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Here is an Idea I've been working on for a skill based Healing system.
Let me make a few statement right off:
-This system is NOT INTENDED to replace clerical magic.
-This system is NOT INTENDED to be better than clerical magic.
-This system is being designed as an alternative healing mechanic that would actually make the Heal do something useful.
-This system is being designed for ideas around healing that are not magic based. IE: skilled healers like doctors, field medics, ect.
The basis of my Idea stems from casting spells off a scroll and the mechanics presented under "use magical device".
here is the work I've done so far.
Skill Based Healing:
Relevant Skill: Heal.
Relevant ability: Wisdom.
This would be added to the Heal skill description.
Recreating a Conjuration (Healing) spell.
-DC = 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to recreate.
-Your Caster level for the purposes of recreating a conjuration (healing) spell is equal to your ranks in the Heal skill.
-Each use expends 2 uses from your Healers Kit. You suffer a -2 penalty on your Heal check for each use of the Healers kit that you lack.
-The amount of time (aka the action required) used is equal to the casting time of the Conjuration (Healing) spell that is being replicated.
-Unlike casting a spell, use of this skill is classified as an extraordinary ability.
Conjuration (Healing) spells that can be recreated through use of this skill.
Cure Light Wounds DC 21 (1 uses)
Cure Moderate Wounds DC 23 (3 uses)
Remove Paralysis DC 23 (3 uses)
Lesser Restoration DC 23 (3 uses)
Cure Serious Wounds DC 25 (5 uses)
Remove Blindness/Deafness DC 25 (5 uses)
Remove Disease DC 25 (5 uses)
Cure Critical Wounds DC 27 (7 uses)
Neutralize Poison DC 27 (7 uses)
Restoration DC 27 (7 uses)
Breath of Life DC 29 (9 uses)
Raise the Dead DC 29 (9 uses)
Heal DC 31 (1 Healers Kit).
-A failed check still consumes the listed number of uses from the Healers kit.
Possible Feat:
Medical Training.
-Description: You have spent time studying the Anatomy of Humanoids and now understand how to better heal wounds with bandages, medicine, and different techniques.
-Benefit: You may use the Heal skill to recreate the following spells from the Conjuration (Healing) list: (see heal skill aka insert above table here). The DC to recreate these Conjuration (Healing) spells is equal to 20 + the minimum caster level of the spell you are trying to recreate. Your caster level for the purposes of any caster level based variables of these conjuration (healing) spells is equal to the number of ranks in the Heal skill you possess. Each use of the heal skill that you use to recreate the spells listed above also consumes an number of uses from your healer's kit. You may still attempt to use the Heal skill to recreate the effect of a conjuration (healing) spell but you suffer a -2 penalty to your Heal skill check for each use of the Healers kit that you lack. Unlike casting a spell, using your Healing skill in this fashion is classified as an extraordinary ability.
Feed back will be appreciated.
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Looks very interesting. Not sure about the balance aspect, but definitely something I'm interested in.
Edit:One thing I've just thought of is that once you have a +13 modifier, fairly easily reached, you essentially have unlimited CLWs/day, with no waiting period. Taking 10 results in a 23, just enough to cast CLW. SAme goes with the other spells, only with higher mods.
Looks very interesting. Not sure about the balance aspect, but definitely something I'm interested in.
Edit:One thing I've just thought of is that once you have a +13 modifier, fairly easily reached, you essentially have unlimited CLWs/day, with no waiting period. Taking 10 results in a 23, just enough to cast CLW. SAme goes with the other spells, only with higher mods.
An Idea to control this may just be as simple as limiting your use of this skills option to: You may only try to recreate a spell from the Conjuration (Healing) list a number of times per day equal to your Ranks in Heal + your Wisdom modifier.
A more severe method may simply be limiting it like they limit the use of Treat Deadly Wounds where a creature can only benefit ONCE within 24 hours from a medical recreation of the Conjuration (Healing) spell.
Like I said, work in progress. Please point out problems and make suggestions.
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I think Ranks+Wisdom modifier will be much better. Treat Deadly Wounds-style limiting, I think, is a bit too extreme, however.
