Hey everyone,
I'll be starting this AP for a group of 4 next Tuesday.
They were all meant to have had their characters made and emailed to me by now, but so far only my girlfriend has created hers...well, I created it for her as she's new to this, but she told me the concept and gave me a picture and a back story to work with. The stats I made for the character are below and I feel I've made a pretty good build for her, but it'd be nice if someone could say how likely they feel her character would survive as she's thinking she won't even get past level 6.
This is because in our usual games, that's the highest level we've ever reached, but I'm giving my usual GM a break this time so he can play for once.
Anyway, I pretty much know the party and they are as follows:
Class: Rogue - Roof Runner/Scout, Magus - Bladebound
HP: 10
AC: 17
Level: 1
Str: 14 +2
Dex: 16 +3
Con: 13 +1
Wis: 12 +1
Int: 16 +3
Cha: 8 -1
BAB: 0
CMB: 2
CMD: 15
Fort: 1 Ref: 5 Will: 1
Initiative: 5
Attack Bonus: 2
Ranged Attack Bonus: 3
Favoured Class: Magus - 1hp per level
Traits:
Magical Lineage - Shocking Grasp
Warrior of Old
Acrobatics: 7
Climb: 6
Disable Device: 7
Escape Artist: 7
Knowledge Arcana: 4 (7 when Magus)
Perception: 5
Sense Motive: 5
Spellcraft: 4 (7 when Magus)
Stealth: 10
Survival: 5
Swim: 6
Level 17:
Fort: 10 Ref: 13 Will: 10
Feats:
1. Rogue - Sneak Attack 1d6, Roof Running (Ex)
Feat - Skill Focus: Stealth
2. Magus - Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat
3. Magus - Spellstrike
Feat - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
4. Magus - Black Blade
5. Rogue - Evasion, Tumbling Descent (Ex), Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
Feat - Extra Magus Arcana - Close Range
6. Magus - Spell Recall
7. Magus - Bonus Feat
Feat - Intensified Spell: Shocking Grasp
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth
8. Magus - Magus Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
9. Rogue - Sneak Attack 2d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent: Nimble Climber
10. Magus - Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor
11. Magus - Improved Spell Combat
Feat - Critical Focus
12. Magus - Magus Arcana: Ghost Blade
13. Rogue - Scout's Charge (Ex), Rogue Talent: Expert Leaper
Feat - Lightning Reflexes
14. Magus - Fighter Training
15. Magus - Bonus Feat, Improved Spell Recall
Feat - Extra Magus Arcana: Accurate Strike
Feat - Weapon Specialisation
16. Magus - Magus Arcana: Devoted Blade - Holy, deals 2d6 damage to everything evil
17. Rogue - Sneak Attack 3d6
Feat - Extra arcane pool or toughness
Fighter type of some sorts - Friend A
Vanilla Barbarian - Friend B
Bard (Geisha) - Friend C
Now, the thing which probably stands out most is the fact there's no Cleric in the party.
The problem is that I don't usually DM/GM and last time I did, it was for a custom campaign where I said one of the people found a spoon of revival, sitting in an elixir of some sort. They stopped playing because of this, so I want to go by everything in the book this time around.
The point buy is 20 and I've said they can have any two traits as long as they're from the Pathfinder books.
An idea that came to mind was to add an almost unbeatable GM controlled Cleric to the party (that I was going to create with a focus on the highest AC possible), but I want the game to be a challenge and you have to prepare for enough already when GM'ing, so I've opted against this idea.
I was thinking I could get Father Zantus to heal them for a small fee or for free if they contribute funds to the church frequently. This would mean they'd be on their own while adventuring but as it seems they frequently return to the town of Sandpoint, I don't feel it'd be too much of a problem. I could however, be very wrong.... :p
So, I just wondered if you had any suggestions on that front and also, as RotRL's seems pretty much like a sandbox styled AP, how would I keep people together, guiding them to the next location needed to progress through the story line, when the decision is up to them on where they go?
If they jump from point 1 in the town to point 50, what's the easiest way to deal with that, or is the only way to deal with it flicking through the PDF over and over again until you get to the right section?
As for the conversion issues between the old edition and Pathfinder, I don't find that too much of a problem as I know spot means perception and things that I'm unsure of, I can sort out on the fly.
