All rules between the front cover of the core rulebook through the back cover of the core rulebook, as well as all further supplemental material. Being a tabletop RPG without strict coding and everything set out point for point, clearly everything shall be used in a manner that was not predetermined by the writers. Everything can be gamed.
Sohei can pick any mounted feat as a Monk bonus feat. Monk bonus feats have no requirements.
Oh hai Mounted Skirmisher!
Sohei is a monk that is not only not useless, but is actually really strong. Clearly an error and not intended by the devs. *tongue-in-cheek*
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Don't spill coffee on your cat either!!! It is also mean and won't make your cat better, just very wet.
If you do however, use your character sheet to wipe off your cat, this should make you character sheet perfectly unreadable.;-D
I can attest that spilling hot coffee on your cat head will:
- make its fur fall for a time ( so you get a bald cat for a few days)- when it regrow the fur will be white (instead of grey, in my cat case).
It was a common trick used by horse breeders to get a white star on a horse front.
Trying to claim that you can't be counter spelled because your casting a stilled silenced spell with eschew materials.
That sounds more logical than any rules that say "you know exactly what the person standing there is thinking about/going to do with a Spellcraft check", which is essentially what it says in regards to using those Metamagics and Eschew Materials if you are arguing that you can identify the spell they're casting before its cast.
Sohei is a monk that is not only not useless, but is actually really strong. Clearly an error and not intended by the devs. *tongue-in-cheek*Sohei can pick any mounted feat as a Monk bonus feat. Monk bonus feats have no requirements.
Oh hai Mounted Skirmisher!
Well you know how much they dislike non-casters having nice things, it might be an oversight.
this thread is also
-commons misconceptions of the the rule
-helping the novice GM when a player is trying to bend the rules, perhaps unintentionally even
-using rules that hangover from previous editions
stuff like d-door is the easy way to escape from a grapple....when it clearly isnt!!
the heavens oracle HD adj thingey being applied to spells that is shouldnt, or quite innocently applied incorrectly
that sort of thing
I have no idea what you are talking about with the oracle sentence.
I believe he's referring to Awesome Display and saying he's had experiences with people applying the bonus wrong or on spells without the descriptor. I'm not quite sure how though, as it's fairly straight forward (if using an illusion pattern, affected creatures HD is instead their HD - your cha mod as far as the spell is concerned).
I remember that one. It seems fairly easy to read to me also.
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Yeah, I have a feeling a lot of the things referenced in this thread will actually be:
1) Things that work exactly like they're supposed to, but the GM/other players don't like it; or
2) Things that would work just fine if not for a given group's collective illiteracy.
There will probably be a few legitimately cheesy things in here, but I suspect they'll be the minority.
I think I have to agree Jiggy. That Strong Jaw post is just one example.
2) Things that would work just fine if not for a given group's collective illiteracy.
Reminds me of my one friend who made a magus and was under the impression Spell Combat eventually let a magus cast two spells as part of the routine. He also thought Pool Strike was a good Arcana... >_<
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Ran into a guy playing a ninja who was trying to apply Sneak Attack to a ranged attack without meeting the necessary conditions. He said he'd read that ranged attacks worked with sneak attack (which is true), and several people tried to explain that yes, ranged attacks were eligible for SA, but the target still needed to be denied its DEX bonus to AC first (it wasn't). The guy seemed to think we were saying he couldn't sneak attack at range at all, because he just kept repeating that rule over and over. :P
One could argue that a maximized time stop + 3 or 4 maximized delayed blast fireballs is a pretty cheesy use of the rules.
Sure, it's 4 or 5 spells, but it's also 240 to 300 damage.
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A 1st level Wizard can make their Familiar invisible for 10 minutes at the time. Just use Disguise Self on the critter: it can "make you seem one foot shorter", and since most familiars aren't even a foot tall, they effectively vanish from sight.
One could argue that a maximized time stop + 3 or 4 maximized delayed blast fireballs is a pretty cheesy use of the rules.
Sure, it's 4 or 5 spells, but it's also 240 to 300 damage.
One 9th level and 4 or 5 8th levels. It's a lot of destruction quickly, but that is a lot of resources. Hope you don't have more than one encounter that day or god forbid you unstop time just to watch the enemy Improved Evasion away =p
One 9th level and 4 or 5 8th levels. It's a lot of destruction quickly, but that is a lot of resources. Hope you don't have more than one encounter that day or god forbid you unstop time just to watch the enemy Improved Evasion away =pOne could argue that a maximized time stop + 3 or 4 maximized delayed blast fireballs is a pretty cheesy use of the rules.
Sure, it's 4 or 5 spells, but it's also 240 to 300 damage.
