So today one of my players, an Chelish inquisitor of Asmodeus, makes the following comment in the following context.
The party's rogue have just finished snooping around in a place of interest, and as they ponder their next actions the inquisitor makes the following statement:
"We need to better organize our ressources. Lorastine (the rogue) should have had the invisibility potion, in case things went sour. It wont be long until I can turn invisible, but as I said, Lorastine should have it"
I decided this was a pretty arrogant and entitled statement by the character, despite the fact that it was probably just a brainfart on behalf of the player. Nevertheless, it was said in character, so I instantly grabbed it, seeing the opportunity to poke the inquisitor a bit and make him understand the forces he is dealing with. The next time they were in a fight, the inquisitor called on Asmodeus, but immediately felt a pang of pain and a heard a muffled echo of himself, claiming that soon he'd have the power to turn invisble. He then proceeded to try to cast spells, but his prayers were not answered. Only once the battle was over and he was not under duress was he able to cast the light spell, and only then after a full round of prayer, rather than a standard action's worth.
This is my way of showing that the prideful asmodeus does not approve of his attitude. That the Inquisitor should not take the boons of Asmodeus for granted.
Now I've decided to let the player suffer under this effect he can appease Asmodeus again. I don't want it to be a grand undertaking, because I think the Inquisitor only did Asmodeus a small slight.
So I was wondering: Do you guys have any ideas of what I could have the inquisitor do, to appease his disdainful god? I don't want it to be a quest, where I railroad him to a specific solution and if he comes up with a way on his own, then that'd be awesome. Still, I'd love to have some ideas ready that I could use next gamesession, that he may show he appreciated the miracles of Asmodeus.
The players are currently in Magnimar...
XXSPOILERSXX
...and are soon to be on their way to the belltower in the shadow. Any ideas of what he could do?
Thanks in advance
-Nearyn
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A good old ritualistic sacrifice to appease the evil god sounds right to me. Capture an enemy in battle, set up an alter, light a few candles, rub down the sacrifice in some unholy oils, spill his blood with an atheme and pray until asmodeus takes the offering. The whole thing should IMO take between 1 and 6 hours and cost an average of 1 to 2 hundred gold for all the ingredients. After its completed id say he's all good with his sadistic evil god
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A devotee of Asmodeus behaving in a confident leaderly take-charge manner? Seems to me like Asmodeus would be *pleased* at his attitude...
He's a diety associated with pride, after all, and many Chelish NPCs seem to be excessively prideful (without getting smited for it). Just as it's okay for a devotee of the goddess of lust (Calistria) to be lustful, or devotees of the god of drunken revelry (Cayden) to engage in some drunken revelry, I'd say that a worshippers of the god of pride acting prideful, overbearing and / or overconfident is *exactly* appropriate.
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So an inquisitor of Asmodeus is making tactical suggestions and telling other players what they should be doing and Asmodeus has a problem with this or does he have a problem with his inquisitor having pride in his abilities? I suppose if you're the god of pride you need to have followers that are meek and humble. Because nothings says "Asmodean" like meek and humble.
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I'm not sure a penalty is in order here. Asmodeus is a lawful being, and putting the group before the individual fits his ethos. Further, the evil dieties definitely want people to know that their followers get power. Go ahead, brag about the spells and other benfits you get. Spread the word. That's the real attraction to worshipping an evil diety, after all. You sell your soul into eternal damnation so that you can do things like turn invisible and smite anyone you like with the evil power granted by Asmodeus. Perhaps the player should have said, "I don't need this. The might of Asmodeus flows through me! His power can easily duplicate that of a simple magic potion. Let Lorastine use it instead. He is bereft of such gifts. Besides, it would make achieving my goals, and Asmodeus' glory, that much harder if he was caught." Regardless of the wording, I think evil dieties have thick skins and expect that some of their followers don't like what they have to do. That's all right, as long as they obey and do it anyway.
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If anything I think the Inquisitor of Asmodeus should be getting the back of Asmodeus's hand for not bragging enough about what Asmodeus will grant him. Instead of "It won't be long until I can turn invisible" he should have said "For soon the great and powerful Asmodeus will grant upon me the boon of invisibility, and due to his great powers I shall no longer need puny potions, so let the rogue have it."
