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Some of us can't make cons or are able to travel where events that give racial boons are available. Also some of us refuse to go on eBay to buy boons soooo here's an idea:
What if you could gain faction with a race to open up a boon?
Example: You complete X number of scenarios/modules that give you Y number of Fame with race Z. Once you bypass a certain number you can earn a boon with race Z that you could apply to a new character.
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Hey! Let's build an escalator on Mt Everest!
There, I suggested it. Now, other ways to get race boons...
Obviously, buy them with prestiege from another character whose Faction could have something to do with the race in question. Want a tiefling? 20 Chelixian PP. Aasimar for 20 Silver Crusade PP. You get the idea. Note that I'm not suggesting the new boon-race character has to be a member of the Faction the points come from, just the player has to earn the points working for that Faction with the original character.
Less obviously, the "if you have all three Chronicles" trick for extra-fancy swag when compleating an entire series could be a good place for something like this. After all, so far I have an axe beak mount and two characters with permenent endure elements from that deal, why not a cool race.
I'm sure there are other ways to do it, those are off the top of my head.
But let's face it-either one is better than having them for sale on eBay.
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What alternative ideas do you have that I can provide for convention support that will be as well received as a convention support prize as race boons are and that:
1) does not break the WBL curve
2) is not overpowered
3) would convince someone to come to a con when they otherwise would not attend?
Rebuild Chronicles (I.E. you may retrain two feats note the before and after on this chronicle) would be very popular. Probably popular enough to start threads suggesting alt ways to get them. You could have doffrent types and the limited nature would help perserve continuity.
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would convince someone to come to a con when they otherwise would not attend?
I don't think the solution is to try luring the original-poster to a convention. Some players just do not have the ability to attend regardless of the dangling carrot. Could be work issues, financial concerns, family commitments, international travel, etc. There will always be players that are completely unable to attend conventions. So the questions become...
Do we want to even consider a program/process by which a player can earn a racial boon without attending a convention?
If no, the issue is closed and no further discussion is required. Those who cannot attend are just not eligible for a boon and will have to seek an alternate avenue such as getting one (trading) from someone who did attend said convention.
If yes, what parameters would allow a non-attendee earn a boon? It would have to be relatively difficult to achieve so as not to marginalize those who did attend a convention. At the same time, it has to be something that is actually attainable, at the local level, through standard gameday play.
Thoughts?
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I still like the occasional suggestion of giving players a special boon every time they earn another star as a GM. Racial boons could be among those.
This.
People can say "But I just can't make it to Cons!""I just can't get around to GMing" is a much less convincing argument.
This will also help quell the ever-present fear that the unwashed masses will flood the ranks of the Society with their catfolk and ponykin, as one needs to have a good deal of investment to open up these options.
As far as conventions and qualification #3 go, I agree with that Mad Alchemist fellow: rebuild certs don't break the game, encourage players to use new material, and, just from the feedback on the forums, seem to be in pretty high demand.
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Here is my suggestion
Everyone can have 1 character of whatever new races are allowed for Society play. That charater is gained by a special cert earned by having a character reaching 12th level and retiring.
That would encourge people to play more mods anywhere to get the cert. This could be cons, game days, or game nights in you mom's basement.
It would reward people who have spent many hours playing this game and open access to everyone willing to put in the time.
The cert could be limited to 1 new race per player or 1 per 12th level character reaching retirement level. Whatever works best.
My 2 Coppers.
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Rewarding someone because they put more time in is not fair at all. Some people have limited schedules that allow them to only play occasionally and just like the "you have to go to a con to get a boon" that is not fair either. MMO's basically do this and this is one of the main things I hate about them. You can be a mindless dribble but if you play enough you eventually get phat lootz, it is no longer about skill or playing properly and more about how much time you spend playing.
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I've been playing since year 0 and do not have a 12th level character yet, it does take time. This could be something anyone can earn for all of the effort. (To be honest, via cons I have collected 3 racial certs.)
This way players can recieve something for what they are going to do anyway..play the game. And they are not spending any extra money for travel, hotel, food, admission..etc.
