Besides the half elf spell, which I am still hesitant on, because it does alot more than just extra spells.
I think the other two aren't significant power creep options.
I disagree. The Elven Spellbinder will pretty much put the sorcerer out of business.
That said, I have to go with Option B.
But all three are abusive.
Doesn't seem to be much of a problem... this (like other problems) can be short circuited with a GM call of "no".
Come out of the box, black kitty...
I'd say none of them are a problem, personally. And frankly, it's nice to see sorcerers get something to play with for once - for the entire life of 3e and its various incarnations they've been the redheaded stepchildren of the arcane full caster world.
I'd say none of them are a problem, personally. And frankly, it's nice to see sorcerers get something to play with for once - for the entire life of 3e and its various incarnations they've been the redheaded stepchildren of the arcane full caster world.
Would you let non-half-elf sorcerers take this spell?
Or would you prefer that sorcerers only be half-elves in order to escape being, as you say, redheaded stepchildren?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd say none of them are a problem, personally. And frankly, it's nice to see sorcerers get something to play with for once - for the entire life of 3e and its various incarnations they've been the redheaded stepchildren of the arcane full caster world.Would you let non-half-elf sorcerers take this spell?
Or would you prefer that sorcerers only be half-elves in order to escape being, as you say, redheaded stepchildren?
I would let non-half-elf sorcerers take it, sure. Actually, the entire idea of racial restrictions on classes, feats, etc. is pretty ridiculous to me except in the cases where it actually does something with some racial ability (racial spell likes or whatever), and even then the requirement should be to have that ability, not be a specific race that has it.
Has anyone actually played this? Or is this still just conjecture?
Everybody's just taking 10 on theorycraft checks.
The idea of the Feat being one that you could take at 1st level seems appropriate, given the spell is supposedly augmenting your Human-ness, i.e. the Human bonus Feat.
Actually, the idea of Humans taking Racial Heritage: Half-Elf to be able to Cast the spell is doubly ridiculous on that account: they already HAVE a Racial Bonus Feat, any spell that replicated the Human Bonus Feat shouldn't 'stack' upon their already Human race.
I would let non-half-elf sorcerers take it, sure. Actually, the entire idea of racial restrictions on classes, feats, etc. is pretty ridiculous to me except in the cases where it actually does something with some racial ability (racial spell likes or whatever), and even then the requirement should be to have that ability, not be a specific race that has it.
I think similarly regarding racial restrictions.
I read through ARG and found it pretty balanced and fair.
These are the three 'highlights', and having such a thick book with so few highlights, I think it's a testament to the time they took.
I think the COD and Sorcerer are good additions and aren't overpowered. They help to balance the casters.
Also it was cleaned up before, option A isn't really all that good (imo).
So I'm actually happy with the additions. The only downside is we aren't discussing martial power creeps :(
Poor martials...
Has anyone actually played this? Or is this still just conjecture?Everybody's just taking 10 on theorycraft checks.
My sorcerer is going to try out paragon surge eventually, but it may be a month or two before I get to that level, mainly because one of our players is going to be very busy at work for the next week or so. But yay for choosing a half-elf sorc even before ARG came out. XD
Also another abuse you can do with the Half Elf spell is to get all the prereqs for spell perfection but don't take the feat. Now you can cast this spell and get a new perfected spell each time. Cast it twice and you can get perfect spell for any spell on the sorcerer/wizard list.
Interesting idea. Two notes: you can take spell perfection multiple times anyway. But I don't think you can stack multiple instances of a spell like that - the second casting of the spell supersedes the first casting, iirc.
I read through ARG and found it pretty balanced and fair.
These are the three 'highlights', and having such a thick book with so few highlights, I think it's a testament to the time they took.
I think the COD and Sorcerer are good additions and aren't overpowered. They help to balance the casters.
Also it was cleaned up before, option A isn't really all that good (imo).
So I'm actually happy with the additions. The only downside is we aren't discussing martial power creeps :(
Poor martials...
Technically, it's Samsaran COD and Half-elf SOB. =)
But I'm actually rather happy to see that there is no consensus on which is the most powerful of the options, and that alot of people are voting that there is no substantial power creep if any.
No you can only pick Spell Perfection once.[
Interesting idea. Two notes: you can take spell perfection multiple times anyway. But I don't think you can stack multiple instances of a spell like that - the second casting of the spell supersedes the first casting, iirc.
O_O You are right! Looks like there was an illegal character in my previous game then. XD
I read through ARG and found it pretty balanced and fair.
These are the three 'highlights', and having such a thick book with so few highlights, I think it's a testament to the time they took.
I think the COD and Sorcerer are good additions and aren't overpowered. They help to balance the casters.
Also it was cleaned up before, option A isn't really all that good (imo).
So I'm actually happy with the additions. The only downside is we aren't discussing martial power creeps :(
Poor martials...
If they are there to balance the casters, why are they only available to one race? Don't other races deserve to have balanced sorcerers?
I think C got the best deal, followed by B.
I don't think it is broken or OP though. It just looks better on paper than it really is.
They key for the cleric in 3.5 was the persistent spell(spells lasted for 24 hours) feat combined with the feat that allowed you to burn "turn undead" to power the metamagic slots you were using. Since turning undead sucked in 3.5 anyway, it was not a hard choice to make.
Now if that comes back codzilla might return, not in 3.5 form, but it would still be able to take over the melee spot most likely.
I do agree with other posters that race only in these contexts actually creates an issue. Yes, these aren't that big of a deal, but once you have internal class inconsistencies of such magnitude, then there's an issue.
Once someone is that much more versatile based simply on the race choice, that's problematic. Of course there's ones that aren't as good as others because of their make-up (bonus to an ability score). But this comes in the form of a spell limited to one race, nothing you can do as another race can make that up.
That is why every human sorcerer now has 1 auto-feat to take, no questions asked. Since others cannot benefit from it, it becomes a lot less likely. When that Elf Sorcerer is playing the same game as the Half-Elf, he's going to wonder what he did so wrong by picking the Elf that made him so much more useless in all those situational scenarios. He can't even fix it with a feat, which he would do if he could.
Yes, a Goblin sorcerer is going to pay a few more points and have a CHA 2 points less than you, but that's a bonus spell and a loss of one DC. He can make that up in feats and intelligent play. This simply cannot be 'made-up' and is a much larger differentiation in playability.
That is unfortunate imo.
I don't think it really makes that much of a difference. There will be times when the ability will be nice to have, but most people that play sorcerers well know which spells to choose anyway, so they won't be in a position where they are twiddling their thumbs. The ability to cast any arcane spell will allow them to cast the best spell, instead of just a spell that works in certain situations. It is not really a game changer though.
I respect your opinion. I might be wrong, and it is just a game.
I think I just like the idea that there are always races/classes that are the best at something, but others can make up for that by making some additional sacrifices. There are always some things one class/race will always do better, but I guess we differ on our view of the impact this spell has.