I'm kind of confused as to why the character is being punished by Asmodeus. In my opinion, the inquisitor was well within his right to bring up the need to be more efficient with the allocation of their resources. In fact, that seems to fit the Lawful aspect of Asmodeus. His statement really to me was just to assure that when adventuring, the group takes the most ordered and efficient way of doing it.
Secondly, seems like a harsh punishment for something as innocuous as saying "We should be more prepared next time." I don't see it as being prideful or even taking his deity for granted. Actually I see it as the opposite, telling the group that his patron's boons can only do so much and therefore, they should better allocate resources. At that point, I can see the case being made that his faith in Asmodeus isn't great enough and thus, he has slighted his god. But even then, I think that might be stretching it. I think that you should let it go.
Imagine a similar scenario, where a cleric of healing says, "We should gather some healing potions for this adventure, as my abilities to heal are limited. I will be able to heal more soon, but in the meantime, we should have more potions." Is he being prideful? Or disdainful of his deity? Should he be punished? Or, is he simply being pragmatic about the dangers ahead?
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With different wording, I could *totally* see Asmodeus getting pissy about it.
If he'd said something like, 'Asmodeus has failed to provide me with the ability to turn invisible yet, but I will force him to so empower me shortly, so I don't need the potion.' I could see Asmodeus being a bit peeved. (On the other hand, that's how some real world religions have worked, with priests flat out *ordering* their gods to answer their boons...)
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You know, I'm with you here, Nearyn, I like that you gave Asmodeus a little personality. It may not be for everyone, but I love that you are making this Golarion god your own.
You know, I'm with you here, Nearyn, I like that you gave Asmodeus a little personality. It may not be for everyone, but I love that you are making this Golarion god your own.I actually didn't realize it was a Golarion god. I thought he was just talking about the old pencil sketch of the devil from the 1e MM. That's who I was talking about anyway.
Well, I gathered he was speaking specifically of the Golarion god when he mentioned it was a Chelish Inquisitor.
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I rather like OP's anecdote. I was expecting a "my players got pissy that I took something away" thread, but this is good. I like roleplay.
OP, keep in mind that a good deity will shape his servants into good and loyal slaves. Building a shrine (maybe an expensive one) or an Atonement spell (with sacrifice) would suffice "as a reminder", and the PC will respect his relationship with his deity more. Well done.
If you really want to turn it up now, or at some point in the future, have a servant or avatar of Asmodeus appear, and compel the PC to beg to show his loyalty to his god. Thinking he will be given a quest, the PC may indeed beg. Once he begs, the avatar may command him "then fall on your sword". If the PC shows he's willing to DIE for Asmodeus on command, he may be given a quest with a potentially great reward.
Idea comes from Flash Gordon:
http://www.hark.com/clips/wytxlzgbql-fall-on-your-sword
(Prince Thul did not get a reward for falling on HIS sword.)
But all of this is done (of course) in the interest of fun and creating a rich gaming world for your players.
The 1st ed MM is how I still imagine the old boy looking. Asmodeus thinks the new, hip, edgy gods look like fools.
Me too, Ciaran.
Keep in mind that Asmodeus is the deity of Evil on what, at least THREE campaign worlds that we know of? That's a lot of Evil to keep track of. Add-in the fact that he's a True God who plays his arch-devil lords off against one another and you've got one bad mo-fo.
To me this just seems to be the reverse of the age old case of the Paladin being picked on for not being lawful good enough.
Besides being inappropriately applied, since Inquisitors are supposed to have more leeway than Clerics and Paladins, it's not exactly what I'd call fun loosing your abilities at the whims of the GM.
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This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.
This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.
Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.
However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".
I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.
I generally assume Gods don't pay too much attention to specific followers until they actually come calling for a Miracle or something.
I agree with the players that say this would put them off playing divine casters in your campaign.
I think Asmodeus would have been proud, not angry.
Oh... Eek. I am really, reeaaahhheeaaaallly truly and firmly in the camp of everyone that says 'don't do anything'. If it was a different god I would maybe say do something. Maybe. Still probably not, though. For one thing, I guess I don't understand the problem with what he said. He was giving constructive advice, and whether or not it was the character or the player that had a brain-fart, it affected the players, so it should be handled in-character.
Asmodeus's whole dig is that he's lawful, and respects contracts. Oftentimes inquisitors, clerics, etc are in a sort of contract with Asmodeus. Give me powers, and I will give you my soul. His only other dig is that he's prideful, and he expects his worshipers to be prideful too. He expects them to flatter him, but takes it with a grain of salt for what it is, pure flattery.