Anyway, if you have any other tips aside from my concerns above, feel free to post them here. :)
Thanks very much!
With this AP, as a GM, you are going to have to manage some very dangerous encounters (The whole AP can be a bit of a Meat-grinder).
One thing to remember, since it is a 3.5 AP, you should use te "Fast" progression for the heroes - else they will fall behind the expected level curve. Treasure, especially magic treasure, is not great but it should be adequate for the character's needs.
Also, while Thassilon is meant to be “mysterious”
I do think that the AP goes overboard on this. Making Brodert Quink a little more knowledgeable about it (just not to much, and with some mis-information) would not be a bad thing. Another idea here would be to give anyone who actually takes Thassilonian as a language a sizable bonus to any Knowledge rolls about Thassilon, as I feel that the DCs of these rolls are a little too high if the language survives (even as a dead/scholarly language).
Burnt Offerings
The Skinsaw Murders
I will add more when I get back home.
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You could have Zantus give the party a wand of CLW (or #/day CLW item of some kind) as a reward for helping with the goblins.
Our experience was mixed compared to the above - they did well against Erylium (who can't really do much damage), fled Malfeshnekor, they were easily TPK'd by an unaltered Xanesha as a 6 character party (and turned into charm zombies, and forced to work on her gambling barge near Turtleback Ferry before they escaped when the barge was sunk). They just managed to kill her at 10th level and she nearly killed the big bad fighter in the process--never mind a 6th/7th level group.
She'd be tough enough as a vanilla Lamia Matriarch given the terrain advantages.
My PCs didn't have much problem with the Ghouls because at that level, the channelling really isn't doing that much (7 or 10.5 damage average, save for half with good Will saves plus channel resistance just isn't much compared to fireball or what a barbarian can churn out). I'd be more worried once they get into the ogres because they can hit and especially crit hard so the fights could get pretty swingy without a healer, depending on how the GM rolls.
A cleric isn't super-duper essential if you have a bard, ranger, or paladin in the party. Give one of the bad-guy divine spellcasters a nearly-fully-charged wand of cure light wounds. The bad guy may use it on him/herself once or twice, but it's mostly there for the PCs to find. Since the spell is on the bard, ranger, and paladin spell lists, any one of them can use it normally.
Once they get a bit higher level, do the same thing, but with a wand of cure moderate wounds. Also be sure that many of the bad guys have potions of cure light/moderate/serious wounds, and that they always seem to get killed before they can drink them!
Once they get to Magnimar, they can easily buy other curative potions, such as lesser restoration, delay poison, and shield of faith.
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Rogue/Magus
Healing...
The Sandpoint writeup...
Hey, welcome to the Runelords forum! My first piece of advice would be to scour this thread for all the advice, campaign journals, community created content and questions you can find. A thriving forum of likeminded GMs is quite possibly the best resource you'll ever have to work with. I know I thought so. I think a lot of what makes Runelords so popular is the five years or so of awesome threads in this forum. Be sure to use em.
I've got a few pieces of advice for you... First, and this might be a bit presumptuous, but it's the first thing that jumped out at me... That character looks way too complex for a new player, and doesn't strike me as a particularly strong multiclass to begin with. Given that it's a low level game, the build isn't so important, and I think not having something so rigid to follow will really help your girlfriend take control of her character. I'd suggest she stick with a single class, and make her own choices (with a bit of help) as the adventure progresses.
Second, I don't think the lack of healing is a HUGE problem in the early adventures. For the most of Burnt Offerings the PCs won't be far from sandpoint (where they should be able to get one or two healing spells for free.) The first time the players stray far from help is in the Catacombs, and I personally think that the catacombs encounters are a little on the easy side (assuming you have Erylium flee rather than pointlessly flit about taking pot shots at the PCs...) and once the PCs head to Thistletop they'll probably be accompanied by Shalelu (who has a wand of cure light wounds and can do the bulk of the partys healing). Furthermore, Sandpoint has its own Potion shop, so make sure your PCs know it's there, and make a point of giving them enough gold to stock up on healing potions.