With Ranks+Wisdom, the mod will advance slowly enough that they won't be advancing to new Cure spells every other level for free, but they'll be able to put out substantial healing. As a player, I'd actually be fairly conservative with it. Considering the different types of conditions it can heal, this may be a sort of in-case-of-emergency thing, or at least that's what it seems to me. And then, at the end of the adventuring day, you blow the rest of your uses, as long as you don't need healer's kit uses.
I still feel it needs to be a bit more balanced, but I'm not sure how, or even why for that matter. I entirely support the idea of non-magical healing, though. I'll be following this thread.
I've been lookin for something like this for the longest time. I salute you, good sir.
Ultimately I'm considering using these ideas to make a non-magical based Healer.
I'm still trying to decide if I want it to be a separate base class or if I want it to be an archetype of some existing class. The feat was suggested in case you'd like to use these ideas but require some commitment from the PC in order to get more out of the healing skill (representing some type of medical training).
Right now the question is (as pointed out above) how often can someone use the skill to heal.
Ranks in Heal + Wisdom Modifier seems like a good idea. At most a 1st level character will have between 5 to 6 uses. (assuming 1 rank in heal with an 18 or 20 Wisdom). At least at level 20 they will have a minimum of 20 uses (20 ranks in Heal skill).
This seems reasonable to me as a Cleric at level 20 could theoretically have 45 healing spells ( 4 base spells + 1 domain spell) no counting bonus spells.
It should be worth noting that this idea has not yet been play tested.
So with that being said feel free to experiment and report back with what you find. At this point I personally feel that is the only way we are going to find out if this system is over powered or under powered.
Might take a look at the Kirthfinder homebrew stuff the healing skill in it covers a good number of uses without over shadowing magical healing.
I would include a greater gp cost and also additional time. Consider the cost of healing potions and the time it takes to prepare them.
If we assume the average healing of a cure light wounds potion is 5 hp, then that comes to 10 gp per hp. Im not saying it needs to be the same, but you're performing something that simulates magic.
If you're worried about how many times this could be used in a day, then applying a time requirement would fix that, perhaps 1 hour flat or using some formula based on the simulated spell or caster level. Or, use something like the time for the craft skill, so that "quick crafting" can be done.
I like this idea very much.
I guess the statement about "expending 2 uses of a healer's kit" is of an older version and you can't edit it anymore.
(Thanks to this stupid board software...)
I'm not so sure if "Raise Dead" is appropriate to the list.
Breath of Life is great since you can revive a person within only 1 round.
Raise dead allows to revive someone who died DAYS ago.
Not very fitting/likely, right?
One more thing. How about:
Required Heal ranks to recreate a spell is equal to the minimum caster level.
Sure, this is already limited by the higher DCs, but still a valid limitation I'd say.
My main issue with this is that, as I take it currently to be described, it allows a completely mundane approach for instantly healing wounds, which I think is rather miraculous. Flavor wise I don't think any application of non-magical medicine should have the effect of instantly closing and healing wounds, we certainly have not found any such method in real life yet. However, if the game-world had many magical plants I could see allowing a heal check to identify(but not necessarily find) and know how to use the ones that may be used to imitate healing spells as above. But I certainly would not want those plants to work in an anti-magic field, as a good part of the reason to cast such a field would probably be to inhibit instant healing.
I think that I should clarify that this is not meant to be a gritty, realistic, healing system either. I understand what you are getting at. There is are reasons why I'm not trying that approach. Mainly because Pathfinder/D&D still remains a game rooted in some type of fantasy and that the mechanics of this game are an abstract representation of damage. Therefore for a system to even be viable (and by viable I mean not just useable but something that people want to use) it must at least be able to offer something comparable to what is already in use.
The Healing skill mechanic as it is written in pathfinder is a good one. It represents as it is just how long it takes for someone to heal up without magic. There's a reason no one uses it. And that is because magic is just that much more convenient.
The suggestion I'm making is to come up with a mechanic for a type of magical/medicinal healing or magical/wound treatment that is not so closely tied to divine power.
In other words still trying to offer something that is viable in play as an effective wound treatment system. Call it magic medicine or whatever. Its still suppose to have a chance of failure, which is one of the distinctions between divine power and this new form of healing.
