RotRL vs. Kingmaker for new players

[Ben A]

I have two new players starting their first RGP tabletop campaign of any sort. I was gearing up for Kingmaker, but am now considering RotRL as it's dropping here soon. Any opinions on which is best? I know nothing of RotRL, but have read through most of the Kingmaker AP. I plan to run an NPC (some sort of heals) with the party and maybe run them a bit high in level or gear to balance out encounters and not wipe the newbies every other encounter. Thanks for your input.

[Olwen]

With players that are new to RPG, I'd advise you to go for RotR. The very open aspect of Kingmaker and the lack of an obvious, well-defined story can be overwhelming to new players who wouldn't know what to do. As such RotR would likely be better, and easier on you, the GM, as it's much more story-driven. It's a brilliant campaign, especially with the new revision that just came out.

Don't get me wrong, Kingmaker is really great (I'm currently in chapter 6 with my group and it's been a blast), but I just wouldn't GM it for new players.

[Haladir]

I would also vote for Runelords. I haven't played Kingmaker, but a sandbox-style AP might very well confuse/confound/befuddle new players who would be expecting a linear plot.

[NobodysHome]

I third RotRL. Even my experienced crew isn't enjoying Kingmaker because of its wide-open nature. I tell them, "Your charter is to explore this region," and they wait and wait and wait for me to give them more to do. Basically, you need a group that thinks it's fun to wander around for no particular reason and do stuff. Even with the mini-quests, the party does very little.

RotRL is far more guided, and my groups just like at least SOME guidance as to what to do next. Weird, because a ton of people LOVE Kingmaker. Different playing styles and all that...

[Lamplighter]

Agree - Runelords is a "classic" for a reason. It offers more guidance to newer players, yet still allows you to deviate and come up with your own stuff if you want. You can even use some of the Kingmaker campaign rules in Runelords, in about Book 3...

[Old Drake]

Without question Runelords.

Kingmaker is an AP that can be great, but it requires the players to not only buy into the campaign, but actively drive it and create their own story. Without a good background and ambitions beyond following the plot, it becomes rather mediocre.

From a DM POV, Runelords is also a lot easier to run. Kingmaker needs a lot of modification to make sense (foreshadowing the BBEG, far more random encounter in the wild to show why these lands are unsettled, foreign relations, several earlier Rushlight festivals, political developments in Brevoy, attending the council of the River Kings, many new NPCs to give player neighbors, etc). In a way Kingmaker is a good outline of events that will happen in the campaign, but after the first book the main drive of the campaign will/should be on players (and NPCs) creating their story. The books tend to become background to the real focus of the story, and the DM needs to make up/go along with that story.

This makes Kingmaker the perfect AP for experienced groups that want to create an epic story and know how to create characters that allow for great roleplaying - and how to create characters that form a good group.

Oh, and an absolute must for Kingmaker is enjoyment of intrigue and ability to build characters that are suited for combat and social situations. Building your kingdom means a lot of interacting with NPCs. And politics. Various religions vying for influence (mostly peacefully, but some aren't above covered actions). Courtly intrigue, possibly including assassinations and other attempts to get ahead. And let's not forget the bureaucracy; and all those that may buy influence there. Or ideological clashes among its members.

It can make for great games, but it will take a lot of commitment from the players and isn't really suited as introduction. You can easily end up with over 100 important NPCs and several hundred more named NPCs.

Runelord on the other hand is classic roleplaying. You are a band of traveling heroes working against a big evil. It's a great story, but the scope is limited enough that it's easy for players and DM to keep track of everything. There aren't really any important NPCs that will be there from beginning to end; the closest will be Sandpoint based NPCs the players want to hang out with.