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I ended up needing to use climb a lot in my current game and after looking at the rules I think some of the DCs are off.
I.E. DC 15 for both climbing a rope, and climbing up using only hands.
The same DC? Climbing a rope which uses both hands and feet seems much easier then lifting oneself with only one's hands.
An average person can climb a rope somewhat easily, yet DC 15 puts it in the difficult catagory.
Climbing a knotted rope is DC5 but an unknotted rope is 10 points more difficult? Certainly not, school kids have to do this, soldiers have to do this and math wise with taking 10,
10+ 0 str(+1 or +2 if soldier)+ 0 training= 10 (or 12 for a soldier)
A completely average person taking 10 can climb an unknotted rope so why is the DC 15? True it would tax endurance rather quickly, but not fast enough to make climbing 7-8 feet impossible without taking 20 untrained.
The wall DCs and such seem about right but the rope climbing DCs seem a category to hard.
Anyone agree or disagree? Why?
I agree with you, I think it is a bit wonky too.
I've never followed the suggested difficulty numbers with climb ... or with most skills honestly. I set a number that I feel is realistic and go with it. My players haven't complained about it yet. Probably because I'm not the kind of dick who jacks up difficulty numbers arbitrarily just because someone is good at it.
In short: Ignore the climb setup and assign your own numbers, no one at your table is going to complain unless you're way out of line.
I think the part about hands only is intended to be a special case for 1 single pullup not sustained climbing as in the other checks. Also I think you underestimate the ease of climbing ropes, that section of gym class was not as relaxing for some of us :p. Also also don't forget in your math that you can fail by 4 and not fall. One last also climb is in class for warrior and commoner so it would be very easy for an average npc statted level 1 person to get a +5 bonus your estimate of 0 is not realistic.
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I think the part about hands only is intended to be a special case for 1 single pullup not sustained climbing as in the other checks. Also I think you underestimate the ease of climbing ropes, that section of gym class was not as relaxing for some of us :p. Also also don't forget in your math that you can fail by 4 and not fall. One last also climb is in class for warrior and commoner so it would be very easy for an average npc statted level 1 person to get a +5 bonus your estimate of 0 is not realistic.
I am not adding the class skill bonus for this because,
3rd ed. was designed for the math to match reality (mostly got it) whereas PF added the class skill bonus so they could ignore the *4 skill ranks at first level(presumably for simplification) which is alright for a game but it assumes that the character spent that much training time on that skill when an average joe probably didn't (not all cases anyway).So class skill bonus works for checking someone who trained the skill, but not for someone who at most have climbed a ladder at some point in their lives.
The above statement is about the fact that untrained individuals could "take 10" and succeed on climbing a straight rope, but the DC would not only require them to be trained in order to be successful,it also says that most would find it impossible to succeed without rolling and then no more than 1/4 of the time.
The most experienced person on earth is at most level five, so with straight average stats, they would have +11(with skill focus) to +13 depending on strength training, now compare the table to what RL climbers do, and what you can do.
My basic training showed me lots of people doing these kind of things so I use that in my expectations of average, assuming 12 str to be average for soldiers. Very few would have enough trouble with a straight rope and none(in my group) fell(from getting 5 or more fail).
Look at Alexander's calibrating expectations for why my math works that way,
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-yo ur-expectations-2