Ok I've seen it posted a few times that enlarge person is a great buff for melee characters. What am I missing? I don't think it's terrible, but it doesn't strike me as great either. You get a +1 damage, size increase to the weapon, reach, but you take a hit on your AC.
I don't know, maybe those benefits alone are great, or maybe I'm just missing something.
Reach is very, very powerful. If something wants to attack the fighter, generally they'll have to eat an AoO first.
Reach and the extra damage from the size increase. If you already have a reach weapon, such as one of the many fine pole arms that canbe swung two handed, you get a 15' reach and it becomes very difficult for anyone to approach you without taking damage and maybe going down. Gravy if your extra reach let's you trip them before they get close enoughto attack.
If you are using a greatsword, that size increase is a whole extra d6. So that’s +1d6+1 to damage. Really significant at lower levels. Keep in mind it is a level 1 spell. It will be outshined at higher levels, but is good in comparison with other level 1 spells.
As an example a player with a Greatsword gains an average of 3.5points from the sword and 1pt damage from strength. All players would gain: +0melee, -2Ranged, -2AC, -1Reflex, +2CMB, +1CMD, size qualification for certain combat maneuvers, and...REACH.
The CMB/CMD is nice. As is size qualification to use Bull Rush, Overrun and Trip against huge creatures. The big bonus of course is reach. Many creatures will provoke attacks of opportunity when trying to get at you when you have reach. You can avoid some AOOs because you have reach. Combine with a reach weapon and you are totally scary. Enlarged, a reach weapon will control all squares at the 15-20foot range.
- Gauss
Yeah, I like enlarge person, but many of my friends won't let me cast it on them because of the -2 to AC. It's about style of play I think. For a first level spell it's very effective - even at high levels, say 10th, it's still pretty useful because it has a pretty long duration. Ten minutes (possibly twenty if you extend it) could be "the whole adventure".
BBT, why is Trip Lock impossible in PF? What's changed to prevent it?
A creature provokes when he rises from prone, but that AoO happens before it is no longer prone, so you cannot trip it again. You must wait until the creature stands up.
Ninja'd, damn I type slow.
This isn't a change, it has ever been thus. AoOs have always gone off before the action that provoked them then.
Anyway, that's not how trip locking works (since you could never do that.)
Basically, after standing, opponents are limited to a 5-ft. step after standing if they want to take another action, so as long as no one is within 10 ft, they can't attack anything. And if they take a move action, you just trip them again.
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Here's what's great: It's a 1st level spell that's useful from 1st to 20th level. A wand of it is cheap, if only a minute. A caster who can cast it on a fighter-type is even better.
There's just so few ways to increase size and (more importantly)reach, and one of them happens to be a 1st level spell that nearly everyone can cast.
Here's what's great: It's a 1st level spell that's useful from 1st to 20th level. A wand of it is cheap, if only a minute.
Just don't forget that One Round casting time. It applies to wands too.
It does not, however, apply to potions, which are pretty cheap.
Keep in mind that, if you have both a reach weapon and a non-reach weapon (i.e. Lucerne Hammer + Bite or IUS), you threaten from 5-10 ft with the non-reach and 15-20 ft with the reach. That is quite a kill zone.
Yowza, never thought of this before - my DM's gonna hate me/you guys for this (bwahahahaha)....
Also, there's a (untyped) +4 intimidate bonus for being larger than your target. For a Dazzling Display or Cornugon Smash build that's pretty handy.
If you have some means to make multiple 5ft steps enlarge person becomes even better because that way the opponent takes a Aoo every round if he wants to attack you.
One option to get multiple 5ft steps is ranger (skirmisher) with the surprise shift hunter trick.
Surprise Shift (Ex): The Ranger can move 5 feet as a swift action. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count as a 5-foot step.
Ah, I see what you meant. My apologies, I meant to say that if the creature gets up from prone it wastes a move action, and if it picks up its weapon, then that is its other move action, stopping it from doing anything else that round (save for swift and immediate actions).
That's what weapon cords have been invented for. Or locked gauntlets. Or backup weapons.
