I find myself looking for one of these every couple of years, just wondering if an archtype has popped up that will do it.
In a nut shell Full BAB and can change into one or more shapes via a polymorph effect without the need of magical items or other party members.
Wild Shape Ranger.
You talking about the shapeshifter archtype ?
Hmm, 8 levels of druid + shaping focus will get you all possible wild shapes at the cost of 2 BAB, after that you can go a full BAB class like barbarian, ranger or fighter and rock stuff in wild shape form?
Not any form that can hold weapons though (possibly the elementals).
prototype00
Hmm, 8 levels of druid + shaping focus will get you all possible wild shapes at the cost of 2 BAB, after that you can go a full BAB class like barbarian, ranger or fighter and rock stuff in wild shape form?
Not any form that can hold weapons though (possibly the elementals).
prototype00
Mmm not bad 4 druid/ 4 full BAB/ 4 druid/rest full BAB yeah the no weapons kinda sucks a bit. 8/12 isn't a great split either for a multiclass but I guess its an option.
Are there any non-wildshape options ?
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Alternatly Druid 4 Ranger 16 would give near perfect bab (19 at 20th), shaping focus would give you huge animal form (as a lvl 8 druid) and shapeshifting hunter would let you wildshape 8 times per day for a total duration of 32 hours.
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Alternatly Druid 4 Ranger 16 would give near perfect bab (19 at 20th), shaping focus would give you huge animal form (as a lvl 8 druid) and shapeshifting hunter would let you wildshape 8 times per day for a total duration of 32 hours.
That's a pretty good combo right there. It's even better when you realize that the Shapeshifter Ranger's shifting abilities actually STACK with wildshape bonuses. For example, you could choose the Aspect of the Bear, and then when wild-shaped you'd get the +4 from that to Str plus whatever bonus to Str you get from the wild-shape. Very very cool. I'm off to build up a character based on this right now... :-D
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Alternatly Druid 4 Ranger 16 would give near perfect bab (19 at 20th), shaping focus would give you huge animal form (as a lvl 8 druid) and shapeshifting hunter would let you wildshape 8 times per day for a total duration of 32 hours.That's a pretty good combo right there. It's even better when you realize that the Shapeshifter Ranger's shifting abilities actually STACK with wildshape bonuses. For example, you could choose the Aspect of the Bear, and then when wild-shaped you'd get the +4 from that to Str plus whatever bonus to Str you get from the wild-shape. Very very cool. I'm off to build up a character based on this right now... :-D
Actually, I don't think you'd get 32 hours, because Shapeshifting hunter only lets you add your Ranger level for the purposes of the number of times per day you can wild-shape, not for the duration. So I think you'd be limited to 8 hours (4 druid levels + 4 shaping focus). Still, not bad at all.
Actually, I don't think you'd get 32 hours, because Shapeshifting hunter only lets you add your Ranger level for the purposes of the number of times per day you can wild-shape, not for the duration. So I think you'd be limited to 8 hours (4 druid levels + 4 shaping focus). Still, not bad at all.Alternatly Druid 4 Ranger 16 would give near perfect bab (19 at 20th), shaping focus would give you huge animal form (as a lvl 8 druid) and shapeshifting hunter would let you wildshape 8 times per day for a total duration of 32 hours.That's a pretty good combo right there. It's even better when you realize that the Shapeshifter Ranger's shifting abilities actually STACK with wildshape bonuses. For example, you could choose the Aspect of the Bear, and then when wild-shaped you'd get the +4 from that to Str plus whatever bonus to Str you get from the wild-shape. Very very cool. I'm off to build up a character based on this right now... :-D
Unless my memory is faulty (unfortunately quite possible) wild shape lasts 1 hour per level. 8 times per day at 4 hours each (i'm not sure if focus adds to duration) makes 32 hours.
KQ 15 has a wildshape druid with no spells...but I don't recall if it's full BAB or not.
Very nice
I particularly like that ARG find with the elf and +1/2 level that actually makes that many forms ability pretty decent, so you get beast shape I at 5th, beast shape III with magical beasts at 8th and greater poly at 10th. and 1min/oracle lv non consecutative means you can have both utility and combat use.
