broadside of 10 cannons would be half of them (I'd assume you'd put 10 on both sides of the ship).
So, at a minimum, you'd need 81 crew on a sailing ship if you want to fire them every round (20 crew, 60 gunners and a pilot). The problem is that the 60 gunners are basically just sitting around most of the time otherwise.
Now, if you want your ship to be sailing 24 hours a day, you could have some people double up on duties. That is, if all your crew is trained with siege weapons, you might be able to get away with only 40-50 crew - particularly if you're willing to take a penalty to your Prof.(Sailor) check to pilot the ship during combat as some people get reassigned to firing the cannons.
Firing every other round, you'd need 10 crew minimum to pilot the ship and 30 gunners. You could also switch that to 20 crew and 20 gunners to avoid the sailing penalty but fire only once every 3 rounds. Also, when not in combat, you'd have two shifts of 20 crew you could use to sail all day and night (working in 12 hour shifts each). Of course, you're bound to lose some in combat so you might be safer off with at least another dozen or so to fill spots as people fall.
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Pure mechanics aside, how common are firearms in your campaign?
If they are rare, the 'default' setting in Golarion, then the non-mechanical effect benefit of having 10 cannons smashing into a ship will be pure terror from the other ship.
Imagine the BOOM, the tremors of impact, the stink of the gunpowder wafting on the breeze. Pure shock.