Even normal evasion can make you cry. A must have for Paladins and such is a Ring of Evasion. :3
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My favourite trick is Shadow Projection on a familiar...
It has target = you so you can use it via share spells, and then you just throw your comatose pet in your bag and you have a pet Str-damaging Shadow. Pretty drastically more effective than casting it on yourself, and basically negates the normal drawback.
And yes, evasion makes people cry.
This isn't a rule bend but some GM's get upset about it... if you are mounted and a bad guy hits you, you get an immediate reaction to take a ride test for cover to add to your AC and negate if your new AC is high enough...
One of those hidden benefits of a skill that not many folks take advantage of.
Cover: You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can't attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don't get the cover benefit. Using this option is an immediate action, but recovering from this position is a move action (no check required).
AND I just noticed this: Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
So it'd work against Combat Manuevers as well?
My favourite trick is Shadow Projection on a familiar...
It has target = you so you can use it via share spells, and then you just throw your comatose pet in your bag and you have a pet Str-damaging Shadow. Pretty drastically more effective than casting it on yourself, and basically negates the normal drawback.And yes, evasion makes people cry.
You just made my jaw drop (a difficult task). That's F'in brilliant and I'm totally using that for my Arcane trickster's monkey, Jack II. Mostly for the scouting potential.
I wonder though can that shadow familiar now be your "toucher" for your toutch spells?
My favourite trick is Shadow Projection on a familiar...
It has target = you so you can use it via share spells, and then you just throw your comatose pet in your bag and you have a pet Str-damaging Shadow. Pretty drastically more effective than casting it on yourself, and basically negates the normal drawback.And yes, evasion makes people cry.
You just made my jaw drop (a difficult task). That's F'in brilliant and I'm totally using that for my Arcane trickster's monkey, Jack II. Mostly for the scouting potential.
I wonder though can that shadow familiar now be your "toucher" for your toutch spells?
Shadow projection does not cause you to lose any of your abilities. In fact, it even goes so far as to say you gain the listed abilities, but lose none. A sorcerer using shadow projection could still cast spells for example. Your familiar loses none of its familiar abilities while made a shadow; so the answer would be yes, it can deliver them. It can even deliver them as part of its natural attack, and not expend them if it misses (see rules for unarmed attacks and touch spells).
Shadow projection does not cause you to lose any of your abilities. In fact, it even goes so far as to say you gain the listed abilities, but lose none. A sorcerer using shadow projection could still cast spells for example. Your familiar loses none of its familiar abilities while made a shadow; so the answer would be yes, it can deliver them. It can even deliver them as part of its natural attack, and not expend them if it misses (see rules for unarmed attacks and touch spells).My favourite trick is Shadow Projection on a familiar...
It has target = you so you can use it via share spells, and then you just throw your comatose pet in your bag and you have a pet Str-damaging Shadow. Pretty drastically more effective than casting it on yourself, and basically negates the normal drawback.And yes, evasion makes people cry.
You just made my jaw drop (a difficult task). That's F'in brilliant and I'm totally using that for my Arcane trickster's monkey, Jack II. Mostly for the scouting potential.
I wonder though can that shadow familiar now be your "toucher" for your toutch spells?
Shadow monkey of electric death coming right up!
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Even normal evasion can make you cry. A must have for Paladins and such is a Ring of Evasion. :3One 9th level and 4 or 5 8th levels. It's a lot of destruction quickly, but that is a lot of resources. Hope you don't have more than one encounter that day or god forbid you unstop time just to watch the enemy Improved Evasion away =pOne could argue that a maximized time stop + 3 or 4 maximized delayed blast fireballs is a pretty cheesy use of the rules.
Sure, it's 4 or 5 spells, but it's also 240 to 300 damage.
Hmm:
Ring of EvasionThis ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.
...
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
I don't see anything that allow the ring to bypass the need to be in light or no armor. Generally the paladins use heavy armor. Granted you can decide that in a high level game AC don't matter and have your paladin go around in light armor but it isn't a standard choice.
Rings of evasion don't give you the evasion class feature, they let you avoid reflex save damage as if you had it. Even if they did require the same limits... what high level paladin worth their salt is wearing traditional heavy armor instead of mithral celestial plate?
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AND I just noticed this: Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
So it'd work against Combat Manuevers as well?
Interestingly...
A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD.
Cover is an untyped bonus to AC, and therefore not on that list. Thus, technically, cover doesn't help your CMD.
Which is dumb.
Especially considering that (as you discovered) concealment would apply to maneuvers, and if cover was a penalty to hit instead of a bonus to AC, it would work too.