(mmm this would seem to work for form of flame and form of water as well, although you still have to wait till 7th to start, but you start with ebody2 at 7th, ebody 3 at 8th and ebody 4 at 9th which is pretty slick)
I agree the Druid/Ranger also works pretty well if you go druid 4 and heavy ranger, shame there's not archtype that gives a +2 to elemental forms and -2 everything else like some of the animal archtypes but still pretty good.
Taskshaper looks fun , booking keeping looks...interesting ;) ,I guess that only if 3rd party stuff is allowed. Kinda reminds me of the warshaper a bit.
I recommend playing a fighter in a bear costume.
They want us to think they are bears.
It's just a man, It's just a man , IT'S JUST A MAN !
Very nice
I particularly like that ARG find with the elf and +1/2 level that actually makes that many forms ability pretty decent, so you get beast shape I at 5th, beast shape III with magical beasts at 8th and greater poly at 10th. and 1min/oracle lv non consecutative means you can have both utility and combat use.
(mmm this would seem to work for form of flame and form of water as well, although you still have to wait till 7th to start, but you start with ebody2 at 7th, ebody 3 at 8th and ebody 4 at 9th which is pretty slick)I agree the Druid/Ranger also works pretty well if you go druid 4 and heavy ranger, shame there's not archtype that gives a +2 to elemental forms and -2 everything else like some of the animal archtypes but still pretty good.
Taskshaper looks fun , booking keeping looks...interesting ;) ,I guess that only if 3rd party stuff is allowed. Kinda reminds me of the warshaper a bit.
Very doubtful that the oracle is supposed to affect abilities she doesn't have access to yet, I guess that anything that isn't written RAW goes, can't imagine it was ever the intention.
Very doubtful that the oracle is supposed to affect abilities she doesn't have access to yet, I guess that anything that isn't written RAW goes, can't imagine it was ever the intention.Very nice
I particularly like that ARG find with the elf and +1/2 level that actually makes that many forms ability pretty decent, so you get beast shape I at 5th, beast shape III with magical beasts at 8th and greater poly at 10th. and 1min/oracle lv non consecutative means you can have both utility and combat use.
(mmm this would seem to work for form of flame and form of water as well, although you still have to wait till 7th to start, but you start with ebody2 at 7th, ebody 3 at 8th and ebody 4 at 9th which is pretty slick)I agree the Druid/Ranger also works pretty well if you go druid 4 and heavy ranger, shame there's not archtype that gives a +2 to elemental forms and -2 everything else like some of the animal archtypes but still pretty good.
Taskshaper looks fun , booking keeping looks...interesting ;) ,I guess that only if 3rd party stuff is allowed. Kinda reminds me of the warshaper a bit.
Ok I just took this from APG page 9
***
Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits
only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1)
each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result
to the die roll, round down (minimum 0). For example, a
dwarf with rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap
sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the
alternate rogue favored class benefit; though this means
the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2
rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the
dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base
value from being a 20th-level rogue).
***
Rogue Trap sense is not gained until 3rd level, this excerpt uses an example of taking the favored class for 20 levels which includes 2 levels when the character does not have trap sense.
Thoughts in light of that ?
I say that the bonus is useless till you have the ability.
Wild Shape Ranger.You talking about the shapeshifter archtype ?
No, I think he means the 3E alternate ranger class that got wild shape in gimped form (keep in mind in 3E, combat style was only 3 feats; so in PF this would be a bigger sacrafice, for a significantly weakened wild shape ability, too).
What you did was take 5 or so levels of that, then went into the Master of Many Forms prestige class (Complete Adventurer) to gain new size and form options for your wild shape. I liked it; unlike with druid, you have practically no spells and a crappier animal companion, so you end up with a character almost completely focused on shape changing. Since 3E and Pf have no true shape changing focused base class, it was the best route to go if you wanted such a character.
...............................................
If you'd like, I recently created a Ranger archetype for Pathfinder to simulate the old 3E Wild Shape Ranger / Master of Many Forms build into a 1-20 base class. Including 3E wild shape rules, where it replaced your stats, not add/subtract from them, and you just plain got the monster's Ex attacks (and later on, Ex qualities), rather than picking from an arbitrarily made list.
