Aveldaxis
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I have a general understanding of the divide between Intelligence and Wisdom, and their roles in the way that a character is portrayed. If I remember right, the way Gygax put it, the Int guy knows why smoking is bad for him and the Wis guy chooses not to smoke. But what happens when you dump both, yet you've got so much Charisma that you can convince anyone to do almost anything for you, sway the hearts and minds of millions, and bend leaders to your whims with but a word?
Mechanically, max Cha allows you to manipulate those around you with extreme success, but this has a thematic assumption that the character in question is also relatively clever and experienced- he would have to be, otherwise how could be make such a strong case in any debate the way he does with those 20+ Diplomacy roles? So when you take a character who has the Charisma to win every argument, haggle any merchant, and inspire armies to greatness, but is as smart as a brick and as wise as a goldfish, how do you roleplay that? There seems to be an in-built contradiction when presented with this stat spread.
While I realize the easiest answer is "you're pretty," that doesn't feel adequate to explain the kinds of things you can do with maxed out Diplomacy. Especially if the character is interacting with NPCs of the same sex, who are significantly less likely to be influenced by your looks. Unless you're in the Kingdom of San Francisco.
| Magnu123 |
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You have fake knowledge. Confidence is practically synonymous with charisma. I remember charisma has also been described as follows: a person with high charisma can convince others that they are very knowledgeable, but they faulter when faced with a true expert.
Your character has probably bluffed him/herself into believing that they are intelligent and wise as well. They act with extreme confidence, though they often draw bad conclusions. Just because you can convince people to do something, doesn't mean that you convince them to do the right thing.
Aveldaxis
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You have fake knowledge. Confidence is practically synonymous with charisma. I remember charisma has also been described as follows: a person with high charisma can convince others that they are very knowledgeable, but they faulter when faced with a true expert.
Your character has probably bluffed him/herself into believing that they are intelligent and wise as well. They act with extreme confidence, though they often draw bad conclusions. Just because you can convince people to do something, doesn't mean that you convince them to do the right thing.
This makes perfect sense and is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.
| Hitdice |
You can make men and women alike swoon with a glance. Kings are at your beck and call when you snap your fingers. Whistle a tune, and it's the national anthem the very next day. Seas part and deserts bloom where you go.
But for the love of all that's Holy: never open your mouth to speak!
I can't help but think of Romey and Michelle's High School Reunion...
FallofCamelot
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Like I was totally going to the armour shop and they had like this totally awesome breastplate. And I was like Oh My Gahd Jenny I like so have to have that. And Jenny was like "Yah! That's, like, so totally you." So I went up to the blacksmith and he was like sooo dreamy and he was so nice to me and he gave me like, a discount and everything. And this Breastplate goes so well with the vambraces I picked up at that cute little shop in Korvosa. So like Jenny and me were walking over to the alehouse when all these goblins started attacking the town and so Jenny and me like totally killed them because they were like icky and stuff...
| MyTThor |
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My current char is a halfling Paladin who has 8/8/20, and I basically play him as an innocent, childlike type. It's actually fun to balance with the Paladin role-playing because my group basically can convince me of anything because I'm gullible, so it becomes this back and forth of me not disapproving of some action that's borderline and the elf wizard convincing me it's ok. But part of the charisma is I'm so badass and brave that my compatriots can't help but love me and be inspired by me. I'll charge headfirst into hopeless odds, come out victorious on the other side, and humbly thank my goddess for the power to triumph.
Aveldaxis
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Luffy from One Piece is a good example. People follow him even though he's an idiot.
I also like this explanation a lot. I'd never thought of that. Especially a Paladin, one of, if not the only class to get away with a 7/7/20 mental spread. He's indestructible, fearless, unwaveringly just and fair, and a complete moron.
twells
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2 Words: Forrest Gump
Forrest Gump, while INT 7, had some common sense and although was gullible, was not fooled by BS, so I would put his WIS higher than 7. He obviously was good at making WILL saves.
EntrerisShadow
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So I have this friend, right? And this guy is a major player with the ladies. Like, he is with a different woman every. single. night. He's sharp dressed, good looking, and smoother than smooth.
However, he's also sort of a twit. He knows next to nothing about religion, politics, history, or mathematics, but it doesn't prevent him from talking about them at length and almost convincing you he's telling the truth. Not only that, but he's fairly gullible. He never seems to know where the rest of the conversation is at, can't tell when people are mocking him, and still believes every single lie his mother has ever told him. True Story.
| The Keptain |
I have a general understanding of the divide between Intelligence and Wisdom, and their roles in the way that a character is portrayed. If I remember right, the way Gygax put it, the Int guy knows why smoking is bad for him and the Wis guy chooses not to smoke. But what happens when you dump both, yet you've got so much Charisma that you can convince anyone to do almost anything for you, sway the hearts and minds of millions, and bend leaders to your whims with but a word?