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I guess where you're coming from can be argued (there is plenty of logic to it), but I did do a bit of a double take when you said Asmodeus was upset about his actions - I thought, as others have expressed, that what he was doing was actually in line with Asmodeus' doctrine. It seems the whole situation in Cheliax (i.e., everyone claiming that Hell serves Cheliax) would be difficult to have if Asmodeus was as touchy about his followers making demand from him as you've interpreted him to be.
That being said, the way you've read into it seems perfectly fine too. I wouldn't do anymore than you've already done though for fear of frustrating your player. To lose your class abilities, the things your character is supposed to be able to do, over an OoC slip of the tongue is a bit harsh. If your player is cool with it for now, super, but I really wouldn't push that sort of thing and would allow it to resolve quickly.
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Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.
However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".
I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.
That sounds like the most asinine GM on the planet. I wish I could say so to his or her face, too (online writing is too detached for something that deserves a good punch in the face). Your Paladin did exactly what was proper for a lawful and good being to do. Clearly the GM had no idea what is appropriate behavior and furthermore is a moron for being so far off base. Hopefully you're not still playing with that group, or at least have a different GM.
This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.
However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".
I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.
Your GM is a jerk, and an idiot.
Little Inquisitor Fu-Fu, hopping through the forest, picking up the demons and bopping them on the head. And down came the EEEEEEVIL devil, and HE said, Little Inquisitor Fu-Fu, I don't like your attitude...
I smell a control freak DM.
Paladins can't have nice things, and apparently the evil guys can't either now.
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The character seemed to be acting, more or less, exactly like many of the Asmodeus worshiping Chelish Nobles.
There are just too many examples to list to let you know this to be true.
Maybe, you say Asmodeus was just trolling the PC, because the situation seemed to call for a reward, not a punishment.
Well, sounds like you have fun jerking players around. I suppose if they like it, more power to you.
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I still think the GM is a jerk, but to answer the OP's question which CW has made a legit point with in his last post, ask the GM, because he is so far off from how many of us run our games that nothing we say will most likely matter.
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I think the perceived slight on Asmodeus was barely there if at all, Asmodeus as an immortal being with a great deal of foresight will recognize that as long as the inquisitor serves him and ends up in hell there is really no need to punish him unless it damages the faith of Asmodeus in some meaningful way. Inquisitors are supposedly allowed a bit more leeway than other clergy members, that he might pay the price after the inquisitor is dead is of no concern now. Also do not abuse the divine retribution card too much, if you are punishing the faithful it stands to reason that you also intervene to aid them sometimes, why do gods allow things to happen at all to their priests and churches /
I would definately not punish him more, while Asmodeus might be inclined to disagree with his faithful assuming he serves them, the fact that the inquisitor was being watched at all is because he is impressed.
I'd send him a servitor like an imp as a reward tos how that Asmodeus can be good to him as well, ofcourse the imp is ultimately loyal to hell and Asmodeus (and reports to hell incase he strays)which you might hint at in a subtle manner on occasion. Punishment/reward, this way the player will actually enjoy the 'attention' he gets and will take care not to offend Asmodeus anymore.
I don't think the DM is a jerk, just confused.
We all make mistakes.
Maybe so. I will give him the benefit of the doubt of being new. That is the only way I can explain embracing your deity's portfolio getting you punished.
Book of Job?
Only if the above situation somehow involved Asmodeus and Cayden having a bet over the inquisitors response.
So, Asmodeus, the god of tyranny, pride and contracts, get upset because his priest is bossy with his group and does not doubt the power of his god, proudly proclaiming that mighty Asmodeus will provide for his own, and thus he need no trinkets and baubles?
Asmodeus expects flattery, but also that his followers adhere to his dogma, and represents his portfolios.
Don't listen to the naysayers, Nearyn. I seem to recall that something exactly like this happened to Moses in the desert. He struck a stone with his staff, and water poured forth so the Israelites could drink. Because HE took credit for it, God punished him.
You have precedent.
Yeah, I can't see what Asmodeus wouldn't like about this guy. Asmodeus is the god of pride and contracts and you think the Inquisitor has transgressed by being prideful and assuming his deal with his god is going to go as planned (contracted?).