But it is in no way intended to replicate a real world gritty healing system.
If you're looking for some abstract rules like that I would highly recommend checking the D20 Modern "Treat Injury" skill and possibly meshing it with the current heal skill rules.
Hope that helps clear up the direction I'm looking to move in with this.
I guess the statement about "expending 2 uses of a healer's kit" is of an older version and you can't edit it anymore.
(Thanks to this stupid board software...)
yes, as you can see, the more you try and heal the more it takes out of your healers kit.
I'm not so sure if "Raise Dead" is appropriate to the list.
This one will probably have to come off the list.
One more thing. How about:Required Heal ranks to recreate a spell is equal to the minimum caster level.
Sure, this is already limited by the higher DCs, but still a valid limitation I'd say.
I didn't want to do that for a simple reason. One of the advantages of using the system this way (with the Heal skill) is that a player can attempt to do something that with Magic they normally couldn't.
With magic if you can't cast 2nd level spells then that's it, you can't cast 2nd level spells. period. But with this, a Healer can at least try to replicate the effects of a higher level healing spell. They can try to exceed the "safety zone' of what they could accomplish with their skill level.
Its Higher risk for higher reward. Odds are they won't be able to do it, but there's a difference between being unable to do it, and being unlikely to pull it off.
Think of it in cinematic/game terms. You have a very young, very inexperienced doctor. The treatment they can safely administer is well within their means in terms of skill but its not enough. So they elect to try something that may not work, but if it does, will fix the situation.
Hope that makes sense.
I would include a greater gp cost and also additional time. Consider the cost of healing potions and the time it takes to prepare them.
If we assume the average healing of a cure light wounds potion is 5 hp, then that comes to 10 gp per hp. Im not saying it needs to be the same, but you're performing something that simulates magic.
If you're worried about how many times this could be used in a day, then applying a time requirement would fix that, perhaps 1 hour flat or using some formula based on the simulated spell or caster level. Or, use something like the time for the craft skill, so that "quick crafting" can be done.
I think the need for a Healers kit (which is 50gp) helps to balance out the cost to some degree. As you can see the more powerful the spell, the more it takes out of your Healer's kit. And failure still costs you uses. Sure after a certain point you don't need the Healers kit to perform a cure light wounds, but you still only have a limited number of uses per day after which its back to regular Healing skill rules.
I like the idea of only being able to use this a number of times per day equal to your Healing skill rank + wisdom modifier.
This limitation on how often you can use these techniques will hopefully force the player to try and use the most efficient technique for healing the wounds. This will hopefully translate into the need to keep more Healing kits on hand.
Sure for some of the lower level techniques once you have enough skill ranks you can try and ignore the need for the healers kit, but you have to remember its not just a -2 penalty if you don't have the kit. Its a -2 penalty for EVERY USE OF THE KIT THAT YOU LACK. That makes risking the absence of the Healers kit on some of the better techniques not quite as good of an idea as it is with the lower ones. And the higher level techniques burn through your healing kits faster. If you try to perform a technique that replicates a HEAL spell its going to consume 1 whole kit.
I know the Healing kit is only 50gp but now multiply the cost of this kit by 10 (so that you have enough to last you a trip) now we're up to 500gp And that would only get you 10 uses of the HEAL spell assuming that you don't have any unfortunate rolls, as one failure burns out 1 kit.
Its a valid point on cost. One that I feel play testing will prove whether it is too much, or too little.
You may want to consider limited it to no more than once per a creature per a day. Then you can add a feat that lets you use it more than once per a day on any particular creature.
Also consider increasing the time required. Non-magical healing should take time. Perhaps 1 minute/caster level of effect? The time could be shortened by increasing the DC.
I like the attempt. I think we all want a better use for the Heal skill.
I would suggest checking out the Treat Injury skill from d20 Modern, and its Surgery application.
But non-magical healing would be great, especially for parties that lack primary (or even secondary) healers (alchemists, bards, clerics, druids, inquisitors, oracles, paladins, rangers, witches).