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Shadow projection does not cause you to lose any of your abilities. In fact, it even goes so far as to say you gain the listed abilities, but lose none. A sorcerer using shadow projection could still cast spells for example. Your familiar loses none of its familiar abilities while made a shadow; so the answer would be yes, it can deliver them. It can even deliver them as part of its natural attack, and not expend them if it misses (see rules for unarmed attacks and touch spells).My favourite trick is Shadow Projection on a familiar...
It has target = you so you can use it via share spells, and then you just throw your comatose pet in your bag and you have a pet Str-damaging Shadow. Pretty drastically more effective than casting it on yourself, and basically negates the normal drawback.And yes, evasion makes people cry.
You just made my jaw drop (a difficult task). That's F'in brilliant and I'm totally using that for my Arcane trickster's monkey, Jack II. Mostly for the scouting potential.
I wonder though can that shadow familiar now be your "toucher" for your toutch spells?
For a few seconds I had cold shivers at the thought of what a summoner could do with a scroll of that spell, then I remembered that he could use share spells only with spell from his spell list.
Now the only problem is if he can add the spell to his spell list using some feat/archetype ability. There is a way to do that?
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Rings of evasion don't give you the evasion class feature, they let you avoid reflex save damage as if you had it. Even if they did require the same limits... what high level paladin worth their salt is wearing traditional heavy armor instead of mithral celestial plate?
Additionally, if you were to apply an armor restriction, you'd have to decide whose evasion the ring was mimicking; rangers get to use it in medium armor. Which one's the default? Neither references the other (i.e., "functions as the X class feature of the same name, except...") so you would have to arbitrarily pick one.
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Rings of evasion don't give you the evasion class feature, they let you avoid reflex save damage as if you had it. Even if they did require the same limits... what high level paladin worth their salt is wearing traditional heavy armor instead of mithral celestial plate?
"as if" mean exactly that: you have an ability with all his limitations and drawbacks.
"mithral celestial plate"
"Celestial Plate Armor
Celestial plate armor is a sturdier version of the standard celestial armor. This bright silver suit of +3 full plate is remarkably light, and is treated as medium armor. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, an armor check penalty of –3, and an arcane spell failure chance of 20%. It allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day."
I seriously doubt that you can stack 2 levels of armor class encumbrance reduction, getting a "light" encumbrance plate.
Mithral say: " Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light."
Plate armour is a heavy armour, making it medium 2 times don't make it light.
Additionally, if you were to apply an armor restriction, you'd have to decide whose evasion the ring was mimicking; rangers get to use it in medium armor. Which one's the default? Neither references the other (i.e., "functions as the X class feature of the same name, except...") so you would have to arbitrarily pick one.
That is a good question, and worth a FAQ.
as in 3.5 the ranger ability was identical to the rogue ability I would use the rogue ability and think that the lack of a specification is a holdover from 3.5, but it is a arbitrary decision.
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Cover is an untyped bonus to AC, and therefore not on that list.A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD.
Nitpick: the bonus type for cover is "cover", not untyped. Multiple sources of cover bonus to AC do not stack with each other, which they would if they were untyped.
That doesn't invalidate the rest of your statement, however, since it still doesn't appear on the list.
EDIT: fixed quote levels.
This is not rule bending at all.Toe claws.
7th level druids wildshaping into Mega Raptors with Strong Jaw and Deinonychus companions while convincing everybody that syntesists are overpowered.
Both legal by RAW, both cheesy.
It might be, considering the Mega Raptors don't come from an official Paizo source like a Bestiary, but from a WotC forum.
It might be, considering the Mega Raptors don't come from an official Paizo source like a Bestiary, but from a WotC forum.This is not rule bending at all.Toe claws.
7th level druids wildshaping into Mega Raptors with Strong Jaw and Deinonychus companions while convincing everybody that syntesists are overpowered.
Both legal by RAW, both cheesy.
Incorrect. Only the lore DCs on that page come from a WotC forum. Megarapters exist in 3.x, and are also mentioned in the Bestiary. They are large-sized Deinonychus with 8 HD.
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Anotehr reason to assume that a ring of evasion allows you to use it in HEAVY armor.
Tower Shield Specialist Archetype:
Tower Shield Evasion (Ex): At 16th level, while using a tower shield, the tower shield specialist gains evasion, as the rogue class ability.Unless you would restrict them to doing this while wearing light armor and a tower shield.
Actually, as written, that archetype do exactly that. It say explicitly "as the rogue class ability". Probably it is not RAI, but it is RAW.
I would say it is a good candidate for an errata.You all have some valid point, but I would like a developer input.
I have made a thread asking about the ring of evasion and I ask you to click the FAQ button there.
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Nitpick: the bonus type for cover is "cover", not untyped.That's what I was expecting, but when I went to the official PRD to verify/quote, I found no such language. Where did you find it?