As for using the Sandpoint writeup, know this: Your PCs are never going to see most of those locations. What's more, they'll probably just frequent a few places that they visit as part of the AP (such as the rusty dragon and the vinder general store). The first thing you want to do as the GM is to GIVE YOUR PLAYERS THE SANDPOINT WRITEUP. Or at the very least, give them a list of the various businesses in town. There's a great labeled map on the community created content sticky that should make figuring out the town a bit less of a headache. I'd dig it up, if I were you.
Now for one more bit of advice that helped me immensely. Draw up or print out your own copy of each area map (the glassworks, thistletop, etc) and make a few notes of your own. Check the perception DCs for your monsters to hear the sounds of battle in other areas (noting the penalties for distance and hearing through walls). Scribble down the monster's morale and tactics. Note any relevent conditions or rules such as the squeezing rules, acrobatics and climb DCs and darkness, and label where the treasure and enemies are found. It'll be a LOT easier than flipping through the PDF and let's you make the encounters a lot more dynamic, and the moment you write "Round #1, Hide pickles, Round#2, Throw Javelins" you will feel warm and fuzzy inside. Or at least I did.
Good luck with your game!
Thanks for all of the advice guys!
@Twigs - I worked out the damage before all of this and the Magus/Rogue is actually a pretty good build I feel. :)
If Spell Combating at level 17, the damage will be something along the lines of 3d6 (Sneak Attack) + 10d6 (Intensified Shocking Grasp) + 1d10 + 2 + 1d10 + 2 + 1d10 + 2 without criticals or any mods to her weapon or Strength.
That equals to 114 max damage without a critical per round. :)
The idea is to use the Bladebound sword mods to get a Furious, Keen + speed weapon much faster, while getting gloves of dueling for when the Magus can class half his/her Magus level as a Fighter level and then add the Shocking Burst and Holy properties to the weapon via the Magus' Arcane Pool. :)
Her combat will consist of Spell Combat, Spell Strike, Full Attack. :)
I agree that it may be confusing to her at first, but I asked her what she wanted and she stated "A stealthy and Acrobatic character who doesn't have to be very strong but can output decent damage and use Magic at about the same skill level he can wield a Sword."
I purposely gave her a Chain Shirt for armour so she can survive longer and she seemed to be getting the hang of things fairly fast when I was explaining how to use this guy. I asked if she'd be okay with this and she said she'd probably pick it up fast, which I won't put past her as she gets the top grades in College all of the time. :D
As for the session, I don't think they'll get out of Town on the first night we play, because last time I attempted this, we all focused too much on the Festival (which I made a tonne of awesome games for), but this is my proper attempt at getting back into it, so hopefully they can get far this time.
I'll possibly throw in more potions and wands of healing, but I wouldn't want to do it in such a way that it'd be out of character for the characters they're against, to hold such items.
I could create random little events such as Goblins throwing a wand at each other, then they either run off or the PC's fight them and find out it's a healing spell that one of the Goblins accidentally cast on a recently KO'd dog that then gets up and chases them.
I dunno, something random like that, but I want the Players to know that things are dangerous in the campaign, though I doubt it'd make any of them want to play a Cleric anytime soon.
I usually help draw maps for the current campaign I play in, before our sessions as I don't meta-game, so I'm used to the drawing part already. :p
The Bard player isn't playing a Bard now and everybody who was meant to have emailed me their characters have still not bothered, so at this rate because we're playing on Tuesday, I'll just keep things how they are and depending on how well they play will depend on how many bonus rewards I decide to give them as I think that's fair, but I can't be too mercilessly, else it'll compromise the whole party and they'll all die. :/
I'll definitely have to look over
I have another topic a few lines below this one that has my
Also, can
I dunno, something random like that, but I want the Players to know that things are dangerous in the campaign, though I doubt it'd make any of them want to play a Cleric anytime soon.
Your players are crazy. The Cleric Class (and the Druid class) are many kinds of AWESOME. (It was called CoDzilla for a reason.)
Spoiler:Elyrium
actually kill the party or is she just a useless encounter? :/
No. She can only actually kill a party that is stupid. However, Player Characters can often get stubborn.
She is not "useless" so much as "optional." Her actual role is to help teach good tactics to players.
Ah, handy. :p
In that case I may as well have her do her thing until she gets bored, then!
