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I posted earlier about a chaotic evil bard I wanted to run, and this Tuesday we're doing character creation. Problem was, as somebody pointed out to me, the concept tried to do too many things at once. But after some deliberation, I realized what I really want to go for was an Enchantment specialist. I know it is suboptimal compared to Conjurers or Transmuters, but it fits the flavor really well. Our DM said he'd prefer to stick to Core if possible; but may allow APG/UC/UM if we go over it with him.
So right now I'm thinking Crossblooded Fey/Infernal Sorcerer (+2 to all Enchantments, -2 to my highest save that can be offset with a Feat? Yeah, I can deal with that. They do get spells slower, but that could also be offset by the Human favored-class bonus from APG.) but there is a chance he might nix the idea. So, if that happens, two questions:
1) Which is the better bloodline for this build, Fey or Infernal? It seems like there are a LOT more Compulsion than Charm spells in the game, but I keep hearing Charm is a better sub-school. Why?
2) Is Multiclassing worth it? It seems like this is the sort of build that would synergize very well with Bard, but I'm not quite sure if that would just be a waste of spells and time/energy?
Charm is less aggressive. If you handle things carefully, nobody notices that you were anything other than friendly, whereas any survivors of domination are likely to be your enemy for life. Also, charm spells are usually lower-level, and good candidates for feats and traits that focus on one particular spell.
That said, there are some things which are totally immune to mind-affecting spells, and you need to make sure you have some way to deal with them, even if it's only buffing your friends while they deal with the issue.
See this post for more.
An enchanter depends on the highest DC's possible, so I would definitely not multi-class. Lower caster level, lower spell level, lower DC. You will need to focus all your feats on improving your DC, metamagic, bypassing spell resistance, and improving your defenses.
Charm subschool can be very tricky, and usually requires some time pre-combat to take full advantage of it. Compulsion spells are much better for use in the middle of combat. So, I would prefer Fey over Infernal, but don't discound Undead bloodline. It does not give you bonuses to your DC, but it does allow you to use mind-affecting spells against undead, which is an echanter's Achilles' heel.
The Serpentine Bloodline from the APG grants the following
Bloodline Arcana: Your powers of compulsion can affect even bestial creatures. Whenever you cast a mind-affecting or language-dependent spell, it affects animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids as if they were humanoids who understood your language.
that can vastly expand the use of your charm and compulsion spells.
Depending on how much material your GM is okay with... Lotus Geisha Bard gets free SF(Enchantment) and GSF. They get big bonuses to their Fascinate and Suggestion...
Kitsune also add +1 to the DC of all enchantment spells they use.
Could make a wonderful Enchanter/Supporter bard.
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Do Fey. Don't do crossblooded.
Have casting stat of 20 starting out, you do nothing on a successful save. Greater Spell Focus may be worth the feats, depends how much else you want.
Bouncing Spell and Persistent Spell, either by feat or metamagic rod, are essential to add to your arsenal. UM has a meta feat to use mind-affecting spells on undead, but it's got a spell level adjustment and undead tend to have stupidly high will saves (good will save progression combined with tending to have many hit dice), so you should probably just consider undead foes as out of bounds and just take other spells to deal with them. The level 2 Command Undead spell is very very nice, and though not enchantment or mind-affecting, is effectively very similar.
Witch can be a good class for this. You'll lack the +2 DC from Fey bloodline and (oddly) miss out on several of the best enchantment spells like Hideous Laughter despite that being your supposed schtick, but you can use evil eye to lower saves and have slumber as an at-will instant win compulsion effects, so if you expect many encounters in a day, witch can be better.
I have no idea why some people say charm is better. Charm spells are very limited in use and have less magnitude of effect. Perhaps they meant something more like, "most groups will have at least one PC who will not be ok with 'mind rape' type spells." Which is certainly a valid concern.
In any case, depending on class, the best compulsion spells available to you are:
Daze (NOT Mass or Daze Monster, though)
Hideous Laughter
Command
Murderous Command
Compel Hostility
Ill Omen
Hold Person / Monster / Mass
Suggestion
Confusion (NOT Lesser Confusion, though)
Terrible Remorse
Dominate Person / Monster
Irresistable Dance
Overwhelming Presence
Bolded ones being top picks for their given levels. I'm sure I'm leaving some out.
Keep an eye out for methods to lower a target's Will save, especially when going the Compulsion route. That's (almost) as good at raising your own DC.
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Lots are immune to mind-affecting. Those other spells can make up part of your "Plan B" so you're not useless in such fights.
You're a sorcerer, your strength is total flexibility within the boundaries of your spell knowledge. Expanding those boundaries widely to have many different options is a better way to go than having 10 extremely similar spells.
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Lots are immune to mind-affecting. Those other spells can make up part of your "Plan B" so you're not useless in such fights.
You're a sorcerer, your strength is total flexibility within the boundaries of your spell knowledge. Expanding those boundaries widely to have many different options is a better way to go than having 10 extremely similar spells.
Don't get me wrong; I wasn't going to go Enchantment at the expense of everythijg else. But the two supplemental themes to Fey and Infernal are Nature and Fire, respectively. Nature is a little too hippie-dippie for the concept and blasting spells are contrary to my goal. A more control-oriented bonus spell list would have fit nicely. Something that focused on party buffs, debuffs where appropriate and some field control not nature related. (Web instead of tangle, for instance.)
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So my GM and I tweaked it out a bit and have put together a pretty good enchanter class. Fey bloodline arcana and powers, with Diplomacy instead of Knowledge (Nature) as the bonus skill and the Witch's Enchantment Patron bonus spell list. Here's the build (We rolled 4d6 drop low and we all rolled spectacularly. The dice gods were with the group that day I guess):
Fayrre Dorian
Male Chaotic Evil Human Sorcerer, Level 3, Init +7, HP 20/20, Speed 30
AC 17, Touch 13, Flat-footed 14, Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +5, Base Attack Bonus 1
Sling (Bullets x 20) +4 (1d4-1, x2)
(+4 Armor, +3 Dex)
Abilities Str 8, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 20
Condition None
Feats Spell Focus: Ench., Grtr Spell Focus: Ench., Improved Initiative, Combat Casting
Cantrips (At Will) - Detect Magic, Read Magic, Daze, Mage Hand, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Message
Level 1 Spells (7/day) - Unnatural Lust, Hypnotism, Charm Person, Grease
Now,like I said, I knew going in it wouldn't be optimized. In combat I'll stick to debuffing, and buffing when debuffing is not an option. (Got a wand of Enlarge Person to use on our greatsword-weilding fighter, for instance.) But so far mercifully the campaign has been very role-play heavy and I'm having a blast with it. I figure it's for the best, anyway, since he's essentially playing party face (although only for his own ends, of course). Combat was never really my bag to begin with, so I'm happy to let the other characters shine there while I hide behind something and cast buffs.
Eventually the plan is to have the Enchantment be the focus, with his secondary focus being battlefield control and summoning the tertiary. (Spell Focus: Conj. I think would synergize nicely with this.)
And thanks StreamoftheSky for the spell suggestions. The only reason I decided not to take hideous laghter was because of the +4 will save caveat and the laughing touch Bloodline Power kind of made it seem redundant. But I'll definitely be taking those other ones. (Already took Daze)