Otherwise why can't I say give me a 12th level character becasue I don't have the time to level up, or give me 30,000 gold because I don't have the time to go adventure and earn it?
Look at school or work. You put in some effort, and you graduate, or you get a raise(or these days, you stay employed).
It's just a suggestion, and it might be too late. I saw posts, saying something about this topic may be comming out around Gencon.
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I think a lot of folks are missing Mike's point.
In order to give out race booms via some method other than con attendance, we need something else that can be given out instead of the race boons to drive con attendance.
Until we have that "something else," you're not very likely to see many racial boons offered outside of cons, if at all. Discussing "other ways to get racial boons" doesn't address the reason why we're not providing other ways to get racial boons.
Keep in mind that the "something else" has to meet the criteria Mike listed.
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To be honest guys?
Let's wait to see what's opened up in 4.2* and then go from there. No point in having this debate again (and remember I'm pretty vocal about it) with changes this close.
*
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Rewarding someone because they put more time in is not fair at all.WOW! I totally disagree. People who put extra effort should get rewarded for that extra effort. This is the American Way!
So you think that someone who shows up more often should get unique rewards just for playing? They could be the more rules lawyery, cheesehead and if they play enough they get a shiny new reward, whereas the guy who has other commitments that cannot show up enough to get a character to level 12 is penalized due to other commitments. There is no effort in showing up to play, there is effort on the part of people who gm and actually help run things.
Rewarding someone because they put more time in is not fair at all. Some people have limited schedules that allow them to only play occasionally and just like the "you have to go to a con to get a boon" that is not fair either. MMO's basically do this and this is one of the main things I hate about them. You can be a mindless dribble but if you play enough you eventually get phat lootz, it is no longer about skill or playing properly and more about how much time you spend playing.And that has to do with this how?????
This needs to be emphasised. the PURPOSE of the race boons is to drive con attendence. That's pretty much the only reason to give them out in the first place. Also keep in mind that going to a con only gives you a CHANCE at the boons, not a guaranteed receipt.
First I would suggest reading the post directly about what you quoted from me where it was suggested that someone who gets to level 12 gets a race boon. Then you will understand what my point is. I do agree that there should be other ways, other than going to a con and having a chance to win one to get these treasures, but they should not be given simply to someone who plays more often, they should be given to people that actively help the game grow, or to people that gm, etc.
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To be honest guys?
Let's wait to see what's opened up in 4.2* and then go from there. No point in having this debate again (and remember I'm pretty vocal about it) with changes this close.
*** spoiler omitted **
Yeah I guess, you see some people will never be happy with what they're going to allow.... The new threads will be ..."What about the CATFOLK....its unfair that [insert race here] is allowed and not the catfolk..."
Rewarding someone because they put more time in is not fair at all. Some people have limited schedules that allow them to only play occasionally and just like the "you have to go to a con to get a boon" that is not fair either. MMO's basically do this and this is one of the main things I hate about them. You can be a mindless dribble but if you play enough you eventually get phat lootz, it is no longer about skill or playing properly and more about how much time you spend playing.And that has to do with this how?????
This needs to be emphasised. the PURPOSE of the race boons is to drive con attendence. That's pretty much the only reason to give them out in the first place. Also keep in mind that going to a con only gives you a CHANCE at the boons, not a guaranteed receipt.
Does the something that drives con attendance need to be qualitatively different or just quantitatively different? If it needs to be qualitatively different, I am not sure what to do -- maybe grant boons that permit playing of "monster" races that have racial hit dice? If a quantitative difference is enough, how about double rewards for adventures undertaken at a convention?
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To be honest guys?
Let's wait to see what's opened up in 4.2* and then go from there. No point in having this debate again (and remember I'm pretty vocal about it) with changes this close.
*** spoiler omitted **
+1
Maybe folks missed the other thread(s), but we can expect some different things after GenCon. Until then, please play the patience boon. If you dinnae have a patience boon and cannae get to GenCon to get a patience boon or afford a patience boon on ebay, please step away from the screen, step into the sunshine count to twenty-seven (preferably in ancient summarian or gaelic and try again when it seems important enough).|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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To be honest guys?