I think aside from a few problem monsters that any reasonable group could handle (by nerfing or banning that monster as an option once it was found), the result is pretty balanced compared to synthesist summoner, which has full spellcasting, powerful summon options for when his main schtick goes fubar, and can obtain similar size and strength scores and AC at equivalent levels. And while he lacks the ultimate flexibility of my MoMF Ranger, he also doesn't have to choose between say... flight or pounce, he can have the BEST options via a la carte evolution selection available all the time, together, and supplement the more situational needs with the spells (especially the evolution surge ones).
Lol, saying something is balanced because it compares to the synthesist.
Lol, saying something is balanced because it compares to the synthesist.
Haha, I thought the same thing.
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Synthesist is straight-up weaker than the vanilla summoner, which is weaker than the Master Summoner.
So...
If you go with monstrous races, you could probably do it. Minotaur nets you a +6 BAB as a 4th level character. That gives you 2 points to play with for multiclassing, and the Strength bonus (+8 racial) partially carries over into wildshape (see polymorphing creature sizes in Magic). Minotaur 4 / Druid 8 = BAB +12. Toss in Shaping Focus and you wild shape as a 12th level druid. That gets you all wild shape forms, and quite a few uses per day and a good duration, complete with a +12 BAB. After that, run Barbarian 6 to finish out to 20th level with a +20 BAB, 12th level wild shape, increased speed and raging while in bestial form.
If you use the reducing CR rules as per monsters as PCs, you can slip a free level level of Oracle into the mix to get your rage cycling on.
Just on the Oracle with Dark Tapestry using the Many Forms ability, is there any way to cast economically while using either beast form I, III or greater poly.
The options I've come up with aren't great but I think work.
Eschew Materials sorts out Material components and can be taken whenever
The verbal is a little more tricky, either silent spell feat and using higher slot spells (maybe that trait to lower one particular spell would help here too)
Or meta magic rod of silent spell ,carry a few lesser and std ones, never a terrible investment anyway.
Or Find forms that can verbally speak a language which is a little easier once you get beast form III and can use magical beasts (although having a hard time working out which ones can and can't speak)
Finally the somatic components I'm guessing as long as you have at least 2 limbs with a similar appendage to a hand I assume making gestures isn't a problem.
Deaf Curse :)
Deaf
You cannot hear and suffer all of the usual penalties for being deafened. You cast all of your spells as if they were modified by the Silent Spell feat. This does not increase their level or casting time.
At 5th level, you receive a +3 competence bonus on Perception checks that do not rely upon hearing, and the initiative penalty for being deaf is reduced to –2.
At 10th level, you gain scent and you do not suffer any penalty on initiative checks due to being deaf.
At 15th level, you gain tremorsense out to a range of 30 feet.
Deaf Curse :)
Deaf
You cannot hear and suffer all of the usual penalties for being deafened. You cast all of your spells as if they were modified by the Silent Spell feat. This does not increase their level or casting time.
At 5th level, you receive a +3 competence bonus on Perception checks that do not rely upon hearing, and the initiative penalty for being deaf is reduced to –2.
At 10th level, you gain scent and you do not suffer any penalty on initiative checks due to being deaf.
At 15th level, you gain tremorsense out to a range of 30 feet.
That Sir is a fantastic idea
He I wonder if you could argue that since you lose Ex and Su abilities that rely on your original form that your deafness doesn't carry over to your polymorphed forms :P
Need to find that old thread about the deaf curse I think someone came up with a solution so it doesn't hamper you as much.
One way to get a lot of the polymorph effects and have a full base attack bonus is to play a full BAB bonus character and take leadership. Get yourself an alchemist cohort with infusion. The alchemist prepares your extracts in the morning, you use as needed.
One way to get a lot of the polymorph effects and have a full base attack bonus is to play a full BAB bonus character and take leadership. Get yourself an alchemist cohort with infusion. The alchemist prepares your extracts in the morning, you use as needed.
Nothing against the idea but my GM wouldn't let that fly ;), leadership is a feat best left out of character concepts where possible, because so many GM's curb or flat out ban it.
Absolutely. It would also work if someone else in the group is playing an alchemist. I find as a bomber alchemist, I often do not use most of my extracts.
Absolutely. It would also work if someone else in the group is playing an alchemist. I find as a bomber alchemist, I often do not use most of my extracts.
Its a fair point you make but as I said looking for ways that don't rely on magic items or other party memebers
Well I could get around being deaf if only Transcendental Bond was in Dark Tapestry instead of Nature GAH!
