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I was curious which of the paizo adventure paths youall would suggest for a group that has been playing home-created campaigns for a while, but is looking into doing their first actual path?
There are about 5 (up to 6 PC's) of us with varying tastes from a rule lawer to a skilled "face" talker to the background/world lore nut.
Can't go wrong with RotRL (though it does require some conversion to run with PF). Hardcover's coming out soon too.
RotRL is a classic though it might be better to wait for the hardcover, pathfinderized version to come out. Less conversion work, plus fancy expansion materials.
Have you considered Kingmaker? Great path, though the kingdom management aspects can be troublesome at times.
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One of my groups is having a blast with Carrion Crown. I am running it currently half way through there about. Its a tour de horror around Ustalav. It has lots of investigating and interesting combats.
I am also a player in a kingmaker game. Kingmaker is more sandbox. The PCs get to forge their own kingdom. Some people have been critical of the combats saying the workday is too lite. Others dont like the sandbox approach. For my group we are having a blast. Everyother session is solid hours of role play with few combats. I dont think it has to be that way but its the way its playing out for us.
One question, have you downloaded any of the free players guides? Maybe start there and look for the AP that might best fit your group.
I think the concept of Jade regent sux.
Free XP for high Charisma stat.
With that you can as well got back and play D&D first when the rogue got xp for looting gold.
Carrion crown is not bad but not good either. Kingmaker absolutely rocks.
I would have loved to play legacy of fire but nobody wanted to GM it until I didn't have the time for an additional game.
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I think the concept of Jade regent sux.
Free XP for high Charisma stat.
And combat is free XP for a high Strength stat. Only not.
I haven't read through the JR mechanics (still hoping to maybe play it), but as I understand it, you get XP by completing social challenges with good social stats...much as you might through combat with good combat stats. The horror. The mechanics might be poorly implemented (I don't know details, as mentioned), but the concept is perfectly viable.
And combat is free XP for a high Strength stat. Only not.
I haven't read through the JR mechanics (still hoping to maybe play it), but as I understand it, you get XP by completing social challenges with good social stats...much as you might through combat with good combat stats. The horror. The mechanics might be poorly implemented (I don't know details, as mentioned), but the concept is perfectly viable.
For the record, I think the issue here is individual vs group benefit. In a combat scenario, everyone gets the same XP regardless of who did the most damage. In Jade Regent's Relationship/Romance system, characters with high Intimidate or Diplomacy checks could get significant individual XP rewards, as well as unique bonuses from the various NPCs. I don't really have a problem with this, but I could see someone being upset about it.
While it definitely deserves mention as a great path, I wouldn't recommend Jade Regent for a first AP. The Caravan subsystem doesn't work, requiring a complete reworking of the 3rd adventure. There is a massive caste of NPCs to handle, as well as quite a few other unique subsystems scattered throughout. It isn't an insurmountable obstacle, and I can't emphasize enough how much I like the adventures, but it might be a bit much for a GM who is still getting used to the format.
i'd cast my vote for kingmaker as well. starts off slow, you've got downtime between kingdom turns for item manufacture and skullduggery. plus you move at your own pace.
good for first time players not familiar with the whole adventure path thing.
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Hey guys, i'm in a similar boat as the OP. My group is long time homebrew campaigns and now I'm looking to run an AP. The thing is my group enjoys challenging games, as such I know kingmaker is out.
So i was looking at RotRL or carrion crown and was wondering how hard you guys would rate these adventure paths, both combat and rp wise.
I would look into skull's and shackles but one of the gm's already has a pirate themed world and i don't want to step on their toes.
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By all accounts RotRL is vicious. I haven't actually heard a lot about the difficulty level of Carrion Crown.
Based on Legacy of Fire and Serpent's Skull (the two I've looked over in detail) level of difficulty is often very dependent on how smart the PCs are.
I mean, the APs do things like set up a tribe of enemies with a specific number of members, then outline their schedule for the GM...and leave it up to the players what to do about said tribe. So a frontal assault might be suicide while quietly killing a few at a time might be very workable.
This is by no means always the case, and just one example situation, but it's the kind of thing that might show up.
They're set up as an organic world, not just a series of encounters, y'know? It's one of the things I really like about the APs, actually.
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Just say no to carion crown.Why so?
I've mostly heard good things (well, apparently the trust subsystem in the first module sucks if played as written, and a lot of the treasure is in consumables, but aside from that I've heard good things and neither of those are crippling flaws or anything).
Book 1 was OK, book 2 is horrible. Maybe it will improve once we encounter the actual bad guy, maps actually fit the enemies, things start to make sense, motivation hooks are supplied befor we choose to do them, and we can influence the plot. At the moment it feels like a hack and slash to get enough xp and levels to actually matter,so why didn't we make lvl 15s and just play the last mod.
Can't go wrong with RotRL (though it does require some conversion to run with PF). Hardcover's coming out soon too.
I heartily agree. It's got a great combination of roleplaying, mystery, investigation, horror, and combat. I haven't run any other PF adventure paths, but it's hard to go wrong with this one.
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I'm really enjoying GMing Carrion Crown, though I've done a little customization to the plot based on suggestions on these boards (I'm halfway through Book 3). Book 2 can be hard to GM, so I don't fault GeneticDrift for not enjoying it; perhaps his GM could have run it better. Book 1 is really a good adventure, though.