Let's wait to see what's opened up in 4.2* and then go from there. No point in having this debate again (and remember I'm pretty vocal about it) with changes this close.
*** spoiler omitted **
+1
Maybe folks missed the other thread(s), but we can expect some different things after GenCon. Until then, please play the patience boon. If you dinnae have a patience boon and cannae get to GenCon to get a patience boon or afford a patience boon on ebay, please step away from the screen, step into the sunshine count to twenty-seven (preferably in ancient summarian or gaelic and try again when it seems important enough).
My prediction: it won't matter what they open up (if they open anything up). People will still want more, and the volume won't get turned down, at all. If they open up kobolds, someone will be annoyed that there aren't goblins. If they open up kitsune, someone else will be pissed that they can't play a gripli. I wish it were otherwise, but we seem to have a pathological need to be granted what we want, and we want it NOW.
Sorry if I sound bitter, but I've seen so many of these threads I can't keep them straight anymore.
For the constructive part of this post:
If you want a tiefling or dhampir boon, sanction a Beginner Box Bash through Mike and run it. He will allow you to do one, if you demonstrate a proper purpose for it, and you will be given access to the boon. How do I know this? Well, just last week I was given permission to do this very thing. And, yes, he said I could give the boon to my GM.
I've said it many times in these threads: just try to do something constructive instead of lamenting your lack of options. There are avenues that grant these boons to you, and Mike will work with you. Try.
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Whatever is decided I hope those who have already earned Race boons don't feel slighted. I like the idea of rewarding GM stars and perhaps the 12th-level option.
As an additional option for a reward for those going to a Con, how about accessing unique and balanced Intelligent items that can be purchased with gold/PP?
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As an additional option for a reward for those going to a Con, how about accessing unique and balanced Intelligent items that can be purchased with gold/PP?
We did offer an intelligent item with its own history for auction at both PaizoCon and PaizoCon UK. It was the soul of a former Pathfinder locked in an Ioun Stone. The same item was offered at both cons, starting bid was 4,900 GP, and you could use 2 PP to add 750 GP to your bid. You could mix and match PP and GP as well. There was no limit on the number of PP that could be spent. We received 11 bids between the two items at the two shows. That is very underwhelming.
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Yes, but counter to that, those items sat on the table at PaizoCon for four hours and received five bids total. Also, it was clearly labeled in red text item bidding would end at 10 PM.
Most of the other items received only one or two bids so this clearly tells me there isn't a lot of interest in unique items.
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We did offer an intelligent item with its own history for auction at both PaizoCon and PaizoCon UK. It was the soul of a former Pathfinder locked in an Ioun Stone. The same item was offered at both cons, starting bid was 4,900 GP, and you could use 2 PP to add 750 GP to your bid. You could mix and match PP and GP as well. There was no limit on the number of PP that could be spent. We received 11 bids between the two items at the two shows. That is very underwhelming.
As an additional option for a reward for those going to a Con, how about accessing unique and balanced Intelligent items that can be purchased with gold/PP?
Ah yes. That intelligent ioun stone was the only item I wanted out of all of the auctions. I couldn't beat the current bid though by the time I got there, even if I ran myself dry on PP (and honestly even if I had possessed slightly more funds to do that, I'm sure the max bidder at the time could have just outbid me anyway). I'm very very surprised that there were so few bids compared to the number of high level folk at the Grand Convo though. My top character is level 7 (I have 8 characters, but getting people to play the same character enough to organize a 7-11 is like pulling teeth), so trust me if I had been able to bring a level say 10 or so, I would have been all up in that auction.