Or
A GM that doesn't make you roll randomly for Fiendish Herritage so you can select number 36 on the table
You can communicate telepathically with any sentient creature with which you are in contact.
you still have all the issues of being deaf but at least when within arms reach of another player in the party you can listen to the conversation filtered through their mind which could be interesting to RP :)
But then Tiefling doesn't get the +1/2 oracle level to one revelations and we're back to square one ! DAMMIT :P
what you can do is put one point in linguistics to get sign language and give your party a skill tax of said point in linguistics and then you can communicate without problems. take a second point for lipreading and you can understand anyone else as well.
Well telepathic bond is a potential target for permanency, helm of telepathy would still work.
By investing in Eldritch Heritage (arcane) you might gain a few sorcerer spells. If your GM allows you to get an improved familiar this way you could pick one with telepathy to function as a 'bridge' of communication.
In 3.5 there was a spell named lesser telepathic bond, allowing a bond with one creature for 10 min/level it was a cleric 3, wizard/sorcerer 3 spell, so maybe that is an option ?
Well telepathic bond is a potential target for permanency, helm of telepathy would still work.
mmm there are alot of mid game options that work but I'm struggling to find solutions below say 5th level , the lip read is an okay option coupled with a little hand waving (pun intended ;) )
Well telepathic bond is a potential target for permanency, helm of telepathy would still work.mmm there are alot of mid game options that work but I'm struggling to find solutions below say 5th level , the lip read is an okay option coupled with a little hand waving (pun intended ;) )
Well 7th level familiars have telepathy.. though with eldritch heritage that would take you back to level 9 again..
A familiar can still hear what companions say and use sign language and empathy to transmit the message to you though, might be fun rp wise too, a monkey would be a good starting familiar ;)
Well telepathic bond is a potential target for permanency, helm of telepathy would still work.mmm there are alot of mid game options that work but I'm struggling to find solutions below say 5th level , the lip read is an okay option coupled with a little hand waving (pun intended ;) )Well 7th level familiars have telepathy.. though with eldritch heritage that would take you back to level 9 again..
A familiar can still hear what companions say and use sign language and empathy to transmit the message to you though, might be fun rp wise too, a monkey would be a good starting familiar ;)
would have to be a raven or thrush as they're the only two that know at least 1 language, even then how much can a bird sign with its wings and offer through empathy.
still better than nothing at 3rd level
So far I think the Fiendish Heritage giving telepathy via touch at first level is really the only viable low level option
As to the deaf thing i thiink that is a class ability not a form ability therefore if you can use your class features then you are still deaf although i have no idea if thats RAW RAI or just wishful thinking.
As to the deaf thing i thiink that is a class ability not a form ability therefore if you can use your class features then you are still deaf although i have no idea if thats RAW RAI or just wishful thinking.
probably wishful more wishful thinking on my part ;)
slightly derailing my own thread
but I noticed the ARG Orc Witch uses CON for casting coupled with transmutation patron you get access to the vermin shapes beast shapes and dragon form,
but I get the feeling tyring to make that into a melee polymorpher would be the mother of all TRAPS ;)
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slightly derailing my own thread
but I noticed the ARG Orc Witch uses CON for casting coupled with transmutation patron you get access to the vermin shapes beast shapes and dragon form,
but I get the feeling tyring to make that into a melee polymorpher would be the mother of all TRAPS ;)
It would be a tough build, but if you get it right it could possibly be a better melee polymorpher than a druid, IMHO.
It would be a tough build, but if you get it right it could possibly be a better melee polymorpher than a druid, IMHO.slightly derailing my own thread
but I noticed the ARG Orc Witch uses CON for casting coupled with transmutation patron you get access to the vermin shapes beast shapes and dragon form,
but I get the feeling tyring to make that into a melee polymorpher would be the mother of all TRAPS ;)
Two things I worry about are attack bonus and power attack.
power attack won't scale well with 1/2BAB and the negative to attack kinda makes things worse for 1/2BAB.
tricky
What about an eldritch knight ranger (shapeshifter) 1/witch 5/eldritch knight X???
What about an eldritch knight ranger (shapeshifter) 1/witch 5/eldritch knight X???
Don't know if a witch would continue to gain patron spells if she started taking Eldrich Knight, and she dosen't get the first Beast Shape I until witch 6, so in the above option even if its possible won't get it until Char level 8