As for Clerics, I'm playing a Noble Charming Cleric in Kingmaker at the minute (who I modelled after Lelouch Lamperouge from Code Geass) and he's dropping things left right and center when the party are distracting all enemies.
Last session around 1 and a half thousand baby spiders came after us as a swarm because one of the PC's stumbled across their nest and none of us could do anything about it, so I cast create water 20 feet above them and killed them all with fall damage from 6 gallons of water...
Then four Undead types kept respawning every time we killed them, so my guy got annoyed, stepped forward and cast channel positive energy for 10 damage, dropping them all instantly and that resolved that fight. :p
Then, in combat, I told a guy to murder his ally (who was flanking my ally) and he crit his friend, outright killing him in one swoop and then I told another of the enemies to fall to the floor...which he did, only for the Fighter to demolish his prone, conscious party in one hit.
I'm saving charm for a guard or something, so I can hopefully get him to coup de grace his boss (the guy we need to kill) during his sleep, where he'll then bring back the head as proof. That'd be boss fight over in a very interesting way. :D
Anyway, the point of my ramble is that I hated Clerics, but actually I love this character I currently play as and he follows his own ideals too, so you can have fun with a Cleric....and we have a proper Cleric in the party now too, so I can focus on my manipulation and leadership more (I lead from the back....which I don't think party members like, but that's how it's gone down as my guy's a tactician in mind and body) whilst the group can benefit from two healers if they really need to.
I think once you leave Sandpoint in this campaign, things might get interesting in the first Dungeon. I'm really looking forward to playing
I know you said you were starting this for them next tuesday, but with the anniversary edition coming out with all the updates and modifications etc next month, were you going to try to move to that book when it comes out?
I mention that because your PCs will be playing as the full pathfinder version, and all the bad guys in the original RotRL are 3.5 (and actually based on CR a bit lower level than they should be). This could be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on your party. Advantage due to lack of healer monkey, but disadvantage in they could have an easier time of your monsters than you originally thought.
Then developers also talked about additional content, just thought I'd throw that out there.
@CaroRose - Ah right, yea. I would have thought additional content would have been added as it makes reworking the AP more worthwhile. Though, even if the creatures are currently underpowered, some of those which have already been mentioned still sound overpowered.
As it stands though, I can't afford anything right now, so I decided quite early on that I'd work with the original content as I actually have that.
@PJackson - Really? I thought that was pretty good, especially with a x3 Crit Card on the already powerful 10d6 Shocking Grasp. By that point her crit range should be 17-20 so I'd say it's fairly decent.
Still, it can't beat my Barbarian that could wield a Gargantuan weapon and deal around 757 damage with three attacks that were all criticals. I think his normal damage averaged at about the 200 mark, so considering a lot of creatures Hit Points aren't higher than 300 usually, I'd say that's pretty good, but then I'm not an optimiser, so there's always going to be someone out there with a better build. :)
My usual GM today told me to keep the treasure as it states in the book and not give fast treasure to the party, as it's easier and faster to do it as it's written, meaning everyone can get more game time in and less confusion is around.
Also, Xanesha looks really confusing to use, but I think I should have a look through the GM Created Content as it'd be quite nice if I could find a picture of what the top of her tower looks like. :)
Ah, I just checked
To make this campaign more unique, should I keep this crit range so the player who receives it will have a unique weapon because it may be cool and add to their survival rates.
Also, I was half tempted to make her Sword cursed, just because of how evil its owner had become and what she had done with it would leave negative effects in a world where Sin can manifest itself into power.
Edit: Also, if she used Shatter, would it not destroy all of her own items as well as the party members...unless she made her save? XD
Edit: Also, if she used Shatter, would it not destroy all of her own items as well as the party members...unless she made her save? XD
I'd give the spell another read over. The AoE shatter can only target glass objects, whereas the targeted version is the only one that can destroy equipment (and only a single piece.)
How far did everyone get before that happened? :p
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We got to the end of Skinsaw before the one and only TPK (we're in FotSG now) but I decided that since it was coming, I would run it exactly as it is in the book and have a plan for what to do with the players after. I'm pleased with how it turned out.
Out of curiosity, what was your plan (for those of us who have yet to run it, but will)?