How does that work for the non d20 modern fluent amoung us? :)I would suggest checking out the Treat Injury skill from d20 Modern, and its Surgery application.
But non-magical healing would be great, especially for parties that lack primary (or even secondary) healers (alchemists, bards, clerics, druids, inquisitors, oracles, paladins, rangers, witches).
Treat Injury (Wis)
Check: The DC and effect depend on the task attempted.
Long-Term Care (DC 15): With a medical kit, the successful application of this skill allows a patient to recover hit points and ability points lost to temporary damage at an advanced rate—3 hit points per character level or 3 ability points restored per day of complete rest. A new check is made each day; on a failed check, recovery occurs at the normal rate for that day of rest and care.
A character can tend up to as many patients as he or she has ranks in the skill. The patients need complete bed rest (doing nothing all day). The character needs to devote at least ½ hour of the day to each patient the character is caring for.
Restore Hit Points (DC 15): With a medical kit, if a character has lost hit points, the character can restore some of them. A successful check, as a full-round action, restores 1d4 hit points. The number restored can never exceed the character’s full normal total of hit points. This application of the skill can be used successfully on a character only once per day.
Revive Dazed, Stunned, or Unconscious Character (DC 15): With a first aid kit, the character can remove the dazed, stunned, or unconscious condition from a character. This check is an attack action.
A successful check removes the dazed, stunned, or unconscious condition from an affected character. The character can’t revive an unconscious character who is at –1 hit points or lower without first stabilizing the character.
Stabilize Dying Character (DC 15): With a medical kit, a character can tend to a character who is dying. As an attack action, a successful Treat Injury check stabilizes another character. The stabilized character regains no hit points, but he or she stops losing them. The character must have a medical kit to stabilize a dying character.
Surgery (DC 20): With a surgery kit, a character can conduct field surgery. This application of the Treat Injury skill carries a –4 penalty, which can be negated with the Surgery feat. Surgery requires 1d4 hours; if the patient is at negative hit points, add an additional hour for every point below 0 the patient has fallen.
Surgery restores 1d6 hit points for every character level of the patient (up to the patient’s full normal total of hit points) with a successful skill check. Surgery can only be used successfully on a character once in a 24-hour period. A character who undergoes surgery is fatigued for 24 hours, minus 2 hours for every point above the DC the surgeon achieves. The period of fatigue can never be reduced below 6 hours in this fashion.
Treat Disease (DC 15): A character can tend to a character infected with a treatable disease. Every time the diseased character makes a saving throw against disease effects (after the initial contamination), the treating character first makes a Treat Injury check to help the diseased character fend off secondary damage. This activity takes 10 minutes. If the treating character’s check succeeds, the treating character provides a bonus on the diseased character’s saving throw equal to his or her ranks in this skill.
Treat Poison (DC 15): A character can tend to a poisoned character. When a poisoned character makes a saving throw against a poison’s secondary effect, the treating character first makes a Treat Injury check as an attack action. If the treating character’s check succeeds, the character provides a bonus on the poisoned character’s saving throw equal to his or her ranks in this skill.
Try Again?: Yes, for restoring hit points, reviving dazed, stunned, or unconscious characters, stabilizing dying characters, and surgery. No, for all other uses of the skill.
Special: The Surgery feat gives a character the extra training he or she needs to use Treat Injury to help a wounded character by means of an operation.
A character can take 10 when making a Treat Injury check. A character can take 20 only when restoring hit points or attempting to revive dazed, stunned, or unconscious characters.
Long-term care, restoring hit points, treating disease, treating poison, or stabilizing a dying character requires a medical kit. Reviving a dazed, stunned, or unconscious characters requires either a first aid kit or a medical kit. Surgery requires a surgery kit. If the character does not have the appropriate kit, he or she takes a –4 penalty on the check.
A character can use the Treat Injury skill on his or herself only to restore hit points, treat disease, or treat poison. The character takes a –5 penalty on your check any time he or she treats his or herself.
A character with the Medical Expert feat gets a +2 bonus on all Treat Injury checks.
Time: Treat Injury checks take different amounts of time based on the task at hand, as described above.
Link: http://www.d20resources.com/modern.d20.srd/skills/treat.injury.php