Hmm, mostly I got caught up in remembering 3.0/3.5 rules where it was called out specifically. However, based on this passage...
Improved Cover
In some cases, such as attacking a target hiding behind an arrowslit, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations, the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively).
... I'd say that the language referring to "cover bonus to AC" rather than "a bonus to AC" just got trimmed down for readability. Since the Improved Cover section refers to the "cover bonuses" I think there's still a precedent for it being typed.
Still and all, I think it needs to be more clear in the Pathfinder rule set.
Megaraptors are not RAW legal. They are just a suggestion to either advance HD or to apply the advanced and giant templates. Polymorph rules forbid both advancement and templates.
Changing the size of exiting forms is apparently RAI for the various animal shaman archetypes, though.
Megaraptors are not RAW legal. They are just a suggestion to either advance HD or to apply the advanced and giant templates. Polymorph rules forbid both advancement and templates.
Changing the size of exiting forms is apparently RAI for the various animal shaman archetypes, though.
Advanced means that it has additional HD, so it wouldn't matter. Changing into different sized versions of the same animals is not illegal, because the bestiary specifically notes them as different types of animals. There are for example medium sized bears. Just because the only bear mentioned in the bestiary is a grizzly bear does not mean all bears are grizzlies.
The only think I can think of is the Peasant Railgun.
-Line up a bunch of NPC's.
-Give the one on the end a +5 shortbow with all the enchants you can.
-Peasant 1 fires it, then drops it. Peasant 2 picks it up (move action), fires it (standard), then drops it (free action).
-Repeat all the way down the line, for however many peasants you have.Result: More attacks with your enchanted bow per round than you've ever seen in your life.
"Guys, the village is attacked by orcs, the hunters are all out and we only got a single bow!"
"No worries, just line up on the palisade and you take the bow, once you fire it pass it along, we will all take a shot at 'em!"
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The Bestiary does not actually include entries for animals of different sizes, merely suggestion on how a GM might stat them. The polymorph rules say players aren't allowed to edit the monsters in such a way, so they are not an option unless the GM lets you have them.
There's only one sentence on megaraptors, not an entry:
Conversely, you can either increase the deinonychus to Large size and its Hit Dice to 8 or simply apply the giant and advanced template to create a formidable megaraptor.
That entry says "create" and if a player is allowed to create monsters to polymorph into, we end up with human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together... mass hysteria!
It's a perfectly reasonable house rule to let players apply the giant or young templates to polymorphs, but it's still a house rule.
Nitpick: the bonus type for cover is "cover", not untyped.That's what I was expecting, but when I went to the official PRD to verify/quote, I found no such language. Where did you find it?Hmm, mostly I got caught up in remembering 3.0/3.5 rules where it was called out specifically. However, based on this passage...
Improved Cover
In some cases, such as attacking a target hiding behind an arrowslit, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations, the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively).
... I'd say that the language referring to "cover bonus to AC" rather than "a bonus to AC" just got trimmed down for readability. Since the Improved Cover section refers to the "cover bonuses" I think there's still a precedent for it being typed.
Still and all, I think it needs to be more clear in the Pathfinder rule set.
There was never "cover bonus" in 3.5.
I think the list was.
Alchemical Bonus
Armor Bonus
Deflection Bonus
Dodge Bonus
Enhancement Bonus
Insight Bonus
Luck Bonus
Natural Armor Bonus
Profane Bonus
Racial Bonus
Resistance Bonus
Sacred Bonus
Shield Bonus
There are probably some more bonus types in the splat books, but there was never an official "cover bonus" that I know of. The bonus from cover was untyped.
If the megaraptor is only a houserule then it is not a rule bending trick, since house rules are not really rules, and it never should have been mentioned. That is like me saying 40 point buy is a rule bending trick just because a GM can allow it.
If the animal is official because it is suggested that a GM can make one it is not a rule bending trick at all.
Either way it is not rule bending.
Of course now the question can be asked, if a GM applies the zombie template to a monster that Pathfinder has yet to produce stats for, is that zombie also a houserule?
If you mean you can gate in really powerful monsters, it still isn't rule bending.
Due to the errata not be updated, a strict reading of the rules allows all spontaneous casters, except bards and sorcerers, to use metamagic without the 1 round increase in casting time.
I believe he's referring to Awesome Display and saying he's had experiences with people applying the bonus wrong or on spells without the descriptor. I'm not quite sure how though, as it's fairly straight forward (if using an illusion pattern, affected creatures HD is instead their HD - your cha mod as far as the spell is concerned).
** spoiler omitted **
yep, easy peasy, and thats why there are various threads about it
Im fine with it, it just comes up on threads once in a while
This is PF. Its has 1200 pages of rules. nothing is straight forward