Granted it still does not allow them to get in range again, but then they either use acrobatics and hope they get through, use a ranged weapon or charge your wizard to show him what they think about him enlarging the fighter :)
Also remember, what's good for the goose is good for the ganter. You do this to often, and the GM will throw that tactic right back at you, and see how you like it.
Also remember, what's good for the goose is good for the ganter. You do this to often, and the GM will throw that tactic right back at you, and see how you like it.
Of course. The look on the players' faces when a group of 'them's just orcs with polearms and greataxes' suddenly turns into a group of large orcs with polearms and greataxes thanks to a single mass enlarge person was... priceless.
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Ah, I see what you meant. My apologies, I meant to say that if the creature gets up from prone it wastes a move action, and if it picks up its weapon, then that is its other move action, stopping it from doing anything else that round (save for swift and immediate actions).That's what weapon cords have been invented for. Or locked gauntlets. Or backup weapons.
Granted it still does not allow them to get in range again, but then they either use acrobatics and hope they get through, use a ranged weapon or charge your wizard to show him what they think about him enlarging the fighter :)
Also remember, what's good for the goose is good for the ganter. You do this to often, and the GM will throw that tactic right back at you, and see how you like it.
Do you drop your weapon when tripped? I didn't think you did...
Do you drop your weapon when tripped? I didn't think you did...Ah, I see what you meant. My apologies, I meant to say that if the creature gets up from prone it wastes a move action, and if it picks up its weapon, then that is its other move action, stopping it from doing anything else that round (save for swift and immediate actions).That's what weapon cords have been invented for. Or locked gauntlets. Or backup weapons.
Granted it still does not allow them to get in range again, but then they either use acrobatics and hope they get through, use a ranged weapon or charge your wizard to show him what they think about him enlarging the fighter :)
Also remember, what's good for the goose is good for the ganter. You do this to often, and the GM will throw that tactic right back at you, and see how you like it.
No, but if you get disarmed as well, like in cmastah's example, then you do.
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Enlarge Person in a potion is just the most beautiful thing though. Drops the casting time down to a standard action if it's in hand).
For me the greatest joy with this spell is using it to Disarm players. You just reach out and snatch their +5 swords of doom out of their hands and beat them to death with their own weapons. It's best if you do it as an AoO in the first round when they charge your BBEG.
You'll never know true joy until you've seen that look of utter disbelief in a players face when you take their favorite toy away from em.
(I'm not a nice GM most of the time)
But really the best use of this spell is for the various combat maneuvers no one ever uses. Using a 50GP potion of enlarge is like getting ALL the Improved Maneuver feats for free.
That wizard trying to cast a nasty spell on you? Use your 10' reach to steal his spell component pouch (auto stops him from casting 90% of his spells for the rest of the fight)
That Magus has that evil shocking grasp enhanced rapier coming at you? Disarm him and drop the sword behind you (free action) and watch him cry (especially if he's a bladebound or Kensai one)
But if you REALLY want to see something funny take that Archers bow from him and pocket the bowstring. It's so amusing when they stand there crying.
Oh wait, you wanted to know what good it is for players?? That's just crazy talk.
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Bladebound Magus can totally summon the weapon back to their hand for an Arcane Point.
Just nitpicking, you may ignore me.
So your saying I can do my favorite trick to them over and over and over again AND it costs THEM finite resources to do it. That makes it even better.
(I say this after I disarmed such a magus 3 times last year with this trick. Would have kept doing it but he ran out of arcane points and his tears were so delicious)|
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Reach and the extra damage from the size increase. If you already have a reach weapon, such as one of the many fine pole arms that canbe swung two handed, you get a 15' reach and it becomes very difficult for anyone to approach you without taking damage and maybe going down. Gravy if your extra reach let's you trip them before they get close enoughto attack.
On my phone so it's difficult to pull up the exact reference (it's in the equipment section under reach weapons) but a Large biped with a reach weapon actually threatens out at the 15' and 20' squares (but NOT 5' or 10'). A small creature made medium by enlarge person still uses the standard 10' reach of the weapon.
Looking down your pants and not feeling inadequate, for 1 minute/lv.