I think there might be multiple ways to portray this character. I like the Forrest Gump suggestion. I'm not familiar with most of the others, but the first to pop into my mind was Chauncey (Chance the) Gardener from the movie "Being There". He is someone with dress and manner alone (entirely unintentionally) is in a position to influence world events. I could see playing the character that way.
| Mordo the Spaz - Forum Troll |
But what happens when you dump both, yet you've got so much Charisma that you can convince anyone to do almost anything for you, sway the hearts and minds of millions, and bend leaders to your whims with but a word?
To misquote Tolkien, "Not all that are lost wander."
As others had said, false yet charming confidence.
To boldly go where mankind has previously had the common sense to never go before! (Cue music...)
| ImperatorK |
Cylyria wrote:Elan from Order of the StickNale too.
He always has enough people that actually follow his lead, most are extremely competent in their field. But his plans usually suck terribly and you can provoke him into doing fatal mistakes quite easily.
No. Nale is actually quite intelligent. His plans are just way too complicated then they have to, specifically because his so smart. He over-thinks things. That's probably also proof for low Wisdom.
Elan is more like a Low Int, Low Wis, high Cha guy.| Mark Hoover |
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I might not understand the big fancy words you're talkin mister, and maybe I ain't got the sense gods gave most mules but I do know one thing: courage. It don't take brains or even muscle to stand up fer sumthin you believe in; it just takes conviction to do sumthin about it. Now me 'n my friends here, we hear you been hurtin people, good people. Well that ain't right, jes like the preacher here says it ain't. So I'm only gonna ask once - pack up yer frogs, wands and jugs 'o slime and leave town!
I see this guy as just really dedicated to whatever naive principles or convictions he has and the courage to stand up for them. Fear effects are a Will save, so he gets afraid...often. But like a lot of the action heroes in the 90's and 2k films, he admits when he's afraid.
That's another part of this guy: he's very human (even if his race isn't Human). He's the everyman; the guy we can ALL relate to but yet he strives just a little farther than everyone else. Ex: Captain America back when he was just Steve Rodgers.
Here's a kid that doesn't know any more about the world than what he sees in the newsreels and aint never been outside the Bronx (not worldly or studied); he's not "wise" enough to avoid fights with bullies and in fact sometimes encourages them. Why? because he BELIEVES in the underdog, about right and wrong, and most of all he believes in himself. Sure he's not the smartest, strongest or even the wisest kid around, but if you'll just give him a uniform and a chance, he'll show you 10 TIMES the heart of any grunt on the line!
That's what these stats make me think of; that wierd, inner confidence that only a few great leaders have. It doesn't come from talent, or a special ability or knack; there's nothing unique about them. But they BELIEVE and that is inspiring.
And finally that word sums up this character for me: inspiring. Not because of the specific actions he takes but because he takes action at all. I like this guy. I WANT to hang out with him, lend him my skills when he needs them; he makes me feel inspired and feel like I'm part of something bigger just by hanging around him. That's my 2 coppers anyway.
| Kybryn |
| Kybryn |
You could play it this way:
Loyal and lovable. Cares about having feel-good relationships with those around him. Is not a leader, nor does he intentionally manipulate anybody. When he gets an idea in his head, you can't help but want to help him accomplish his goals. He always seems find a way to get the job done, even if he messes up or gets his allies in danger a few times along the way.
It's not like dumb people don't want good things, they just can't think of good ideas to get it. This kind of person is easily manipulated, and could easily be taken advantage of. It's good for this kind of player to be good friends with an intelligent person who cares for them and speaks reason when they cannot care or reason for themselves.
| Mad Jackson |
You basically described the public perception of most politicians or celebrities. This would a be a person with a massive entourage that would be basking in reflected fame and / or using the character's charisma to their own ends.
If you've seen Black Dynamite think Bullhorn as Sweet Throat (if you haven't, don't watch it if you're easily offended).
I've been racking my brain to figure out who would really fit and I think that Brittany Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Kim Kardashian, Geraldo Rivera, Blagojevich, Trump (he must have massive charisma or nobody would pay attention to him anymore ...) et al, would be good examples.
I disagree that this is Forrest Gump. Gump always knew the right thing to say and right action to take. Gump would be 7 INT, 18 WIS.