If your group is experienced role-players, you might like Kingmaker a lot.
If you're looking for a generally-acknowledged classic, Rise of the Runelords is a good bet. Especially if you can wait for the hardcover Anniversary Edition updated to the Pathfinder system that coming out in July.
A far as difficulty goes:
Generally speaking, it's pretty easy for a good GM to increase the difficulty level to match his players' desires. Just add in more monsters or more encounters per day.
But as to the APs I've mentioned:
Kingmaker puts a lot of power to determine pacing in the players' hands, so a smart/cautious party can have a pretty easy time. The GM will need to keep this in mind and adjust accordingly.
Carrion Crown depends a lot on your party makeup. Paladins and Clerics will tend to walk through parts of it (I actually banned clerics and paladins in my game). Arcane casters and squishy characters will have a harder time. There are a lot of unusual challenges that require creative solutions.
Runelords famously has old-school high difficulty.
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Tier 1: CotCT, RotRL, KM
Tier 2: CC, LoF, JR
Tier 3: SS, CoT
Tier 4: SD
This is pretty much my estimation of things as well.
If you want easy to run Curse of the Crimson Throne and Rise of the Runelords are best.
If you want some more complexity go with Kingmaker, it still lets you stretch your homebrew muscles.
I haven't read Carrion Crown since I'll be playing in it, and I'm currently playing in Legacy of Fire (up to book 3) so far it's been hella fun.
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Ok so the way you guys are pointing me RotRL, which i think sounds amazing. If i do choose to run this, which would be before the hardcover comes out, how much work will it be to convert everything to pathfinder?
also, I still like the feel carrion crown would give, but if its a dud i'll sway away from it.
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Ok so the way you guys are pointing me RotRL, which i think sounds amazing. If i do choose to run this, which would be before the hardcover comes out, how much work will it be to convert everything to pathfinder?
Well, a lot of people have already done a lot of conversion work (available various places online) and, depending on how fast and often you play, you might only need to do the first couple (as the hardcover would be out then).
Having done some of this with Legacy of Fire, I'll note that most of the conversion work is specialty monsters and NPCs, and purely mechanical. The plots all pretty much still work, the traps work, and the 'stock' monsters all have Pathfinder versions, so only the NPCs and heavily specialized monsters need real conversions.
also, I still like the feel carrion crown would give, but if its a dud i'll sway away from it.
If your contention that Carrion Crown is a "dud" is based on a single poster's opinion, I encourage you to do a bit more research. The book that one guy thinks was just "OK" also won an Ennie, several others here recommended it, and another poster in this thread said his group was "having a blast" so, ya' know, take opinions for what they're worth. Do some research to see if it is a proper fit for your group. Read the product descriptions and look up some solid reviews before you take one guy's word for it and label it a "dud" yourself.
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O ya by no means was i going to base that judgement off of one person, I was hoping to get a little more insight on it.
ultimately I will probably let my players decide between the two. They sound different enough that it should spark some good converstation. I have read all of the first book for CC and it sounds so much fun. I will read this second one and get my own opinion of it here in the next week or so.
Yeah, my group is loving Carrion Crown and it may also be one of the easier ones to DM of the recent adventure paths. The one to avoid for a new DM is Serpent's Skull, which needs a lot of work in the middle.
I am playing Carrion Crown and finished book 4, and so far we have enjoyed it. Book 3 was probably my least favorite, but as an overall AP it is very fun.
I am also playing CotCT and am in the middle of book 4, this one might be my favorite because the story is really immersive and excellently crafted.
I am GMing Serpent Skull, and am about to GM book 3 in a week or so. It does require a bit of GM work, however the GM threads on these boards are an incredibly useful aid.
The only AP our group didn't adapt to was Kingmaker, as unfortunately, our GM didn't have really any free time to input story arches. It was too much a sandbox for our taste.
I have also read Book 1 of Skulls and Shackles to eventually GM that AP, and I can tell you that it looks incredibly fun, if the pirate life is for you!
I'm probably going to cop a bit of flak for this, but I'm going to go against the majority and say RotRL wasn't that great. Sure the first two adventures are great, but the third is *really* disconnected from them (though still pretty good), and the fourth and fifth are disconnected again and both largely dungeon crawls. If you like that kind of thing, they're well done, but after the first two adventures the rest of the campaign was a real let down for us.
CotCT is much better, though again suffers from disconnected fourth and fifth adventures (and a very - not well done IMO - dungeon crawl fifth adventure).
On the whole, I'd prefer CotCT to RotRLJR and JR to either (caravan mechanics difficulties aside).
Can't comment on KM or CC as a whole, because I played in the first (and only got up to the end of the third adventure) and am currently playing in the second.
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Just say no to carion crown.Why so?
I've mostly heard good things (well, apparently the trust subsystem in the first module sucks if played as written, and a lot of the treasure is in consumables, but aside from that I've heard good things and neither of those are crippling flaws or anything).
Book 1 was OK, book 2 is horrible. Maybe it will improve once we encounter the actual bad guy, maps actually fit the enemies, things start to make sense, motivation hooks are supplied befor we choose to do them, and we can influence the plot. At the moment it feels like a hack and slash to get enough xp and levels to actually matter,so why didn't we make lvl 15s and just play the last mod.
Not my experience at all. Book 2 was absolutely brilliant, best of the bunch.
A really good AP IMHO.