A few possibilities--First of all, not everyone may have seen the auctions. I thought I was being extremely thorough in checking the tables and I missed the Appraise-based minigame table that was apparently right next to the auction completely. Due to the very time-constrained nature of the Grand Convocation compared to the amount of awesomeness you provided, this could be an issue. Another side effect of the awesomeness-to-time ratio was that people might not have seen the rules of the auction. I know I didn't see them until the second time I passed by. The first time, I also didn't more than glance at the items, and most of the other items seemed like they were very specific, but the ioun stone looked amazing.
A more interesting suggestion: to get more people able to participate in the auction of lower levels, you might consider tiered auctions (by which I mean Tier 1-5 auctions, Tier 3-7 auctions, etc). The starting bid of 4,900 was an incredible steal for that ioun stone (it could cast Liberating Command on you--that's awesome!), but some characters couldn't even have afforded the start price, or for a lower level character who could barely afford to pay 4,900 entirely out of prestige, it might have taken away their prestige being saved for a raise (since they have roughly similar costs). Even if I had not broken my bank on items right before the convocation and thus had more money to spend, there's no way a lower level character is going to be able to outbid a sufficiently-interested 12+ character. In fact, the only purpose that would have been served if I bid against the higher level characters is that they would win anyway but have to pay more, though I guess if I had more money than I did and was feeling extremely mean, I could have camped the auction at the last minute before 10 and bid a tiny amount more than the current high bid.
Of course, my suggestion just shrinks the problem but doesn't remove it, since the level 5s still rule the 1-5 auction and the same for all the high end characters. But at least a 5 will also be in the middle of a 3-7 auction and the low end of a 5-9 auction, so they will experience the auctions from different positions and have one type of auction they'll be good at.
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Thanks for the feedback. We have 10 new, unique items planned for Gen Con. Unfortunately, it is too late to get enough to break into different tiers. However, one of my post convention notes, I had already decided if we do create and auction off unique items in the future, they will be tiered exactly as you described.
As for advertising, I currently don't have a better idea than we used. For those who don't know, instructions in large font were listed on a 24"x36" board and placed on a tripod next to the table that all of the items were spread out on. We used artwork on the instruction board to help draw attention to it but apparently it didn't have the desired effect. If you have any suggestions of how to make it better for Gen Con, please let me know.
My wife and I were running new characters at the con, which took us out of the bidding. Otherwise, we could have bid using other characters. Also, we were trying to fit in all the other parts of the grand convocation. Needed more time!
Another option for boons, is what about tying some of them to PFS Scenarios purchased. So, if a person were to buy an entire season, it would unlock x boon. This is pushing the PFS Society locally, where those folks can't attend a con, for whatever reasons, but are playing PFS locally.
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Thanks for the feedback. We have 10 new, unique items planned for Gen Con. Unfortunately, it is too late to get enough to break into different tiers. However, one of my post convention notes, I had already decided if we do create and auction off unique items in the future, they will be tiered exactly as you described.
And that's why you're the man--because you already figured out the best part of my idea before I did!
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Don't forget a Tier 1 auction!
I'm not feeling the idea of buying all the scenarios for a season to open up a Race boon. That'll mean someone could buy all the scenarios haven't never played a PFS game and show up with a level 1 "<insert race here>".
Each star for a GM should open up a "tier" of races until you get to 4 stars, which opens up all the races legal to play. This would show a commitment to the community and furthering Pathfinder Society play.
I also like the 12-level option to open up a race for those unable to or unwilling to GM.
As for those going to Con, yeah unique items.
P.S. What's the PP for your own demiplane? Lol
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Thanks for the feedback. We have 10 new, unique items planned for Gen Con. Unfortunately, it is too late to get enough to break into different tiers. However, one of my post convention notes, I had already decided if we do create and auction off unique items in the future, they will be tiered exactly as you described.
As for advertising, I currently don't have a better idea than we used. For those who don't know, instructions in large font were listed on a 24"x36" board and placed on a tripod next to the table that all of the items were spread out on. We used artwork on the instruction board to help draw attention to it but apparently it didn't have the desired effect. If you have any suggestions of how to make it better for Gen Con, please let me know.