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The point form version is:
- Once she realized the PCs are no challenge (i.e. right away), X switches to nonlethal damage to take prisoners. I had one guy who wasn't at the game that night and they found him already captured in X's nest to make sure there are no survivors. Collect character sheets.
- The party incapacitated, she uses her wisdom drain to keep them at 1 Wis then uses suggestion and charm to enslave them
- She then finishes what she wanted to do in Magnimar (or leaves if she determines that the PCs ha.ve blown her cover as mine did) and leaves, bringing the PCs with her
- The PCs work on her gambling barge out of Turtleback Ferry for a year or two, and are tattooed with the Sihedron Rune. They live as charm zombies and remember little from this time. There is no Leucretia in this version of events.
- One of the other charm zombie slaves breaks down mentally and sets himself and the barge on fire one night when it's out on the lake.
- Xanesha waves goodbye to the party who is locked in the hold below as the barge is sinking. The barge has some of their adventuring gear decorating the main lounge but they can't really reach it.
- When the cold lake waters hit their legs, they wake from their state of living death and can act. Return new character sheets with 1 Wis, no gear and clothing.
They have no spell slots ready and everyone has 1 Wis. The party escapes by one of three ways:
- 1) forcing their way out of the locked area in the bottom
- 2) ripping up a bench and using a nail to jimmy the lock on the door
- 3) waiting until it sinks and swimming out of a hole that the fire made in the forward part of the barge
- Get to shore with nothing (or next to it)
- Fight some kobolds in the shimmerglens with clubs and cantrips, sneak around to Turtleback Ferry, rest, return to the barge to retrieve their gear, find that much of it has been taken by boggards, kill the boggards and find that about half of their stuff is gone but they make up the wealth in other salvage from the barge and the boggards
- Then, they are where they need to be for the next part of the adventure and are well placed to be asked by the townsfolk to look into why the rangers are silent all of a sudden
My notes with maps of the barge and PC handouts are detailed here and in the next dozen or so posts:
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2zie&page=2?GoBs-RunelordsKingmaker-mashup- campaign-Spoilers#69
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Interesting set of events GoB!
Xanesha was an amazing encounter. Two characters died fighting X in my campaign, but the TPK was avoided by the collapse of the Clock Tower. Xanesha grabbed most of her stuff and flew away. The party did have Fly spells and was able to escape the collapse with their dead comrades. A couple of weeks later Xanesha did try to sneak in and kill the Lord Mayor, but the party intercepted her. No one died in the second encounter with X. But X managed to escape again. I have suspended my RotR campaign waiting for the new book and miniatures before I start up again with the Hook Mountain Massacre. I am looking forward to having the party face X again. They will be higher level, so they should be able to handle her.
Every once in a while, having an encounter that could easily be a TPK makes for intense adventuring. Sometimes, it is up to the DM to come up with a way for the party to survive. TPKs should be avoided IMHO. My way was saying that the fight with Scarecrow structurally damaged the Clock Tower to the point that by the time the party was fighting X, the Tower was starting to fall.
Later,
Mazra
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Mazra,
To continue on, X was waiting in Leucretia's spot in the Ft. Rannick prison and that was almost a TPK (despite being a level or two later), but for a lucky critical hit that caused her to retreat to heal while the PCs also retreated, losing her in the Lizard Warrens.
She moved to the high tower in the keep and joined the fight against the Kreeg bosses in the top of the keep and there was almost a TPK there too, the players killed everyone but X and the sorceress ogre, whatever her name was. The party fled and lost them in the Lizard Warrens, the ogress left to the clanhold and she went to wreck the Dam.
She was finally with the Demolition Crew atop the Dam and even with the party getting the drop on her, *that* was really close and a draw that ended with her Dimension Dooring away and escaping.
She met her end when she came in riding the Red Dragon at the beginning of FotSG, someone burned a Hero Point to cast a Dimensional Anchor on her and she got surrounded and finally and ultimately killed, at character Level 10 with 6 PCs in attendance.
As written with my group, she was a TPK at 5th/6th level, pretty much the same at 7th/8th and was finally mortal at 10th with a party that had been preparing resources for her for half their careers.