The table really needed a GM to answer any lingering questions. When my group first walked up to it, they were very leery to participate as all the other event tables had GMs and this one did not. Eventually we found you, and you answered our questions, but it was not immediately clear that we were welcome to participate.
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Thanks for the feedback. We have 10 new, unique items planned for Gen Con. Unfortunately, it is too late to get enough to break into different tiers. However, one of my post convention notes, I had already decided if we do create and auction off unique items in the future, they will be tiered exactly as you described.
As for advertising, I currently don't have a better idea than we used. For those who don't know, instructions in large font were listed on a 24"x36" board and placed on a tripod next to the table that all of the items were spread out on. We used artwork on the instruction board to help draw attention to it but apparently it didn't have the desired effect. If you have any suggestions of how to make it better for Gen Con, please let me know.
Mike,
I would suggest putting the Auction near the HQ table, separate from the Grand Convo. Besides it would have given others a chance to participate as well. Kinda where the D20 Boon Info Board was located at.
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Thanks for the feedback. We have 10 new, unique items planned for Gen Con. Unfortunately, it is too late to get enough to break into different tiers. However, one of my post convention notes, I had already decided if we do create and auction off unique items in the future, they will be tiered exactly as you described.
As for advertising, I currently don't have a better idea than we used. For those who don't know, instructions in large font were listed on a 24"x36" board and placed on a tripod next to the table that all of the items were spread out on. We used artwork on the instruction board to help draw attention to it but apparently it didn't have the desired effect. If you have any suggestions of how to make it better for Gen Con, please let me know.
On the Monday before GenCon (or earlier), in your PFS Monday Blog, advertise what exactly will be auctioned off. I know I'm going to be very focused at GenCon and will miss things just because I'm not looking for it.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I was one of the very last people to enter the room for the Grand Convocation, and by that time a great deal had already happened. I didn't even know there was an auction, but I only had a level 3 character and I was sure that I wouldn't be able to win anything. When the winners were announced, I noticed that one person seemed to win almost everything.
Maybe next year, having a map or a list of activities to look at would help. It was difficult to press through the crowded room just to see what was happening, and it took us some time to find what we wanted.
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... A more interesting suggestion: to get more people able to participate in the auction of lower levels, you might consider tiered auctions (by which I mean Tier 1-5 auctions, Tier 3-7 auctions, etc).
+1 alas I was priced out as a 2nd level.
I would suggest putting the Auction near the HQ table, separate from the Grand Convo. Besides it would have given others a chance to participate as well. Kinda where the D20 Boon Info Board was located at.
+1
On the Monday before GenCon (or earlier), in your PFS Monday Blog, advertise what exactly will be auctioned off. I know I'm going to be very focused at GenCon and will miss things just because I'm not looking for it.
+1 This would also apply to the various things happening at the tables (boasting contest, harrow, etc...).
I had three solutions/suggestions for the auction though I am not sure if it put in in the GC forum... . Guess what they were :)On another note,... never mind, I will put them in the GC thread. :)
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I was one of the very last people to enter the room for the Grand Convocation, and by that time a great deal had already happened. I didn't even know there was an auction, but I only had a level 3 character and I was sure that I wouldn't be able to win anything. When the winners were announced, I noticed that one person seemed to win almost everything.
Maybe next year, having a map or a list of activities to look at would help. It was difficult to press through the crowded room just to see what was happening, and it took us some time to find what we wanted.
Two people bought two items each. The other 6 were bought by 6 different people.
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That intelligent ioun stone is pretty sweet. Too bad some a-hole put an end to the auction by bidding 30k for it.
Yeah, I think there would have been way more than 5-6 bids if people had danced around at low prices instead of just being decisive. 30k means that a newly level 10 character who had 10k sitting in the bank and had never spent a single PP, earning every PP possible in every scenario, and used all the PP for the auction, they could barely afford 30,250 gold. That's what I mean by only the 12+ had a chance on the item, and why it wasn't really fair to say that just because there were few bids on the stone that there was little interest in it. Most people just couldn't afford to buy in. Now, some of the other items did have low interest. Honestly most of them were pretty niche.