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I would suggest that if no one plays a cleric, play a GM run cleric. If the players are running with 20 pt buy make the cleric with 15 or 17. Give him/her some type of strange disorder like maybe he was touched by the gods and is somewhat idiotic (derrrr, which way do we go George?), make sure his spell list is mostly heal/recover stat damage/protection- type spells and don't let the PCs dictate his spell choices for the day. Mostly inept in combat, make sure he is doing lower than average damage and not hitting often. The party handles the monsters, the cleric will patch them up and help with undead and prot from XXX, but not much else.
GMPCs are sometimes necessary but need to remain a very much background PC.
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As written with my group, she was a TPK at 5th/6th level, pretty much the same at 7th/8th and was finally mortal at 10th with a party that had been preparing resources for her for half their careers.
Awesome stuff GoB. I'll bet X is well remembered amongst your players. It is those kinds of memories that makes D&D/Pathfinder such an incredible game.
I look forward to sharing X's ultimate demise from our campaign. Thanks for sharing.
Mazra
Okay, so one of the players will only be able to make it sometimes, meaning there will be three characters at least every session.
Now, because this is built for 4 players, I figured on the times the 4th player isn't there, I'd have a GM controlled character who shouldn't take too much away from the group as he's literally just for comic relief and support.
Race: Human
Level: 1 - 7 Channels
HP: 14
AC: 26
Str: 13
Dex: 7
Con: 14
Wis: 16
Int: 7
Cha: 18
Feats: Toughness, Selective Channeling
3. Shield Proficiency
5. Shield Focus
7. Extra Channel
9. Fleet
11. Extra Channel
13. Fleet
15. Extra Channel
17. Extra Channel
+1 HP Per Level
+1 Full Plate +9 AC, 50lb's
+1 Tower Shield +4 AC, 45lb's
ACP: -12
Traits:
Defender of the Society - +1 AC
Accelerated Drinker
Items:
+1 Ring of Protection
+1 Amulet of Natural Armour
Racial Trait: Heart of the Wilderness
At Level 5 - 7 channels
HP: 60
AC: 28 (Dex up by 1 and Shield Focus)
GP = Nothing. This guy is in debt and on the run, getting drunk whenever the opportunity arises.
Swaying Movement (Not so Sp): Brik Wahl will always move side to side during and out of combat.
Narcolepsy: Brik Wahl will randomly fall asleep at any moment.
Before Combat: Brik Wahl attempts to jump in his armour, shouting "Do I owe you money? NO?! THEN BOOZE, WANT MORE!"
During Combat: Drinks Ale every round, barely staying conscious, waiting for somebody to take damage so he can obsessively, compulsively heal them.
Special: Will sometimes run at opponents, screaming "WEEEEEEE!!!" out of excitement if he's hyper or "MOOOOOOOOOOOORE!!!" if he senses Alcohol on them.
Before Healing: Brik shouts "CHANNEL 1!" - This goes up when his Channel Dice increase.
After Healing: Brik shouts "HURRY UP AND GET HURT! I WANT TO HEAL YOU JUNKIES!!!!
Lol, wonderful.
Maybe that's me trolling for payback against their hatred towards Clerics. This guy won't help that hatred clear, I feel. :p
Haha, well I've finished this guy off now, giving him the Healing and Travel Domains, making him follow his own ideals but heavily believe in Cayden Cailean AND....he's Chaotic Good.
Should be fun as he's drunk, stupid and obnoxious. I'd think most people would hate hate him, especially as he's going to be fairly rude, only caring about drink, butting in on any opportunity. So, I guess this guy will be a good distraction where enemies should focus their attention on him. His AC should hopefully keep him alive, too. An unkillable helper would be fun. :p
Given him the spells; Detect Magic, Read Magic, Virtue, Compel Hostility, Cure Light Wounds and Cure Light Wounds (Domain).
He doesn't need Create Water as he'll be drunk and dehydrated ALL OF THE TIME. I guess that could have been the thing that made him stupid in the first place, though I dunno how to determine how well he can speak with an intelligence of 7, so I'm thinking I'll just go with he slurs his words all of the time and does everything without thinking.
His base speed stays the same due to the Travel Domain and will go up to 40 feet when he gets fleet (twice) later on.
I would strongly advice checking the listed CR of sub-bosses and bosses aginst sources like the monster manual. I've found that a fair number of the listed CRs are a bit too low for everything those bosses can do.